Bluemour Melting Pot XXIX

[Heres Waite]

So with the news of b70, it makes you wonder if the info that was passed to him “Clarko being interested and that he will give an answer soon” is true. To clarify, not doubting b70’s rumour or intentions, just if the insider who gave him the info was being genuine or was it a Lannister/Game of Thrones style trap.

 

[Blue1980]

Clarkson’s Mgr playing the Clarkson is very keen to have a year off card. If keeps going that way Lyon is firming.

Clarko also said he was definitely staying at hawks days before he ended up going.

Could just be a way to throw people off the scent and also out of respect to Teague.

Malthouse said similar stuff before he got appointed for us too.

 

[Coops93]

Maybe a cheeky name change is in order for b70..

A man can dream... ah well, I'll miss your info Barass! Thanks for the input over the years!

 

[mjonc43]

So what did I miss? A rumour posted that was a plant to catch a sneaky leaker?


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[TrueQldBlue]

Almost like the trade deadline

Yep

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[AndyWalkersGirl]

All good thanks

 

[Sam The Doc]

This thread Feels like putting together a puzzle that doesn’t have all the pieces

 

[BlueBoyKarva]

Any chance that Barass was part of the review and is now on the way out as a result?
Don't get me wrong, I come here to see what Barass posts

 

[norway blue]

Fear is the first port of call through some wild weather . A compass is important.


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[GapInIkonPark]

Sorry guys no more info from me.. Brett Temple..

Thanks barass70 and wish you all the best.

 

[RedFury]

I thought John contradicted himself, made it out like he knows Teague isn't going to be coaching anymore and Intel on Ckarkson and Lyon. Then says anyone that shares secrets with him isn't a Carlton man (someone would have told him about Teague the way he worded it).

Maybe read to much into it but found it interesting.

Thought exactly the same thing there. Unless he's been quoted out-of-context, it seems like he let the cat out of the bag with Teague not coaching next year (or he's assuming based on what he's heard) despite the club saying they haven't made any decision there yet.

 

[RedFury]

That's a nice thought but wrong. Culture comes from the top. Players need that external voice to guide and help, set up a place that they can receive quality feedback in and improve, keep training standards high etc.

When player cultural issues extend to more than 1 or 2 bad eggs it's simply down to poor coaching.

I'd say it's a bit of both. Quite possible that some player entitlement issues have absolutely been allowed to fester due to poor coaching leadership and poor player leadership.

 

[BlueTongue]

I'd say it's a bit of both. Quite possible that some player entitlement issues have absolutely been allowed to fester due to poor coaching leadership and poor player leadership.

Carlton's poor culture goes way beyond coaches & players.

It started with the Jack Elliot era, brown paper bags, the belief that 'War chests' and big bags of cash thrown at a player fixes all (and recent recruiting doesn't dispel that unfortunately), the lack of consequences for poor form and the constant Mollycoddling of 'Star Recruits' when form doesn't justify it, poor recruiting with the drafting players with an emphasis based on traits like athletics ability - instead of basic football skills, the continual experimentation with players out of their natural position, the lack of accountability by the club when dealing with players and addiction/poor social behavior, and my pet hate, which is at an all time worst ever under Liddle, is the constant wallpapering over poor losses, Mental fragility and the inability to put teams to the sword, with sickening fluff pieces and club propaganda almost immediately after.

I think Clarkson understands this should be given carte blanche to address it at all levels if he comes on-board.

 

[Manhattanite]

May or may not be bullsh*t I just made up, but I like this 'rumour' so I'll post it here.

Carlton will not show up against the giants next week, if * are relying on us to win so they can make finals.

Unfortunately it’s not true

* will make the Finals if they win their last two games against the Suns and the Pies because the Eagles will absolutely lose one of their last two games against the Dockers and Lions (at Gabba or third venue)

So the Giants and * will both make the Finals and they will both play “away” games against the Lions and Swans and hopefully the * finals wins drought continues




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[Manhattanite]

Hard to say if Teague has failed. 6 coaching changes have done nothing, which tells me it is a player culture issue. Teague has been our 2nd best coach this century by a fair margin. (pic says Teague's winning record is 48%, it's 44%). Pic below shows our general failure as a club more so than any coach.

Sure Teagues record isn’t bad but sometimes you have to be ruthless and say ok a coach ranked between 11-18 isn’t good enough

For example in 2006 Grant Thomas had led the Saints to three consecutive finals series but they got eliminated first round in 2006 and he got sacked and the Saints brought in Ross Lyon and he got them to two consecutive grand finals in 2009 and 2010 as well as the Prelim in 2008

Also another example was the Dockers in 2011 finished 11th after losing their last 7 games. Enter Ross Lyon and he got them into a Semi Final after 14 wins in his first season and then the Grand Final in his second season of 2013.

p.s. even though Lyons teams won 14+ games 6 times in his first 9 seasons as a coach and averaged 15 wins in those 9 seasons, his head to head record against Clarkson was just 4 wins in 15 matches




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[myblueroan]

Common sense is not a rumour.

Despite how much the media push it, there's no rush to make a decision or announcement before the season ends.

Unless David decides to walk...and who would blame him.

 

[myblueroan]

Can't wait to see the first post from barass71.
Should be a pearler.

Barass72 has a nice ring to it.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Barass72 has a nice ring to it.

Wouldn't it have to bee BigNick72?

 

[Beast__Mode]

I’ve asked this before and not received an answer, I’ll ask again. If you are of the belief Teague should stay, what on field outcomes that you can attribute to his and his coaching team’s strategy give you the confidence he is the person to lift #17?

I see nothing to suggest he is, and the only ‘reason’ I’ve seen given here is a generalised discomfort with the thought of sacking another coach. a sentiment I think most people here would share - certainly I do.

but I’m highly interested in people’s views on his performance as a coach that suggest to them he’s the right person.

 

[Santo the king]

And there are plenty of biographies and books which talk about the importance of a great coach and strong football club setups and standards.

Perhaps the conclusion its the sum of all parts.
When talking of the most dominant teams of this century.

Brisbane - inspiring captain and legendary coach and arguably best list of players this century. I have no clue regarding the rest of the club and culture but i will guess matthews plays are major role.

Geelong - captains often used as examples of picking best leader not best player. Great list of players and bomber was clearly a very good coach, perhaps not given the same credit as others, but had a massive impact on uplifting the club as a whole into one of the most professional clubs in afl. Brian cook i would argue was critical to their longevity as a benchmark club.

Hawks - captain, coach and club trifecta. All the ingredients needed. They also assembled a pretty good group of players, that performed when it counted in September.

Richmond - its well documented how selfless cotchin became and is a great leader, and so with dimma and the club getting theit shit together and a freak named martin they destroyed teams in sept. Their list was very good but not great.

There you go. You need most things right to become dominant, you cant succeed with a weak link.

 

[Monkey King]

Lyon deep in negotiations with the club. Clarko still the preference.

#Bluemour

I got a feeling Lyon is like our older players. He's hungry for the success he should've already had. He knows he's good enough.

When's the last time we saw a four-time premiership coach make the switch to a new club and win multiple flags?

Lyon will come to Carlton for all the right reasons. I'm not so sure Clarko will.

 

[X-Factor]

I got a feeling Lyon is like our older players. He's hungry for the success he should've already had. He knows he's good enough.

When's the last time we saw a four-time premiership coach make the switch to a new club and win multiple flags?

Lyon will come to Carlton for all the right reasons. I'm not so sure Clarko will.

I also think with Lyon being out of the coaching game for a little bit it has given him time to mentally refresh and set himself to go again. Out of all the potential coaches talked about, for me Lyon is the one that I want most.
Have listened to a few podcasts with Nat Fyfe, Matt DeBoer and Mick Barlow and the way they talked about him and what he did for Freo I would love that at Carlton


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[gbatman]

Hard to say if Teague has failed. 6 coaching changes have done nothing, which tells me it is a player culture issue. Teague has been our 2nd best coach this century by a fair margin. (pic says Teague's winning record is 48%, it's 44%). Pic below shows our general failure as a club more so than any coach.

Says a lot about the true problem.

 

[CJMB]

Thing is he has been alot better, win/loss, than everyone bar Ratten this century. Bad cultures chew coaches and spit them out. You can't make a game plan work a with our player attitude, hence why 6 coaching changes have done nothing. Otherwise a new coach is wasting his time if that is not sorted.

Agree with "Forever Blue" above.

You don’t think there’s been any changes in list quality over time?

So if we had a better ‘player attitude’, do you think Teague’s game plan would work? What parts? What about the bit where we tend to run hard from the stoppage and spread which completely opens us up down the corridor for a blazing fast d50 entry if we don’t win first possession and maintain it after he clearance? That’s my favourite.

I also love when we bomb it to a forward 50 target, despite who it is and who the match up is. I mean, it works some times with Harry and he’s 1v2 but then we try it with Eddie/Gibbo/etc….

We’re so slow to react on game day when changes clearly need to be made. It’s normally over a 2 quarters of someone/something carving us up before he even tries arresting it.


You say he’s our second most wining coach this century, but how much of that os actually due to him and how much of it rests on the shoulders of a few of the players and their individual brilliance?

The best 1v1 defensive duo. A generational midfield talent. Arguably the best contested and clearance player (when he’s going). A 204cm mobile tall forward leading the Coleman. 3 genuine game breaking talents on the flanks.

I’d be pretty surprised if there’s not 3 AA jackets there. We tend to play well when a group of them fire at the same time.

 

[Lace_Out]

Hard to say if Teague has failed. 6 coaching changes have done nothing, which tells me it is a player culture issue. Teague has been our 2nd best coach this century by a fair margin. (pic says Teague's winning record is 48%, it's 44%). Pic below shows our general failure as a club more so than any coach.

You need to factor in the list each coach was dealt.

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