Bluemour Melting Pot XXVI

[The Old Dark Navy's]

As per the Bluemour File OP, this is a thread for discussing Carlton related rumours.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-file.1085141/

Rumour posters should post their rumours in both threads for those that like just to read rumours and for those that like to have get lost in their rumour files.

Remember ... #Bluemour





Continued from here ...

Bluemour Melting Pot XXV

Continued here ... https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-melting-pot-xxvi.1250444/

www.bigfooty.com

Continued here:

Bluemour Melting Pot XXVII

As per the Bluemour File OP, this is a thread for discussing Carlton related rumours. http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-file.1085141/ Rumour posters should post their rumours in both threads for those that like just to read rumours and for those that like to have get lost in their...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[CrippasHeavyLoad]

If Essendon trump us with Geelong. Can’t we just go to Brisbane?

If * trade 7 for 15 & 20

We should just be demanding

8 for Saad + 20

Then try use 20 and 29 to trade up with the Dogs


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[teagueyubeauty]

There has been a lot of work done by Carlton, Saad and his management team to talk sense into the Saad deal. They’ve talked it down from 8 + (one of our under 22 year old first rounders) to working around us getting some change from Pick 8.
It’s at a tricky impasse at the moment. Daniher getting band 1 compo means any offer we make to split our pick 8 with Geelong or Brisbane can now be trumped by Essendon. The club is acutely aware of how negotiations went with Papley and Martin last year, and there is growing sentiment that when you convince a player to come, you need to make sure it happens smoothly, otherwise there are fears players and managers won’t want to work with us in the future.
As it stands the deal will have pick 8 going to the bombers with change yet to be agreed upon.

That is weak, you pay what you think he’s worth. This is nothing like Papley

I’ll be livid if we cave


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Jabba73]

papley

Had a deal negotiated and it was done pending the Daniher deal getting through. Swans would let him go if the other deal proceeded.

Once again * were unreasonable and the deal didn’t happen, hard to see how we are responsible for the deal between * and Swans falling over.

 

[sweethoney]

If * trade 7 for 15 & 20

We should just be demanding

8 for Saad + 20

Then try use 20 and 29 to trade up with the Dogs


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

There was someone on here the other day from the Brisbane board saying they are only taking 2 live picks this year. Good way for them to get in the top 10 if they trade there 2 firsts

 

[JustaBattler]

To me it makes sense. If we ask a player to nominate us then the onus is on Carlton to make to happen. If that is overs then that is overs. I am sure SOS has overpaid at some time. If we want Saad then we have to pay. I use to worry about picks and where they fell but when we look at the draft history, its a lottery. We want Saad he is going to make us to make us better, get it done. 8 with something back.

I get what you are saying and 8/10 the draft IS a KNOWN lottery - which is why the smarter Clubs use picks to get established players...but the smarter Clubs also NEVER overpay.

Do this deal and all it does is broadcast how soft the Club is - on field and off field - that is my concern.
Essendone dont seem to have a problem telling the player and player management world that they are hard to deal with and to expect to be dealt with harshly if you decide to leave...but somehow Carlton ahs to wear their nonsense?

I dont think so!

and then look at Saad the player coming in - knowing that he has cost Carlton too much and all the Carlton players knowing Saad has cost too much....it sets up the transition to a new Club on less than comfortable ground.

As for Papley - SOS stuffed that deal up every which way - twice over. No way should have hung around like wet dirty raincoat waiting for Dodoro to say no deal - was an absolute joke on us and probably cost Butler and or Wines.

I'd be going harder at Oliver now.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Treloar could be this year's best Moneyball / value pickup (whatever definition you use).

 

[Bronze]

Pick 8 sounds absurd I’m sorry I can’t accept it.

I agree 100%....I would love to deal with some of you guys when I sell my house.

 

[Premiership Quarter]

Correct. Plenty of options. Just need someone to stand tall to Dodo & *.

Could also wait for Geelong to give GWS 2 mid late first for Cameron which gives them 4 firsts and trade 8 for the latter two

 

[katmanblue]

View attachment 1000988

Notice how the hole is not at the bottom of the tank. Less pressure. You can still see it start to bulge.

 

[3rd Grade Maggy]

Man, I wish we could pay some bloke who is about to retire to nominate * as his club of choice as an unrestricted free agent. How good would it be, someone like Simmo goes full Campo, tells Essendon he feels he's still got two good years in him and the muppets sign him up, losing their FA compo. Then he quits.

 

[carlton_99]

Why don't we wait and see if somethings coming back with 8. Future 2nd and I think it would be a pretty good deal

 

[ETET]

I get what you are saying and 8/10 the draft IS a KNOWN lottery - which is why the smarter Clubs use picks to get established players...but the smarter Clubs also NEVER overpay.

Do this deal and all it does is broadcast how soft the Club is - on field and off field - that is my concern.
Essendone dont seem to have a problem telling the player and player management world that they are hard to deal with and to expect to be dealt with harshly if you decide to leave...but somehow Carlton ahs to wear their nonsense?

I dont think so!

and then look at Saad the player coming in - knowing that he has cost Carlton too much and all teh Carlton players knowing Saad has cost too much....it sets up the transition to a new Club on less than comfortable ground.

As for Papley - SOS stuffed that deal up every which way - twice over. No way should have hung around like wet dirty raincoat waiting for Dodoro to say no deal - was an abaoslute joke on uis and probabloy cost Butler and or Wines.

I'd be gong harder at Oliver now.

I hear you...very reasonable reply. See your point and mine.

 

[Karma Train]

There has been a lot of work done by Carlton, Saad and his management team to talk sense into the Saad deal. They’ve talked it down from 8 + (one of our under 22 year old first rounders) to working around us getting some change from Pick 8.
It’s at a tricky impasse at the moment. Daniher getting band 1 compo means any offer we make to split our pick 8 with Geelong or Brisbane can now be trumped by Essendon. The club is acutely aware of how negotiations went with Papley and Martin last year, and there is growing sentiment that when you convince a player to come, you need to make sure it happens smoothly, otherwise there are fears players and managers won’t want to work with us in the future.
As it stands the deal will have pick 8 going to the bombers with change yet to be agreed upon.

We talked it down from pick 8 plus a young gun? I dispute that, we never talked Dodo down because he knew he was never getting that in the first place. It is the 1980's strategy of asking for something ridiculous then working towards getting what you really want. Dodo always wanted pick 8, he played us, simple as that for me.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Would people accept 8 for Saad + future 2nd?

I’d rather picks in next years draft which from all reports will be stacked. That pick will likely be anywhere from picks 19-22 imo

Or
Essendon - Pick 8 (Blues)
Port - Orazio (Bombers)
Collingwood - Pick 27 (Port)
Carlton - Saad & Treloar (Plus $300k a year.. After what has come out today)

Pick 8 > Saad and Treloar

 

[Bronze]

If this supposed Oliver deal is happening then pick 8 will need to be used.

 

[Big_Luch]

This all wreaks of paying this essendon/dodorro tax if we trade pick 8 for him. That's absurd.

I cannot find any player in his position in recent memory that has attracted that kind of draft capital.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

pick #8 for an uncontracted hbf + change...

LOL .. if we do that trade we set a standard that we can't walk away from...

 

[katmanblue]

I'm pretty much resigned to just williams and saad PROVIDED the * trash don't get pick 8

If you told me we get them in August. I would have been over the moon.

Perspective.

 

[DangerousD]

Regardless of the fact Essendon got pick 7 as FA compo, giving pick 8 in a deal does not sit well with me based on the current situation.

We don’t need to worry about the Bombers gazumpng us in any deal with the Lions or Cats, they will do a deal with whoever offers the best deal for them.
Saad will be a good pick up, that doesn’t mean you overpay because * make it difficult, at the end of the day they need to deal otherwise they get nothing, they know this, this doesn’t mean we offer up crap.

As we saw with the Dockers and Saints last year, you can’t trade what you don’t have, Bell pushed too hard and the Saints went out and got other deals done, they came back with a lower offer than previous and the Dockers had to accept, the alternative was get nothing.

Put 8 on the table if we must but what comes back needs to be substantial, a pick 15-20

 

[La Dispute]

I know Essendon aren't very good but future second is probably around Pick 25 next year. Not another premium pick we can use to secure a similar player to Saad.

Wonder if the club has thought of alternative scenarios? Essendon would be the only club to take Saad back through the PSD, so we get Saad to put a 1-year 800k contract on himself and threaten to sit out next year if Essendon take him?

There's going to be some unusual tactics one way or another if we don't relent.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Poor Adam Treloar

1

Adam Treloar

Age

31

Ht

185cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

28.2

5star

K

12.9

5star

HB

15.3

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

4.9

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

30.3

5star

K

16.3

5star

HB

14.0

5star

M

2.0

2star

T

3.3

4star

CL

5.8

5star

D

18.0

5star

K

11.2

4star

HB

6.8

5star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

1.6

4star

. Never been a fan of him as a player, but **** he must be feeling so low righr now, can't help but worry about his mental/emotional state, especially given his battles with Anxiety (a horrible condition I know all too well )

The day we start treating our players like this is hopefully a day I will never see..

Shame on you Collingwood

Harry O or Lumumba or whatever the **** his name is will surely have something interesting to say about this......

Pies cannot seriously preach mental health, speed kills and side by side mantra’s ever again as they have breached them all over the years, they are an embarrassment to themselves and the code !!

 

[Jabba73]

I can live with Martin, Williams, Saad & an early second rounder for Pick 8.

I can live with Martin and Williams for free.

We are not a ****ing charity and neither of those acquisitions have any impact on the value of Saad. Still believe anything involving pick 8 going to * is paying well over the value of an out of contract back pocket.

 

[Smegger]

Not having Carlisle in that SF loss to Richmond stood out like you know what.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

I get what you are saying and 8/10 the draft IS a KNOWN lottery - which is why the smarter Clubs use picks to get established players...but the smarter Clubs also NEVER overpay.

Do this deal and all it does is broadcast how soft the Club is - on field and off field - that is my concern.
Essendone dont seem to have a problem telling the player and player management world that they are hard to deal with and to expect to be dealt with harshly if you decide to leave...but somehow Carlton ahs to wear their nonsense?

I dont think so!

and then look at Saad the player coming in - knowing that he has cost Carlton too much and all teh Carlton players knowing Saad has cost too much....it sets up the transition to a new Club on less than comfortable ground.

As for Papley - SOS stuffed that deal up every which way - twice over. No way should have hung around like wet dirty raincoat waiting for Dodoro to say no deal - was an abaoslute joke on uis and probabloy cost Butler and or Wines.

I'd be gong harder at Oliver now.

Totally agree JaB....from what we've just read, Dodoro now seems to be calling the shots, and I'm not sure why.

If Essendone threaten to trump us if we are looking to split with either the Cats or Lions, then deal with the other. If they gazump us on the Cats trade, then we deal with the Lions....which then in turn puts Dodo in a shitty position because they just traded away pick 7, and our pick 8 has gone to the Lions and off the table.

We can then offer them what we think Saad is worth in good faith, rather than letting them dictate terms of what they want.

Not sure how that would see our club in a bad light with other clubs/list managers if the Blues were willing to trade but Dodo once again playing hardball.

 

[Forty3]

Seems to be a bit of misunderstanding of my previous comment.

The club had no intention of getting ‘bent over’. The conversations surround what is a break even point from our perspective that we are happy with the levels we’ve paid. Obviously there is a massive discrepancy on here as to what Saads worth is.

Most people internally rate him as a mid-late first rounder. Our pick 8 will be minimum pick 10, potentially 11 come draft night. If we split with Brisbane, pick 17 will be mid 20s. No matter what we think here, this will not get the deal done.
So it comes down to at what point are you jeopardizing the improvement of the team, to win the trade.

If we pay 8 and third rounder for Saad and a 2nd, that is good value, as the second is a pick we can use in trade or draft.
If we don’t want to pay more than 8 and get Saad and a 3rd. Are we likely to use the 3rd round pick or will we be able to trade it for good return? With list sizes likely dropping by 2 and an incredibly compromised draft, probably not.

We can threaten the PSD or ND all we want, but realistically, trading in such poor faith hurts our brand more than many imagine. The worst part of this is the weeks and weeks of subconsciously devaluing Saad by many of our supporter base who are transfixed on winning a trade battle with Dodo rather than improving our side.

As I said at the start, the clubs not just going to get bent over for the sake of it, but we will not be walking away from the trade.