Bluemour Melting Pot XXIX

[Blue_Fusion]

My concern about Clarko comes from the recent rumour that the younger players at Hawthorn were behind wanting to push him out early.
If that's true, does he have a disconnect with how to deal with the current day, young footballer? Hard arses aren't as well received in the industry these days, rightly or wrongly.
As much as we say our players could do with a nice dose of reality and a hardnosed coach who won't tolerate crap, footy is moving away from those types.

They wanted to push him out early because they knew he was going anyway (with the club announcing the succession plan). They didn't want to spend a year waiting, rather to get the succession coach in earlier so they can start working together sooner rather than later.

and what's this "footy is moving away from those types" mean? Any evidence of that being effective?

 

[3rd Grade Maggy]

Just try to do the maths. in 2021 there's $13.4 million salary cap

How much is Crippa, H, Williams, Saad, Martin, CC & McGov on already?
I'll throw some will numbers just for demonstration purposes (feel free to correct if you know the actual numbers):

• Crippa $900K
• H $800K
• Williams $800K
• Saad $700K
• Martin $600K
• McGov $600K
• CC $800K

That's $5.2m already for these 7 players
$8.2m remaining divide by the remaining 33 players (assuming 40 in the list) = $~250K per player - which is as expected right?

So we are going to lose a few of these ~$250K players and find room for Walsh who will command $900K per season.
None of the players listed above are going to end their contract any time soon (refer to this https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...list-and-contract-status.368412/post-70736779)

So how would we find another $700K for Cerra - too hard basket I would say.
Concentrate on finding $900K for Walsh instead - that got to be our priority!

Is there, like, a spreadsheet or something with all player salaries you get access to if you are a premium member or something? Anyone want to share their password with me? Seems like fun.

 

[BlueJet]

Interesting stuff, are you able to elaborate more on this?

Why is Lloyd scrambling for survival and how is Liddle helping him in that area? In what way might Austin be thrown under the bus?

I am guessing this is related to the review?

At a guess, it'd be Lloyd moving from Head of Football to List Manager with Liddle providing the rubber stamp.
Sounds dubious, the knock on Liddle's tenure is due to his perceived meddling- at a time when the department is under the microscope, I can't see him shafting Austin to keep Lloyd in a job.

 

[Aphrodite]

Personally, I don’t think Walsh will be on $900,000, he isn’t OOC until 2023, my opinion of him, is that he will sign on for unders, how much, who knows, come draft time, it will be interesting who we move on, maybe the club will trade some middle rung players like Setters, LOB, SPS, who are already on their second contracts, which will free up some cash.

GOV and Charlie, two years left are the closest ones to running out.

Out of contract end of 2022 DD.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Like I said, he was a few months away from 27 by the time he actually played for us... which is what matters.

No, it doesn't.

You call the draft weak, then praise who we got with pick 37... a kid who hasn't proven anything yet doesn't bolster your point.

One doesn't necessarily cancel out the other. Weak doesn't mean completely devoid of talent, and good players can slide. Admittedly Durdin hasn't fired a shot yet, but the main point is that you are completely ignoring pick 37 as part of the deal and simply presenting it as Saad for 8.

You don't trade pick 8 for a 27 yr old hbf when you're in a rebuild phase.

Rebuild phase? Rebuilding isn't JUST hitting the draft (which we did, HEAVILY, for 3 years after gutting the list). We also identified that there was a dearth of talent in an older age bracket due to earlier failed drafts, which would be getting addressed also. This was done at the tail end of the rebuild. The list has now BEEN rebuilt. That doesn't mean that we won't continue to fine tune it each year, but the hard work is done. We are NOT in a rebuild phase any more.

You're acting like he's the missing piece to our flag push.

No I'm not. I'm acting like he was identified by the club as a target worth pursuing and we paid a reasonable price for that target.

Feel free to reply, but I've said all I wanted to on that subject.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

LOL - why did you have to bring logic to a discussion , it is a rumour thread after all!
How much does facts play in this thread? Are we seriously after Cerra or not

No idea if we are. If he's interested in coming back to VIC and open to coming to the Blues, then we'd be crazy not to look at him and weigh up the pros and cons with what he'd add, who he'd potentially push out, and what he would cost in terms of dollars and picks/players.
Personally, I think somewhere around $700-750k isn't too bad for dollars. In terms of trade, SPS and a 2nd I'd be comfortable with. Not sure I'd want to do SPS and a 1st.
If SPS isn't involved (I don't particularly want him to go, just using him as the most obvious trade asset with a WA based team), then a 1st would be the starting point, but I would want to do anything more than a 1st and a 3rd if it was picks only involved.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Wut. I'm really confused by this post. Is it intentionally really dense to prove a point? Or do you really not know whether things would be better at Carlton if we were 5th atm...

I mean if we were 5th nobody would be talking about Liddle or Lloyd or Teague.

It is all based on a nonsense because we lost a few games we could have won.

 

[Garters]

You’re basing your maths, of assumptions, Cripps contract was reported at $750,000 per year, media reports have Saad at $650,000 per year, if that’s true, that’s $200,000 per year under, that’s not considering if the numbers above are base rate or max rate.

You would also have roughly 12 players at any given time, under $120,000 per year, which frees up a lot of cash

Spot on and you also have the front loading and back loading of contracts which we have no line of sight on and surplus carry over on top of that. It is a fools paradise trying to estimate what our player payments and overall salary numbers are. General consensus was if I remember correctly that there was space for another A grade addittion to the list this season without upending the apple cart.

 

[Bryce Bubbles]

BF knows we were dealing with Dodo yeah?

Dodo can get ****ed. Stupid **** face!

 

[Healer]

Just try to do the maths. in 2021 there's $13.4 million salary cap

How much is Crippa, H, Williams, Saad, Martin, CC & McGov on already?
I'll throw some will numbers just for demonstration purposes (feel free to correct if you know the actual numbers):

• Crippa $900K
• H $800K
• Williams $800K
• Saad $700K
• Martin $600K
• McGov $600K
• CC $800K

That's $5.2m already for these 7 players
$8.2m remaining divide by the remaining 33 players (assuming 40 in the list) = $~250K per player - which is as expected right?

So we are going to lose a few of these ~$250K players and find room for Walsh who will command $900K per season.
None of the players listed above are going to end their contract any time soon (refer to this https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...list-and-contract-status.368412/post-70736779)

So how would we find another $700K for Cerra - too hard basket I would say.
Concentrate on finding $900K for Walsh instead - that got to be our priority!

"Facts without data are just opinions"..... E. Demming

 

[CarltonBlooz]

No idea if we are. If he's interested in coming back to VIC and open to coming to the Blues, then we'd be crazy not to look at him and weigh up the pros and cons with what he'd add, who he'd potentially push out, and what he would cost in terms of dollars and picks/players.
Personally, I think somewhere around $700-750k isn't too bad for dollars. In terms of trade, SPS and a 2nd I'd be comfortable with. Not sure I'd want to do SPS and a 1st.
If SPS isn't involved (I don't particularly want him to go, just using him as the most obvious trade asset with a WA based team), then a 1st would be the starting point, but I would want to do anything more than a 1st and a 3rd if it was picks only involved.

Fremantle would never go for SPS and a 2nd, they'd laugh and hang up the phone.

Would be top ten pick and probably a 2nd or something like that. Not sure if SPS has that much trade value tbh, one of those players who's worth far more to us than them.

I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to demand two first rounders though.

As for Cerra I'm kinda keen, but he'd be signing the papers of one of the kids, so hmm.

Assuming media reports are correct, we're keen on Cerra, Lipinski and Hewitt, so interesting trade period ahead.

 

[Healer]

Would a BF "go fund me" campaign be considered in salary cap ?

 

[LanceRomance]

In no way has SPS justified being taken at pick 6.

I doubt many clubs would be giving up a 1st round pick for him.

SPS was hands down in everyone's first round pick list.

Guessing Freo would have taken him had we not.

 

[rp84]

No doubt cerra is worth a single first and 700k or a second and SPS.

Anyone thinking we don't have cash is mad. We have heavily front loaded most long contracts, at least until the recent Harry and Cripps contracts.

Martin and Gov would only be on 350-400k each now (still way too much for their garbage output).

I'm sure there is cash. There is room for another A grade mid.

Find the best mature age tall for cover next year and try to pluck an athletic tall late in the draft ro develop.

Luckily for us, Walsh is just as damaging off a wing as in the centre square.

A rotation of Walsh, Cerra, Dow, Cripps, potentially Stocker, Kennedy, Fisher is a midfield for 7-10 years that is going to win a lot of games for you at their prime. A good mix on inside and outside. Most players have two positions except for Cripps unfortunately.

Clearly we need a developing tall but I'm not sure we need to blow a top 10 pick on one. I think we need a 2nd ruck too but I'd be looking to find a RFA in the next year or two to fill that. TDK is a god tier ruck and we just need someone as injury cover. Can't spend too much on that position.

TLR; you get cerra if he's available

 

[Earls Smother]

Walsh's next contract is going to be pretty big. 17 clubs will be trying to get him out.

Is he playing District cricket?

 

[Blue DNA]

The steak knives are never the focal discussion of a trade.

Dennis Armfield resents this remark!

 

[Earls Smother]

they have to take the boy off.........

Oh he's give 'im one too...

 

[CarltonBlooz]

Is there, like, a spreadsheet or something with all player salaries you get access to if you are a premium member or something? Anyone want to share their password with me? Seems like fun.

You don't have access? Captain Carlton drops it off to your house in the hovercraft.

You have to be a Carlton gold member though, if you call the membership department they should be able to set you up.

 

[skadoosh]

Does anyone believe we would be able to provide the right environment to push SPS to his full potential?

He has so much of it currently untapped and wasting away.

It's just a sad situation we've gotten ourselves in.

 

[Benaly28]

Just try to do the maths. in 2021 there's $13.4 million salary cap

How much is Crippa, H, Williams, Saad, Martin, CC & McGov on already?
I'll throw some will numbers just for demonstration purposes (feel free to correct if you know the actual numbers):

• Crippa $900K
• H $800K
• Williams $800K
• Saad $700K
• Martin $600K
• McGov $600K
• CC $800K

That's $5.2m already for these 7 players
$8.2m remaining divide by the remaining 33 players (assuming 40 in the list) = $~250K per player - which is as expected right?

So we are going to lose a few of these ~$250K players and find room for Walsh who will command $900K per season.
None of the players listed above are going to end their contract any time soon (refer to this https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...list-and-contract-status.368412/post-70736779)

So how would we find another $700K for Cerra - too hard basket I would say.
Concentrate on finding $900K for Walsh instead - that got to be our priority!

Levi-Gone
Murph-Gone
Marchbank-Gone

Not sure how much that frees up add on top other delistings but agree it’s a stretch.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Earls Smother]

Does anyone believe we would be able to provide the right environment to push SPS to his full potential?

He has so much of it currently untapped and wasting away.

It's just a sad situation we've gotten ourselves in.

Same as Setterfield. We didn't get into this situation. He/they did - up to them what they want to do about it.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Levi-Gone
Murph-Gone
Marchbank-Gone

Not sure how much that frees up add on top other delistings but agree it’s a stretch.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Think that you might have gone a bit early on Marchbank. 24 year old great intercept marking defenders at 193cm don't come along all that often. Think about similar capabilities to Jake Lever. Just needs a run at it.

Depends on how his injury comes up, but I'd be keen to back him in.

 

[norway blue]

Plays a bit like Taylor Adams. Don't like Adams but you need that big bodied battering ram in their at all times and it cant always be Cripps. Reckon Kennedy is old fashioned tough as well.

I like Matty and hope he continues his form . Bam Bam .


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[Magruder]

Think that you might have gone a bit early on Marchbank. 24 year old great intercept marking defenders at 193cm don't come along all that often. Think about similar capabilities to Jake Lever. Just needs a run at it.

Depends on how his injury comes up, but I'd be keen to back him in.

Agreed but wouldn’t mind Gov training in that role.

 

[gbatman]

My concern about Clarko comes from the recent rumour that the younger players at Hawthorn were behind wanting to push him out early.
If that's true, does he have a disconnect with how to deal with the current day, young footballer? Hard arses aren't as well received in the industry these days, rightly or wrongly.
As much as we say our players could do with a nice dose of reality and a hardnosed coach who won't tolerate crap, footy is moving away from those types.

Or... do second rate players get the shits with a coach demanding they do more.

I think a coach coming off a talented and disciplined list going to one that is not will blow up and Hawthorn's list isn't too good.

If you don't play well, and you have a coach who knows standards, he's going to probably push hard, players may get shitty.

I have massive doubts that being old school and too hard doesn't work any more. I think the stronger sides still role that way, I think if you put that sort of person in charge of a weak and undisciplined list the players can't hack it and things blow up a little. I think these sort of players get away with poor standards for too long and you put someone in who demands better it upsets the applecart.

It's the importance of players needing to be developed in a more discipline environment.

Sometimes when the players crack it, it's because they are no good and have got poor attitudes. That can come from poor leadership, Hawthorn's great side had great leadership, currently they probably have stuff all. Forget the old school being an issue, Clarkson's methods will work very well if our leaders reiterate his message and players are talented and driven.