Black Diamond AFL - 2012

[Practice22]

I vote we just play footy.

Has anyone got any news on trial matches or how clubs are travelling?

I think the divisional rubbish has now been done to death, so lets start talking about the interesting stuff.

You will find it rubbish W17 when your side comes up against the best five teams in the competition and gets belted every second or third week with no sign of a way out until the end of the season.

How long are your players going to cop it before they walk away and your team comes last in the initial divisionalisation year of the BDAFL?

I find it ironic that here is all this talk of divisionalisation and yet - the website is silent. Dont give me someone forgot the password crap. There are ways around that. How was it updated until 17 Feb.? Was the password burnt at the stake?

The thing is that if local AFL officials want support for the league, people out there need to be told what is going on and the website is the only avenue for the dissemination of news.

Someone has to get their act right. Perhaps an indiscreet press leak to the media might work.

Having said all that. It is one thing to move into divisionalisation and another to make it work. It wont under the proposed system and needs tweeking or you and I can pick the premier well before the season starts. Just ask yourself, which team played in the last (is it) six grand finals and have won the flag for the last four?

If you are a betting man get your money on them now.

 

[sherb]

Someone before said the league is trying to improve competitiveness. Great, but where clubs struggle for numbers shouldn't the focus be in participation to grow the code.

The point is that competitiveness is the key to growing the code.

You simply can't attract people to clubs which are getting hammered regularly. Especially when there is a fair bit of travel involved.

This means that those clubs continue to struggle due to lack of numbers/quality and may even eventually give up the ghost.

Making the competition more even and giving clubs a chance to play against like opposition is the way to go.

Give blokes a chance to win (or to put it another way, take away the guarantee of a loss) and they are more likely to be interested.

Divisionalisation has been a godsend to Sydney footy. Clubs which have battled away for years against far superior opposition have had a new lease of life. And have had much more success in attracting players.

Someone pointed out Penrith as an example. I believe this year they have three senior sides, an Under 18s and a womens' side. It wasn't that long ago that they struggled to fill 2 senior sides.

The short notice of this though is absurd, I agree. And finding extra volunteers is certainly a serious issue, especially at such short notice. They could have given it another 12 months I would have thought.

 

[befooty]

Cheese and Beetroots are playing St George this weekend.
It's interesting that they won't allow any of their players to train or play with the u23s development team - that's probably why a few keys players have walked to Maitland - sick of the egos and tantrums!!

cheese and beetroots - you must be that f%$#wit on the hill at the gf a couple of years ago

 

[Northern_Swan]

Cheese and Beetroots are playing St George this weekend.
It's interesting that they won't allow any of their players to train or play with the u23s development team - that's probably why a few keys players have walked to Maitland - sick of the egos and tantrums!!

You got anything to back that up champ or you just flinging sh!t at a wall to see what sticks?

 

[lotg]

Hey, I just read on the website that Warners Bay has a new sponsor. Anyone ever seen Groundhog Day?

 

[The Whisper05]

You got anything to back that up champ or you just flinging sh!t at a wall to see what sticks?

No shit here - maybe you're just out of the loop at the club now, it has been a while. Three young blokes have been training at Maitland for a number of weeks - they seem very content from what I hear.

 

[deitzy]

The point is that competitiveness is the key to growing the code.

You simply can't attract people to clubs which are getting hammered regularly. Especially when there is a fair bit of travel involved.

This means that those clubs continue to struggle due to lack of numbers/quality and may even eventually give up the ghost.

Making the competition more even and giving clubs a chance to play against like opposition is the way to go.

Give blokes a chance to win (or to put it another way, take away the guarantee of a loss) and they are more likely to be interested.

Divisionalisation has been a godsend to Sydney footy. Clubs which have battled away for years against far superior opposition have had a new lease of life. And have had much more success in attracting players.

Someone pointed out Penrith as an example. I believe this year they have three senior sides, an Under 18s and a womens' side. It wasn't that long ago that they struggled to fill 2 senior sides.

The short notice of this though is absurd, I agree. And finding extra volunteers is certainly a serious issue, especially at such short notice. They could have given it another 12 months I would have thought.

Probably the most sane post on here. Agree that divisionalisation makes for more competitive footy, and more competitive footy brings in players and makes it more enjoyable. Players want to go to successful clubs, not bottom ones and that is just part of footy. It is totally absurd the timing of things but it cant be changed now. I believe a new draw has been done up that is alot better for the clubs with 3 sides with less splits. Why couldnt this have been done in the first place. Probably would have saved alot of disgruntlement! Divisionalisation done a few years ago would probably mean Gosford, Peninsula and Wyong were still around, would have avoided the negative publicity the league has received over the years about the lopsidedness of the competition and allowed struggling clubs to achieve success, albiet at a lower level, but you would have retained alot of players no longer playing because they are sick of getting belted.

Anyway now we have this system how are clubs looking down there? Any major ins or outs? Saw KV had a good win on the weekend with a lot of blokes out. Any other results?

 

[waugh17]

Probably the most sane post on here. Agree that divisionalisation makes for more competitive footy, and more competitive footy brings in players and makes it more enjoyable. Players want to go to successful clubs, not bottom ones and that is just part of footy. It is totally absurd the timing of things but it cant be changed now. I believe a new draw has been done up that is alot better for the clubs with 3 sides with less splits. Why couldnt this have been done in the first place. Probably would have saved alot of disgruntlement! Divisionalisation done a few years ago would probably mean Gosford, Peninsula and Wyong were still around, would have avoided the negative publicity the league has received over the years about the lopsidedness of the competition and allowed struggling clubs to achieve success, albiet at a lower level, but you would have retained alot of players no longer playing because they are sick of getting belted.

Anyway now we have this system how are clubs looking down there? Any major ins or outs? Saw KV had a good win on the weekend with a lot of blokes out. Any other results?

Well said Deitzy, lets call this the end of the divisionalisation chat and move on...enough sooking.

Anyone got any news on the City v Manly game?

 

[Northern_Swan]

No shit here - maybe you're just out of the loop at the club now, it has been a while. Three young blokes have been training at Maitland for a number of weeks - they seem very content from what I hear.

You talking about Simon and Beard??? Blokes who haven't played for the club in 5 years?

I was more referring to your assertion that the club had stopped players being involved in the under 23s. To the best of my knowledge, the blokes from Cardiff weren't involved because they didn't want to be. And thats because the 23s thing is a big w@nk designed to stroke the egos of a couple of board members.

 

[miksmif]

City first grade went down by about 8 goals to manly div 1
And city second grade went down by 10points to manly div 2

 

[swans12]

You talking about Simon and Beard??? Blokes who haven't played for the club in 5 years?

I was more referring to your assertion that the club had stopped players being involved in the under 23s. To the best of my knowledge, the blokes from Cardiff weren't involved because they didn't want to be. And thats because the 23s thing is a big w@nk designed to stroke the egos of a couple of board members.

Not trying to stir the pot, but I have heard a couple of additional Cardiff names training at Maitland as well.

I also heard that the Cardiff coach ran the line of it's club first over some worthless rep game, which is his opinion but personally I think the more rep stuff we provide the better we develop kids in our region.

 

[noodles81]

Not trying to stir the pot, but I have heard a couple of additional Cardiff names training at Maitland as well.

I also heard that the Cardiff coach ran the line of it's club first over some worthless rep game, which is his opinion but personally I think the more rep stuff we provide the better we develop kids in our region.

Maitland are doing the best they can to build from the bottom up(divs will help them)they have had juniors from their club at training as well as City,Cardiff and Nelson's current and former players. Harro has overseen the clubs initial training before they will stand on their own feet. Good luck to them this year!

The season will start soon anyone want to predict tables? all grades

My best,without knowing ins/outs yet and still no clearances on the web!!

Prem: CityCardiff,Terr,Warners,KV,Mac...pretty confident on top 2 and less on the rest depending on recruits

1st div: Singo,Wyong,Nelsons,City,Cardiff,Terr...prob gotta favour the senior sides over other's 2's altho I think this will be closest grade

2nd div: Would love the new boys to get up,but prob go Warners,Maitland(depending on the cardiff/city connection they may win),KV,Mac,Singo(still think either Nelson's or Wyong could of got a team in,they would of been competitive with the bottom half at least!)

18's: Nelsons,Cardiff,KV,Terr,Warners,Mac...not sure bout this grade,but Nelson's will be tough to beatif their boys still all there(Warners/Mac may struggle with no easy wins to keep their sides together!)

 

[Northern_Swan]

I also heard that the Cardiff coach ran the line of it's club first over some worthless rep game, which is his opinion but personally I think the more rep stuff we provide the better we develop kids in our region.

Personally I think we should be worrying more about providing a viable, competitive under 18s competition to feed into the senior grades before we worry about an under 23 rep team that does nothing for development what so ever.
To do this the league needs to sit down with all senior and junior clubs as well as the development team and come up with some clear aims and outcomes to work towards. Because at the moment we have a league on the brink of collapse, very few 16's coming through and three leagues and a development team that are without cohesion.
But that's just my opinion. If we can't get a website updated in this day and age, what hope have we got of having a viable comp?

 

[weaglesman]

Personally I think we should be worrying more about providing a viable, competitive under 18s competition to feed into the senior grades before we worry about an under 23 rep team that does nothing for development what so ever.
To do this the league needs to sit down with all senior and junior clubs as well as the development team and come up with some clear aims and outcomes to work towards. Because at the moment we have a league on the brink of collapse, very few 16's coming through and three leagues and a development team that are without cohesion.
But that's just my opinion. If we can't get a website updated in this day and age, what hope have we got of having a viable comp?

I ventured to a few Under 18s games last season and must say I was disappointed in the skill level of players. Lots of dropped marks and poor kicking skills.

I have just been reading the latest edition of Inside Football and there is an article in there about the VFL development squad and it's aims. It reads that the squad is there to compliment the clubs not take them away. This needs to be the thought from the administrators in the region when considering representative sides.

For what it is worth I was not even aware there was a development squad being run by the league and this forum is the only place I have heard it mentioned

 

[befooty]

Maitland are doing the best they can to build from the bottom up(divs will help them)they have had juniors from their club at training as well as City,Cardiff and Nelson's current and former players. Harro has overseen the clubs initial training before they will stand on their own feet. Good luck to them this year!

The season will start soon anyone want to predict tables? all grades

My best,without knowing ins/outs yet and still no clearances on the web!!

Prem: CityCardiff,Terr,Warners,KV,Mac...pretty confident on top 2 and less on the rest depending on recruits

1st div: Singo,Wyong,Nelsons,City,Cardiff,Terr...prob gotta favour the senior sides over other's 2's altho I think this will be closest grade

2nd div: Would love the new boys to get up,but prob go Warners,Maitland(depending on the cardiff/city connection they may win),KV,Mac,Singo(still think either Nelson's or Wyong could of got a team in,they would of been competitive with the bottom half at least!)

18's: Nelsons,Cardiff,KV,Terr,Warners,Mac...not sure bout this grade,but Nelson's will be tough to beatif their boys still all there(Warners/Mac may struggle with no easy wins to keep their sides together!)

my predictions ...

Premier Div: Cardiff, City,Terr, Dockers, Dogs, KV
Div 1: NB, Cardiff, Singo, City, Wyong, Terr ... closest grade I agree
Div 2: Maitland, KV, Dogs, Mac, Singo, + combined Masters team

ex cardiff to maitland Div 2 ... beard, simon, taranto, quade, white ... some good ones there but only one played recently

intersting that the league have not covered the relegation/promotion process for divisions ... rules for club teams etc ... obviously cannot have 2 club teams in the same division ... so do Div 1 and Div 2 premiers go up automatically and premier and div 1 spooners go down automatically barring the exceptions - i.e. if Cardiff win Div 1 they cannot go up so the Runner up gets promoted

the competition between Singo, NB, Dockers, Maitland, etc will be fierce if that is the case ... all good stuff ... bring on the footy

 

[miksmif]

What happens if the top 6 teams in premier division are the same in division 1...do we then go back to what we originally had??

 

[dr venkman]

Would make sense that Cardiff would lose a few as more than likely alot of people living in the Maitland area really only played there cause of the proximity of there ground o the area

City remaining quiet, (except at training where in excess of 50 blokes a night a getting down jostling for spots). Hot tip is the Blues will have a third team with rumors of upto 80 people already signed up (exl the usually abundant uni clearances ).

A mate of mine from WB has said things are progressing and Jimmy Newburn is captain coaching.

 

[noodles81]

Personally I think we should be worrying more about providing a viable, competitive under 18s competition to feed into the senior grades before we worry about an under 23 rep team that does nothing for development what so ever.
To do this the league needs to sit down with all senior and junior clubs as well as the development team and come up with some clear aims and outcomes to work towards. Because at the moment we have a league on the brink of collapse, very few 16's coming through and three leagues and a development team that are without cohesion.
But that's just my opinion. If we can't get a website updated in this day and age, what hope have we got of having a viable comp?

Agree that we need our comp in order first and THEN the rep stuff with dev squads and the like!!

Does anyone know WHO has the website responsibility? Surely we can find someone to run it!(maybe someone on here?) I dont know but I here up in Queensland they having difficulties getting info out!(promoting the game)

 

[noodles81]

I ventured to a few Under 18s games last season and must say I was disappointed in the skill level of players. Lots of dropped marks and poor kicking skills.

I have just been reading the latest edition of Inside Football and there is an article in there about the VFL development squad and it's aims. It reads that the squad is there to compliment the clubs not take them away. This needs to be the thought from the administrators in the region when considering representative sides.

For what it is worth I was not even aware there was a development squad being run by the league and this forum is the only place I have heard it mentioned

Yeah there def needs to be more information/communication so ppl know what is going on in the league!!

This weekend the '23's team are playing,so will be interesting to see who plays. Does anyone even know who is in the squad?

 

[noodles81]

my predictions ...

Premier Div: Cardiff, City,Terr, Dockers, Dogs, KV
Div 1: NB, Cardiff, Singo, City, Wyong, Terr ... closest grade I agree
Div 2: Maitland, KV, Dogs, Mac, Singo, + combined Masters team

ex cardiff to maitland Div 2 ... beard, simon, taranto, quade, white ... some good ones there but only one played recently

intersting that the league have not covered the relegation/promotion process for divisions ... rules for club teams etc ... obviously cannot have 2 club teams in the same division ... so do Div 1 and Div 2 premiers go up automatically and premier and div 1 spooners go down automatically barring the exceptions - i.e. if Cardiff win Div 1 they cannot go up so the Runner up gets promoted

the competition between Singo, NB, Dockers, Maitland, etc will be fierce if that is the case ... all good stuff ... bring on the footy

Yeah cant wait for some footy!! I originally though that KV would get the spoon also(but heard they got 2 blokes maybe from down south?) and Jackson Ireland may play! Him alone would drag them on his back like last time,Dockers have got Singleton who goes alright but not sure of others and the Doggies have boxhead from Wyong who had a year in Sydney and will be handy/solid.

Div 1: Wow the Bay on top? have they got ins that I dont know about? cos they couldnt get over Cardiff last year,Singo used to give them nothing in their 2's years and City/Terr will be relatively solid. A team could easilly go from 1st to 6th in this grade(very close) but dont discount Wyong.
They won it 2 years in a row and still have some handy players at this level(coop brothers,ede etc) they will be weaker than last year but they are in a lower level,either way a good year.

Div 2: pretty much agree with as I think the more success Maitland have they will build and make finals(therefore no longer playing against any top level players having a rest) will be a good comp also.
Whats this about masters tho mate?
I know the coast boys are not doin much this year(not enough interest) and with the Sydney masters having their own comp,wasnt sure what the Hunter boys would be doing? Heard the coast boys were gonna try something with Gossy(maybe just train with them) would be interesting to see if they put a 'sixth' team in div 2!!

 

[noodles81]

Would make sense that Cardiff would lose a few as more than likely alot of people living in the Maitland area really only played there cause of the proximity of there ground o the area

City remaining quiet, (except at training where in excess of 50 blokes a night a getting down jostling for spots). Hot tip is the Blues will have a third team with rumors of upto 80 people already signed up (exl the usually abundant uni clearances ).

A mate of mine from WB has said things are progressing and Jimmy Newburn is captain coaching.

Good to see!! If the Blues get a third team up(this is what will happen,even if not this year)it is about growing your numbers,and gone will be the days of 'rotations' and ppl missing out on a run!!

 

[noodles81]

What happens if the top 6 teams in premier division are the same in division 1...do we then go back to what we originally had??

In short no. Mick, you have been around awhile now (maybe not as long as me) but you will know/see that the senerio you have provided will not happen as just in Sydney,a clubs higher team will eventually get on top of another teams 2's or 3's.

If we look at our comp from say 2003,the top teams in the lower div are a mix of the clubs not fielding senior sides and the strongest clubs overall!

ie when Wyong were in they were top dogs alongside the city/cardiff 2's,then Lake Mac were up there with city 2's, hell even Woy woy were up there 1 year again joined by the top two teams!

Singo then dominated,and eventually so will Maitland and any other clubs that join(there will be some very soon,i hear they are lining up now divs are in!)

It is not a definite,but basically they will eventually get better as they are working towards a goal together/as opposed to other teams players who may be in and out of the side and trying to make their 1's team etc.

I believe this will be the same in div 2, ie your Maitlands/Muswellbrooks?Woys anyone else who joins may not win the comp on 1st attempt but will slowly make their way up the ladder,past your 2's sides of KV/Warners and even 3's from City!!

It works because the players at other clubs are usually just having a run,retiring/coming back to the game/cant train and your up and coming clubs are building at a sustainable level,stepping up a grade when ready(not pushed)

just my thoughts and we will see in 3 years if it succeeds!!

 

[narva]

any word on how the finals will be run. will it continue to be the same format. 4 out of 6 teams making the finals. top two teams should still be rewarded with chance to play off to go into grand final. think the split is good for the league and there will be many interesting games through the year. will really test a few teams ability to maintain form when continuely playing harder games, injuries and player unavailability. all in all looking forward and can't wait to get into it.

 

[deitzy]

Good to see!! If the Blues get a third team up(this is what will happen,even if not this year)it is about growing your numbers,and gone will be the days of 'rotations' and ppl missing out on a run!!

All well and good to grow your numbers but pretty poor they don't have an 18s side. Go back to the days of clubs with no 18s only playing for half points. Might be the only way to stop them!

What clubs like Lake Mac KV and Warners will find tough this year is improving their depth players being in a lower division now as opposed to the Cardiffs Citys and Terrigals. Just means those players who come in from the 2s will have to step up a fair way to seniors. Spoke to a bloke from Balmain last year and he said it was a big issue for them with their ressies in div2 stepping up
to premier.

As for the development squad it is a good idea in theory but not sure what the motive is. Is it to get players drafted or to state league level? Is it to improve the comp. If its to get players drafted they arent being realistic. If its to keep players in the comp the program doesn't matter too much because most players want to play at the highest level they can. On last years model alot of players lost interest as it wasnt much of a program. I would suggest only have 15 players for under 23 and 20 for 18s and make it a real quality program as opposed to opening it right up. Then again I think fixing the 18s comp should take precedence over anything right now! Only 5-6 sides is pretty poor on the leagues and clubs parts

 

[befooty]

All well and good to grow your numbers but pretty poor they don't have an 18s side. Go back to the days of clubs with no 18s only playing for half points. Might be the only way to stop them!

What clubs like Lake Mac KV and Warners will find tough this year is improving their depth players being in a lower division now as opposed to the Cardiffs Citys and Terrigals. Just means those players who come in from the 2s will have to step up a fair way to seniors. Spoke to a bloke from Balmain last year and he said it was a big issue for them with their ressies in div2 stepping up
to premier.

As for the development squad it is a good idea in theory but not sure what the motive is. Is it to get players drafted or to state league level? Is it to improve the comp. If its to get players drafted they arent being realistic. If its to keep players in the comp the program doesn't matter too much because most players want to play at the highest level they can. On last years model alot of players lost interest as it wasnt much of a program. I would suggest only have 15 players for under 23 and 20 for 18s and make it a real quality program as opposed to opening it right up. Then again I think fixing the 18s comp should take precedence over anything right now! Only 5-6 sides is pretty poor on the leagues and clubs parts

5-6 U18 teams with poor numbers ...

... that is not good and something we need to desperately fix ASAP above ALL other priorities