Bluemour Melting Pot XXIX

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

What high quality assistant is coming to work for Teague

That now really looks a massive problem now with such uncertainty on the head coach even if he did somehow survive, what established well credentialed assistant coaches would take that leap of faith moving onto such an uncertain landscape… craziness…

 

[Jimthegreat]

100% Clarkson then Id have
Lyon, Buckley then Scott

The bloke who would suit our list best would be Don Pyke. Lyon is too defensive. We are shit when we play as a defensive side. Coaches with the best two results for us this century, win/loss, and by a fair margin, have been Ratten and Teague, both attacking coaches. Just need someone to create the right balance with defence.

Still, the issue isn't really coaching. 6 coaches haven't changed anything. Can't coach bad culture. Anything you do will look bad. So, unless that changes, bar a year 1 sugar hit, nothing will change and another coach will get sacked. That change has to be players driven, leaders demanding accountability with real peer pressure. If we had a decent culture, with players motivated to perform weekly, not when they choose, we'd have played finals last year and this year. We very rarely get thrashed. If only the players had that "want". A fit list would help too. Learnt this year that our issues aren't coaching. Anyway, seems Teague is going so I hope they chase Don Pyke.

 

[CJMB]

The bloke who would suit our list best would be Don Pyke. Lyon is too defensive. We are sh*t when we play as a defensive side. Coaches with the best two results for us this century, win/loss, and by a fair margin, have been Ratten and Teague, both attacking coaches. Just need someone to create the right balance with defence.

Still, the issue isn't really coaching. 6 coaches haven't changed anything. Can't coach bad culture. Anything you do will look bad. So, unless that changes, bar a year 1 sugar hit, nothing will change and another coach will get sacked. That change has to be players driven, leaders demanding accountability with real peer pressure. If we had a decent culture, with players motivated to perform weekly, not when they choose, we'd have played finals last year and this year. We very rarely get thrashed. If only the players had that "want". A fit list would help too. Learnt this year that our issues aren't coaching. Anyway, seems Teague is going so I hope they chase Don Pyke.

The coaching is plenty f***ed.

It’s not the only problem but it’s 100% a major issue.

 

[Jimthegreat]

It bothers me too. Club needs to ask itself how well it has supported Teague, how well is our coaching department staffed etc. Answer to that is extremely poorly. You look at how well Simon Goodwin has been supported with assistants etc at Melbourne and Hardwick after some years of failure they got their act together and don't forget Geelong, they have an extremely credentialed coaching team under Scott.

Has Teague failed Carlton or have Carlton failed Teague?

I think it's extremely obvious when you compare us to the rest of the competition's successful teams. He joins a long list of coaches that this club has setup to fail. We are always so far behind the rest of the competition with how well our footy department is staffed and setup it's so bloody frustrating!

If the review is worth the paper it is written on then this should come out.

Hard to say if Teague has failed. 6 coaching changes have done nothing, which tells me it is a player culture issue. Teague has been our 2nd best coach this century by a fair margin. (pic says Teague's winning record is 48%, it's 44%). Pic below shows our general failure as a club more so than any coach.

 

[forever blue 1]

The bloke who would suit our list best would be Don Pyke. Lyon is too defensive. We are sh*t when we play as a defensive side. Coaches with the best two results for us this century, win/loss, and by a fair margin, have been Ratten and Teague, both attacking coaches. Just need someone to create the right balance with defence.

Still, the issue isn't really coaching. 6 coaches haven't changed anything. Can't coach bad culture. Anything you do will look bad. So, unless that changes, bar a year 1 sugar hit, nothing will change and another coach will get sacked. That change has to be players driven, leaders demanding accountability with real peer pressure. If we had a decent culture, with players motivated to perform weekly, not when they choose, we'd have played finals last year and this year. We very rarely get thrashed. If only the players had that "want". A fit list would help too. Learnt this year that our issues aren't coaching. Anyway, seems Teague is going so I hope they chase Don Pyke.

Don’t agree
Make dog start to wah tail
If better players are cause shit
Drop them and **** the win loss for a season
Let the players start know who’s boss
If it cintinues
Put in table even if you take a hit
Long term will benefit. Cripps 6 years lmao

 

[Jimthegreat]

The coaching is plenty f***ed.

It’s not the only problem but it’s 100% a major issue.

Thing is he has been alot better, win/loss, than everyone bar Ratten this century. Bad cultures chew coaches and spit them out. You can't make a game plan work a with our player attitude, hence why 6 coaching changes have done nothing. Otherwise a new coach is wasting his time if that is not sorted.

Agree with "Forever Blue" above.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Don’t agree
Make dog start to wah tail
If better players are cause sh*t
Drop them and fu** the win loss for a season
Let the players start know who’s boss
If it cintinues
Put in table even if you take a hit
Long term will benefit. Cripps 6 years lmao

Actually, we do agree. I could have gone on and said all that, as I have said in other forums.

 

[Arr0w]

Hard to say if Teague has failed. 6 coaching changes have done nothing, which tells me it is a player culture issue. Teague has been our 2nd best coach this century by a fair margin. (pic says Teague's winning record is 48%, it's 44%). Pic below shows our general failure as a club more so than any coach.

You can't just look at the raw numbers, you need to consider the quality of the list under each coach

 

[BlueJet]

You’re surprised that a coach, coaching a team down the bottom of the ladder the last few years, has a poor win/loss record against Richmond, who have won 3 out of 4 premierships, WC who have won a premiership, the Dogs who have won a premiership and the Lions who have featured heavily in finals?

Yep, as times gone by there are some on Bigfooty that have seemingly decided that Clarko can't actually coach and was carried by an exceptional list and great assistants - but then again, we already know that people aren't shy about creating facts to suit an argument.

 

[Hands On]

May or may not be bullsh*t I just made up, but I like this 'rumour' so I'll post it here.

Carlton will not show up against the giants next week, if * are relying on us to win so they can make finals.

Done!!

 

[Jimthegreat]

I really don't understand why people think that nothing will change if we get Clarko or Lyon.

Look what Clarko did for the Hawks or Bevo did for the bulldogs (15th in 2013 and 14th in 2014 under MCartney to 6th in 2015 then premiership the next year under Bevo). Both those clubs were a S&!t show.

I think Clarko or Lyon will shake things up in the footy Department. They won't be pushed around.
They both know what it takes to build a successful on field football team.

I like Teague and chances are he would eventually come good but the question is how long will it take?
Will Harry McKay hang around when his next contract comes around?
How long are these kids who will be headhunted by other clubs going to believe in Teague's vision/game plan without results.

I think we need someone who will deliver some hard truths and doesn't know how to back down from the likes of Liddle or Lloyd
or entitled or soft players etc. Someone who can get these kids to believe in themselves.

The fact the players are so inconsistent has me believing Teague is not the right man.
If they gave 100% effort most of the time and we lost I can live with that, but that happens rarely under Teague.

Either way I trust the club to do the right thing.

The issue is the culture. We lack the drive and motivation to succeed. Unfortunately that can only be sorted by the players themselves as motivation and drive to succeed comes from within. Has to be player driven. If that doesn't sort then the likes of Clarko or Lyon will change nothing. Hard coaches sadly have fallen by the wayside here with our entitled lot Need to sift through the playing list and trade out those who seem happy just to turn up for the pay cheque rather than being driven to succeed. Otherwise we see another flop after a year 1 sugar hit.

I'm sure Bolton is going to fill Clarko in very nicely about the perils of coaching Carlton. I believe he may retire. Hawks have underachieved for two years anyway. Lyon's style of play won't suit us. Our skills coming out of defence will drive him to distraction. Hence my pick of Don Pyke.

 

[whySOSserious]

Obviously it was said with a massive touch of sarcasm... as a end to end web application developer, I will ******* end a person if they use comic sans on a professional document!

I'd like to have a chat with the person who created 'comic sans'

Ask them how much money it would take to make it disappear from our computers for good.

On CPH1951 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[TerryWallet]

Can we all just take a moment to soak up this extraordinary quote?

From a Zero Hanger article quoting Tim Watson on some Saints players being linked to Carlton:

“That also goes to the players you have at your disposal as a football club. In terms of the guys who haven’t got great leg speed, aren’t great tearaway split type players from stoppages, but then can’t spread quickly enough, you’ve got to have the right combination or somebody is going to be left out,” Tim Watson told SEN Breakfast.

Stunning mastery and control of language and rhetoric. Frame that quote and hang it prominently in your home!

We are talking about a bloke who after 20 years of practice was still staring bug eyed at his cue cards while trying to read them on the news.

Tim Watson - Champion footballer - Year 8 graduate - Abject failure coach - Dream Team architect - Liar - Helps keep tradies awake at 7AM - Roams boundaries.

 

[DangerousD]

Spot on BigNick…

Whos going to tell him Clarkson is an academic?

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Whos going to tell him Clarkson is an academic?

I’m sure it will get pointed out to him but he certainly has the basics covered…

 

[BlueHulk]

The issue is the culture. We lack the drive and motivation to succeed. Unfortunately that can only be sorted by the players themselves as motivation and drive to succeed comes from within. Has to be player driven. If that doesn't sort then the likes of Clarko or Lyon will change nothing. Hard coaches sadly have fallen by the wayside here with our entitled lot Need to sift through the playing list and trade out those who seem happy just to turn up for the pay cheque rather than being driven to succeed. Otherwise we see another flop after a year 1 sugar hit.

I'm sure Bolton is going to fill Clarko in very nicely about the perils of coaching Carlton. I believe he may retire. Hawks have underachieved for two years anyway. Lyon's style of play won't suit us. Our skills coming out of defence will drive him to distraction. Hence my pick of Don Pyke.

Look everyone is entitled to their opinion, but i still think its the coaches job to get the best out of the player. Its not up to the players to do so, otherwise they would just have a skills and tactical coach.

There are exceptions (Walsh , Weiters) but players need guidance and that's what a good coach does. These are young men who have to deal with the pressures of AFL. That's why so many players are dealing with mental health.

Dusty was raw for his first 4 or 5 years. Rance was the same. Dimma worked out what needed to be done to get the best out of them. He gave them freedom.

look what Bevo did for Picken. He went from a good player to almost elite. look at his stats before and after Bevo (massive difference).
I don't think Picken just decided to play better all of a sudden.

Footy is as much mental as it is physical and that's where a good coach comes in. The way he communicates with his team, he has to be flexible and apply different methods for each player. He needs to look at all aspects of their lives personal and professional.

Same goes for school and the work force. Its up to teachers and managers to get the best out of their people. When they fail at this the majority of people don't care, and that's when productivity/performance drops.

I like Teague I'm just not sure he has that connection with the player. It might come with time, but i think he has lost them.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Don’t agree
Make dog start to wah tail
If better players are cause sh*t
Drop them and fu** the win loss for a season
Let the players start know who’s boss
If it cintinues
Put in table even if you take a hit
Long term will benefit. Cripps 6 years lmao

This is the shittest haiku I've ever seen.

 

[Santo the king]

The Captain Class: The Hidden Force That... by Walker, Sam

The Captain Class: The Hidden Force That... by Walker, Sam

www.amazon.com.au

This book been referred to in the past. Claims best teams have one thing in common
A great captain. Not a great coach.

 

[j-top]

I'd suggest it bloody well does if we hire an experienced coach like Clarkson or Lyon and they are unable to turn things around.

Where do we go from there?

Tasmania ?? (Joke)


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[AndyLucimitis]

The issue is the culture. We lack the drive and motivation to succeed. Unfortunately that can only be sorted by the players themselves as motivation and drive to succeed comes from within. Has to be player driven. If that doesn't sort then the likes of Clarko or Lyon will change nothing. Hard coaches sadly have fallen by the wayside here with our entitled lot Need to sift through the playing list and trade out those who seem happy just to turn up for the pay cheque rather than being driven to succeed. Otherwise we see another flop after a year 1 sugar hit.

I'm sure Bolton is going to fill Clarko in very nicely about the perils of coaching Carlton. I believe he may retire. Hawks have underachieved for two years anyway. Lyon's style of play won't suit us. Our skills coming out of defence will drive him to distraction. Hence my pick of Don Pyke.

Bolton has nothing to complain about over his time at Carlton. Untried coach who never played AFL and was given 4 years at the top.

I think he did a good job actually with the rebuild of the list but didn’t have it as a head coach.


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[SkyhorseTamer]

which tells me it is a player culture issue.

And how many players have been consistent over 6 coaching appointments? Lol. That's not the conclusion to draw there. The conclusion to draw is that the first 2 were directly around a significantly horrific time. Cap penalties etc. The club was a mess. Then ratts caught the back end of a long recovery and high frustrations. Malthouse was diabolical. There's no theme of player culture here. The theme has changed because the club has. It's a vastly different club to what it was. Still making mistakes, sure but no, we don't have a player culture issue crossing over multiple teams and 2 decades. At various times we've had a culture issue amongst players sure, but it's not the 'it' problem or cause.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Thing is he has been alot better, win/loss, than everyone bar Ratten this century. Bad cultures chew coaches and spit them out. You can't make a game plan work a with our player attitude, hence why 6 coaching changes have done nothing. Otherwise a new coach is wasting his time if that is not sorted.

Agree with "Forever Blue" above.

His win loss is obviously better than Malthouse and Bolton... Do a list comparison and a monkey could coach to better win loss with the list now compared to what those 2 had. (Malthouse of his own doing, a lot of it.)

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Unfortunately that can only be sorted by the players themselves as motivation and drive to succeed comes from within. Has to be player driven. If that doesn't sort then the likes of Clarko or Lyon will change nothing. Hard coaches sadly have fallen by the wayside here with our entitled lot Need to sift through the playing list and trade out those who seem happy just to turn up for the pay cheque rather than being driven to succeed. Otherwise we see another flop after a year 1 sugar hit.

That's a nice thought but wrong. Culture comes from the top. Players need that external voice to guide and help, set up a place that they can receive quality feedback in and improve, keep training standards high etc.

When player cultural issues extend to more than 1 or 2 bad eggs it's simply down to poor coaching.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

The Captain Class: The Hidden Force That... by Walker, Sam

The Captain Class: The Hidden Force That... by Walker, Sam

www.amazon.com.au

This book been referred to in the past. Claims best teams have one thing in common
A great captain. Not a great coach.

And there are plenty of biographies and books which talk about the importance of a great coach and strong football club setups and standards.

 

[JustaBattler]

Thing is he has been alot better, win/loss, than everyone bar Ratten this century. Bad cultures chew coaches and spit them out. You can't make a game plan work a with our player attitude, hence why 6 coaching changes have done nothing. Otherwise a new coach is wasting his time if that is not sorted.

Agree with "Forever Blue" above.

So Weitering/Walsh etc have seen 6 coaches out have they?