Bigman’s Training Reports

[Floating Doughnut]

Pushing forward he would be a difficult match up for tagger given his overhead qualities

In context with the discussion it was like a veiled threat, tag him and he will drag you forward and kick goals, or back and he will intercept. Not many could hold him both ways.

 

[1970crow]

Nope. Quoted you correctly. You said a 2 time All Australian and 3 time B&F winner is a solid B+ player.

Now you are saying he is closer to an A grade than B+ grade player?

What's the relevance of his AAs to the discussion on where he sits currently as a midfielder. What is relevant is that he's made the squad 2 of the 3.5 years he's played as a mid. My view is that he's an elite ball winner but lacks any real damage, A, B+, A-, doesn't really matter. If he did more damage with ball in hand he'd be elite.

 

[Golumless]

There are lots of star players who have played hybrid roles

Sure, but for it to work properly, they can't be a priority. More a response to an over-flow in a sector after your cornerstones are bedded in.

In theory that should be the perfect combo yet it's when we lose the 50/50 contest that we seem to get burned.

You do have to remember that outright losing a 50/50 contest is one of the more dangerous things to occur to a defensive unit, as much like a turnover, its a period with an offensive team streaming forward towards a disorganised defence. So, it's not particularly surprising we get burned here when it does occur. It's why those power midfielders who can burst from stoppages are so in vogue in this era.

It also doesn't help we're a team which has our one-wood being we want to force the game on the outside and are set up in a manner to maximise our intercepting power - a strategy that is quite vulnerable to a team who able to run and spread from a contest. Unfortunately the by-product of specialisation is that its counter is also strengthened.

Whilst I agree with this, I can't figure out why Dawson/Laird/Crouch don't work well.

That's because it, for the most part, worked. Take a quick and dirty comparison of Adelaides last 5 games v Port, Sydney, Brisbane, Gold Coast and West Coast - so a good cross-section of the leagues quality - and compare it to the year (from AFL Team Statistics). As a note, I'm not particularly worried about West Coast due to the presence of Port and Brisbane who are some of the genuine powerhouses on the inside.

Now it's worth noting we're a team who generates a lot of stoppages. It's an unfortunate by-product of being a team who wants to generate a lot of intercepts as turnovers happen under pressure - ditto we're a team who invites more pressure by being so dangerous on the outside. Now throughout the year we we were a ~50% win rate team when it came to clearances, typically winning 40 (12.4 CC, 27.6 SC) and losing 40.1 (12.6 CC and 27.5 SC). The last five games? We shot that up to a 55% win rate, winning 42.6 clearances (12.6 CC and 30SC) whilst only losing 34.6 (11 CC and 23.6 SC). Ground ball gets? We went from a team that won 50.3% of the ground balls to be won (97.8 to 96.6) to one that won 51.5% of them (100.4 to 94.8). On the inside, we saw some considerable gains once Crouch got included.

The other thing to note is meters gained against disposal, it went from 17 m/d to 17.8 m/d in this time frame, meaning opposition are gaining more territory per disposal - ergo taking more risks to move the ball and not running it in waves as often. As a result our intercept rate went up from 69.6 a game to 71 a game. Conversely our expected conceded score on defence went down from 78.5 to 73.9 so despite us inducing more risks, we were better off defensively. Offensively we shot up from an expected score of 90.1 to 105.5 with us not capitalising on our chances being what killed us in the end.

And I doubt I'll ever make a better argument as to how much of a wasted season 2023 was.

 

[cleanhands]

Sure, but for it to properly work, they can't be a priority. More a response to an over-flow in a sector after your cornerstones are bedded in.



You do have to remember that outright losing a 50/50 contest is one of the more dangerous things to occur to a defensive unit, as much like a turnover, its a period with an offensive team streaming forward towards a disorganised defence. So, it's not particularly surprising we get burned here when it does occur. It's why those power midfielders who can burst from stoppages are so in vogue in this era.

It also doesn't help we're a team which has our one-wood being we want to force the game on the outside and are set up in a manner to maximise our intercepting power - a strategy that is quite vulnerable to a team who able to run and spread from a contest. Unfortunately the by-product of specialisation is that its counter is also strengthened.



That's because it, for the most part, worked. Take a quick and dirty comparison of Adelaides last 5 games v Port, Sydney, Brisbane, Gold Coast and West Coast - so a good cross-section of the leagues quality - and compare it to the year (from AFL Team Statistics). As a note, I'm not particularly worried about West Coast due to the presence of Port and Brisbane who are some of the genuine powerhouses on the inside.

Now it's worth noting we're a team who generates a lot of stoppages. It's an unfortunate by-product of being a team who wants to generate a lot of intercepts as turnovers happen under pressure - ditto we're a team who invites more pressure by being so dangerous on the outside. Now throughout the year we we were a ~50% win rate team when it came to clearances, typically winning 40 (12.4 CC, 27.6 SC) and losing 40.1 (12.6 CC and 27.5 SC). The last five games? We shot that up to a 55% win rate, winning 42.6 clearances (12.6 CC and 30SC) whilst only losing 34.6 (11 CC and 23.6 SC). Ground ball gets? We went from a team that won 50.3% of the ground balls to be won (97.8 to 96.6) to one that won 51.5% of them (100.4 to 94.8). On the inside, we saw some considerable gains once Crouch got included.

The other thing to note is meters gained against disposal, it went from 17 m/d to 17.8 m/d in this time frame, meaning opposition are gaining more territory per disposal - ergo taking more risks to move the ball and not running it in waves as often. As a result our intercept rate went up from 69.6 a game to 71 a game. Conversely our expected conceded score on defence went down from 78.5 to 73.9 so despite us inducing more risks, we're better off defensively. Offensively we shot up from an expected score of 90.1 to 105.5 with us not capitalising on our chances being what killed us in the end.

What a wasted season.

 

[Tex Danger]

Whilst I agree with this, I can't figure out why Dawson/Laird/Crouch don't work well.

Dawson is the inside/outside big bodied midfielder with a killer disposal. Laird is quick, can tackle and racks it up and Crouch is in the guts dish it out.

In theory that should be the perfect combo yet it's when we lose the 50/50 contest that we seem to get burned.

Because for some reason people bunch Dawson in with the slow, one dimensional inside mid group rather than seeing him as the dynamic midfielder in the mix

 

[Faaarrk]

Because for some reason people bunch Dawson in with the slow, one dimensional inside mid group rather than seeing him as the dynamic midfielder in the mix

Dawson is mentioned because no matter what the mix he will be there. I don’t know or heard of anyone saying he’s one dimensional.
The problem is having both Laird and Crouch together.

 

[BunjiMac]

Whilst I agree with this, I can't figure out why Dawson/Laird/Crouch don't work well.

Dawson is the inside/outside big bodied midfielder with a killer disposal. Laird is quick, can tackle and racks it up and Crouch is in the guts dish it out.

In theory that should be the perfect combo yet it's when we lose the 50/50 contest that we seem to get burned.

Not enough speed, agility and class.

You need everything to fall into place for it to work.

Laird has speed across a few metres as his little legs can pump pretty quick but he doesnt have burt speed and doesn't break away from contest.

None of these guys have real agility or evasiveness in tight.

You can only afford to have 2 max of these 3.

 

[bigman]

Not a whole lot to report today, very light session and barely an hour long.

Players did some light skills as well as some running before leaving the track.

Laird didn’t train. Soligo, murray and harry did all the work which was pleasing to see. Harry is definitely moving better. Soligo looked fine, curious to see if he plays this week.

Keane ran laps and did them at a good clip. No apparent facial injuries.

Thought curtin looked a bit sore once again, obviously we put our faith in the doctors but it’s not great seeing him move stiffly and with a slight limp.

Hinge had a compression garment on his left thigh, suspect he must’ve copped a corky during Fridays game.

Butts and junior moved well. They look right to go.

Welsh did all the running - the rest of young boys only had to do about half, so it was good to see him do it all and keep up just fine.

 

[cleanhands]

Not a whole lot to report today, very light session and barely an hour long.

Players did some light skills as well as some running before leaving the track.

Laird didn’t train. Soligo, murray and harry did all the work which was pleasing to see. Harry is definitely moving better. Soligo looked fine, curious to see if he plays this week.

Keane ran laps and did them at a good clip. No apparent facial injuries.

Thought curtin looked a bit sore once again, obviously we put our faith in the doctors but it’s not great seeing him move stiffly and with a slight limp.

Hinge had a compression garment on his left thigh, suspect he must’ve copped a corky during Fridays game.

Butts and junior moved well. They look right to go.

Welsh did all the running - the rest of young boys only had to do about half, so it was good to see him do it all and keep up just fine.

We hope it’s not aggravating Curtin, but there are better people than me to assess that, Keane sounds good

 

[50BC]

Thanks for that. I thought Curtin looked hampered in the practice match. Cant think what knee problem you can just push through that will just get better. Nort sure I understand what's happening there at all. Glad to hear Keane looks okay.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Thanks for that. I thought Curtin looked hampered in the practice match. Cant think what knee problem you can just push through that will just get better. Nort sure I understand what's happening there at all. Glad to hear Keane looks okay.

Patellar tendinitis or Patellofemoral joint ( often caused by patellar tracking ) pain are 2 such conditions that you might try and push through

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Not a whole lot to report today, very light session and barely an hour long.

Players did some light skills as well as some running before leaving the track.

Laird didn’t train. Soligo, murray and harry did all the work which was pleasing to see. Harry is definitely moving better. Soligo looked fine, curious to see if he plays this week.

Keane ran laps and did them at a good clip. No apparent facial injuries.

Thought curtin looked a bit sore once again, obviously we put our faith in the doctors but it’s not great seeing him move stiffly and with a slight limp.

Hinge had a compression garment on his left thigh, suspect he must’ve copped a corky during Fridays game.

Butts and junior moved well. They look right to go.

Welsh did all the running - the rest of young boys only had to do about half, so it was good to see him do it all and keep up just fine.

A bit of a positive is how Chayce , Taylor , Harry and fingers crossed Murray seem to be bouncing back well and fast from their serious injuries

 

[50BC]

Patellar tendinitis or Patellofemoral joint ( often caused by patellar tracking ) pain are 2 such conditions that you might try and push through

That's pretty much what I fear they are trying to do, but it would not be my recommended course of action. But I'm just a humble GP, not a sports physician like Marc Cesana who is still the Crows senior Dr.

 

[WeeBlake]

That's pretty much what I fear they are trying to do, but it would not be my recommended course of action. But I'm just a humble GP, not a sports physician like Marc Cesana who is still the Crows senior Dr.

Dawson called it a “hyperextension” in a recent interview fwiw

 

[50BC]

Dawson called it a “hyperextension” in a recent interview fwiw

Yikes! I'd immediately suspect ligament damage in instance of a knee hyperextension (acl and/or pcl). Presumably they believe its a minor sprain only.

 

[Coopers]

Dawson called it a “hyperextension” in a recent interview fwiw

Well, why don't they just extend it the other way and get it back into alignment?

 

[spexau]

Patellar tendinitis or Patellofemoral joint ( often caused by patellar tracking ) pain are 2 such conditions that you might try and push through

I'm dealing with Patellar tendonitis at the moment. It's annoying but shouldn't prevent him from performing at a high level. Can take a while to go away though.

 

[bigman]

That's pretty much what I fear they are trying to do, but it would not be my recommended course of action. But I'm just a humble GP, not a sports physician like Marc Cesana who is still the Crows senior Dr.

what would you suggest he do 50 BC given your medical expertise? Can he cause any long term damage to his knee by continuing to train

 

[50BC]

what would you suggest he do 50 BC given your medical expertise? Can he cause any long term damage to his knee by continuing to train

Well I don't know his actual situation, but personally if he is in obvious discomfort than he should back off from activity for longer would be my opinion (as a minimum), I would say why risk a career for a few extra weeks. But obviously the medical team who have examined him think he is okay to go.

 

[Multiballz]

Well I don't know his actual situation, but personally if he is in obvious discomfort than he should back off from activity for longer would be my opinion (as a minimum), I would say why risk a career for a few extra weeks. But obviously the medical team who have examined him think he is okay to go.

Is it just me, or do we have a bad habit of pushing to breaking point?

Who broke last year after playing hampered? Anyone or am I just imagining things?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Is it just me, or do we have a bad habit of pushing to breaking point?

Who broke last year after playing hampered? Anyone or am I just imagining things?

Yeah, we have a bad habit of playing injured players... many on here then think the player is in bad form when they are actually under duress... then it comes out months later they were injured, but we persisted in playing them despite having depth.

When a player's output is clearly suffering & the injury is not improving without rest, give them a rest... unless it's finals, then need to weigh up options.

 

[George Kramer]

Yeah, we have a bad habit of playing injured players... many on here then think the player is in bad form when they are actually under duress... then it comes out months later they were injured, but we persisted in playing them despite having depth.

When a player's output is clearly suffering & the injury is not improving without rest, give them a rest... unless it's finals, then need to weigh up options.

It’s because they don’t trust the squad. Doedee should have been rested much earlier than he was and Worrell played.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

It’s because they don’t trust the squad. Doedee should have been rested much earlier than he was and Worrell played.

Yeah & this is just one example.

We are actually worse off as the player usually performs below what a replacement would offer... & we are hindering the development of younger players & depth.

 

[Peter Doherty]

Yeah & this is just one example.

We are actually worse off as the player usually performs below what a replacement would offer... & we are hindering the development of younger players & depth.

What was Ken's quote about playing injured players in the finals last year?

'If you thought those injured players performed badly, you should have seen the other options we had'

 

[cleanhands]

What was Ken's quote about playing injured players in the finals last year?

'If you thought those injured players performed badly, you should have seen the other options we had'

And that’s the best list he has had at his disposal