Bluemour Season Blast Off Edition XXXIII

[FRUMPY]

Couldn’t agree more. For the past ten years we have been umpired like a bad team. The benefit of the doubt always went against us as the assumption was, well their players aren’t any good so it’s probably their error. Commentators do the same.
This year the tide has turned a little. Well except for that cheat Williamson.
On a similar vein, if the umpires has cracked down on selwood at the start of his career they wouldn’t have the cluster frack they have now. They didn’t because he’s a “ great” player. Not respected, but great. IMHO


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Ill give you some homeowrk - go to the opposition game day thread and see how they think the umpires are performaing....

(ill save you the time - every club thinks they are getting screwed by the umpires every week, its called having a bias and watching games with one eye open - or they're a footy nuffie, the lines blur alot)

 

[branedotorg]

let's say you're right re cripps - how does the afl disseminate this to the umpires? as in, when and how?

i said memetic transfer, it's the vibe, it's the culture, it's a group think, it's an unconscious bias but it's not corruption.

 

[Accidental genius]

I like how the media/AFL are making an example of players like ginivin for the intentional ducking but the inventer of ducking ...Mr duckwood himself gets no mention. Pisses me off big time.

 

[Wickzki]

Please keep going, I am really interested in how only Carlton is singled out by the AFL

Our incompetence and corruption = AFL have it in for us.

 

[FRUMPY]

what penalty did we get for tanking? but they have it in for us....

 

[Wickzki]

what penalty did we get for tanking? but they have it in for us....

It's easier and feels better to blame than to accept organisational responsibility.

It's not just us. Look at every organisation in the world that suffers a downturn. You either take responsibility or you pass the buck.

Funny that nothing ever changes until you become accountable for your own actions.

Thank **** this is coming to an end for us (it won't until we've accomplished something again for as much as we've grown, the truth is in the pudding).

 

[Revenant1965]

I like how the media/AFL are making an example of players like ginivin for the intentional ducking but the inventer of ducking ...Mr duckwood himself gets no mention. Pisses me off big time.

I think there are 2 parts to this. One has to do with the tackle technique itself. It would seem to me that the likes of Ginnivan would still fall over if tackler stopped, whereas Selwood would remain upright. I think this is one aspect of the debate.

But other part has to do with how players speak of it in the media (see below). I'm not saying what's wrong or right, but how I see it...

‘It’s a great way to kick a goal’: Polarising Pie on playing for free kicks

Young gun also reveals he practices the technique at training.

7news.com.au

 

[katmanblue]

Don’t tell me we could of got him as well with a PP......

Don't go waving that PP around. This is a family friendly board.

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[Loramarthalas]

I’m no anti-vaxer but we don’t know the reasons why Jones’ didn’t get vaxed. All he has said is that it was for personal reasons. Whether it was for cultural reasons, a medical condition, he’s anti-vax, or he’s done genuine research and was concerned about the possible long term effects, we don’t know.

Don’t think it’s that simple to conclude he’s ignorant or was forced by propaganda.

At day’s end, he turned his career around and was an excellent player for Carlton


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If this is true, then why are Carlton so staunchly refusing to bring him back? If it's purely a medical thing, then there shouldn't be any barrier to his return. God knows, we could use him. But the fact that the club has firmly said he's not in our plans strongly suggests that he burned a few bridges with his actions. Remember at the time it happened, the club were also talking about trying to educate him, to help him understand it wasn't dangerous, before he made a final decision? Yeah -- it's not medical.

I don't have any dislike for Jones. He was a fantastic player.

 

[RPCB]

Ill give you some homeowrk - go to the opposition game day thread and see how they think the umpires are performaing....

(ill save you the time - every club thinks they are getting screwed by the umpires every week, its called having a bias and watching games with one eye open - or they're a footy nuffie, the lines blur alot)

Every sport has supporters who call umpires/referees shit. Can you personally say that you never have with Baseball and you think Angel Hernandez is fine? I am sure I have read posts of yours where you rip into Baseball umpires.

 

[FRUMPY]

Every sport has supporters who call umpires/referees s**t. Can you personally say that you never have with Baseball and you think Angel Hernandez is fine? I am sure I have read posts of yours where you rip into Baseball umpires.

of course i complain about umpires at times, but i dont think its a conspiracy or they are cheating because they hate carlton (or the braves)....

 

[RPCB]

of course i complain about umpires at times, but i dont think its a conspiracy or they are cheating because they hate carlton (or the braves)....

Point taken. I think it’s just the supporter mentality to blame the officials. But in the end, if we lose, it’s on us.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Ok… I’m staying clear of the others. But the salary cap penalties are an interesting one.

In 2003, Ben Buckley (I forget the title, but basically Deputy Head of the AFL) came to Hobart as a guest speaker for a marketing association. My role was to accompany him before and after his speech, and to get him to where he needed to be.

Of course, we chatted almost exclusively about football. I was still upset at the AFL sanctions and let him know. I made a comment along the lines of “what would have happened if you gave those penalties to Footscray? They wouldn’t have survived.”

His response… get ready… “we wouldn’t have given those penalties to the Bulldogs.”

Fair and reasonable post.

However the afl would say that the severity of the penalty had something to do with us having been fined twice in the previous 7 years for lesser breaches. Something like "we warned you but instead of listening you actually went and did worse".

I fully agree that the penalties were too far too strong. However we can hardly claim that we did nothing wrong.

 

[Forty3]

If this is true, then why are Carlton so staunchly refusing to bring him back? If it's purely a medical thing, then there shouldn't be any barrier to his return. God knows, we could use him. But the fact that the club has firmly said he's not in our plans strongly suggests that he burned a few bridges with his actions. Remember at the time it happened, the club were also talking about trying to educate him, to help him understand it wasn't dangerous, before he made a final decision? Yeah -- it's not medical.

I don't have any dislike for Jones. He was a fantastic player.

I’ll say this again.

Jones retired, mid contract. Settlements were made, payouts agreed upon by all parties. Those payment do not disappear from our salary cap.
I say this to reiterate the point that he cannot simply walk to another club without Carlton receiving compensation or agreeing to de register him.

Carlton did not impose the mandates. Whether you personally agree with the mandate or not, it is a moot point.
They were made by the governing body of the sport, not by our club.

There is no ill feelings towards Jones from the club, merely we have moved on. We’ve reinvested in that position, have plans to strengthen our depth using any compensation we get, and have a bit to do with what salary cap space we have left.

Remove the name from the scenario for a moment and you realise a 32 year old, having spent 12month out of the game doesn’t fit within our future list management strategy.

Liam with always be loved and respected by the club for the way he turned his career around, nobody wanted it to end between us this way. But both parties hands were tied by the power that be and both parties have amicably moved on.

 

[tarczonandjane]

Fair and reasonable post.

However the afl would say that the severity of the penalty had something to do with us having been fined twice in the previous 7 years for lesser breaches. Something like "we warned you but instead of listening you actually went and did worse".

I fully agree that the penalties were too far too strong. However we can hardly claim that we did nothing wrong.

I don’t disagree with your last sentence.

But to fill in another part of the puzzle. Buckley said they hit us that hard because they thought we could sustain the blow - financially and from a playing perspective. So it was hard on the basis of who we were, as much as on the nature of the misdemeanour.

 

[thylacine60]

I’ll say this again.
Jones retired, mid contract. Settlements were made, payouts agreed upon by all parties. Those payment do not disappear from our salary cap.
I say this to reiterate the point that he cannot simply walk to another club without Carlton receiving compensation or agreeing to de register him.
Carlton did not impose the mandates. Whether you personally agree with the mandate or not, it is a moot point. They were made by the governing body of the sport, not by our club.
There is no ill feelings towards Jones from the club, merely we have moved on. We’ve reinvested in that position, have plans to strengthen our depth using any compensation we get, and have a bit to do with what salary cap space we have left.
Remove the name from the scenario for a moment and you realise a 32 year old, having spent 12month out of the game doesn’t fit within our future list management strategy.
Liam with always be loved and respected by the club for the way he turned his career around, nobody wanted it to end between us this way. But both parties hands were tied by the power that be and both parties have amicably moved on.

Doesn't get any clearer or more informative than this.

 

[Wickzki]

I’ll say this again.
Jones retired, mid contract. Settlements were made, payouts agreed upon by all parties. Those payment do not disappear from our salary cap.
I say this to reiterate the point that he cannot simply walk to another club without Carlton receiving compensation or agreeing to de register him.
Carlton did not impose the mandates. Whether you personally agree with the mandate or not, it is a moot point. They were made by the governing body of the sport, not by our club.
There is no ill feelings towards Jones from the club, merely we have moved on. We’ve reinvested in that position, have plans to strengthen our depth using any compensation we get, and have a bit to do with what salary cap space we have left.
Remove the name from the scenario for a moment and you realise a 32 year old, having spent 12month out of the game doesn’t fit within our future list management strategy.
Liam with always be loved and respected by the club for the way he turned his career around, nobody wanted it to end between us this way. But both parties hands were tied by the power that be and both parties have amicably moved on.

Someone sticky this somewhere.

People are looking for scandal when there just isn't one there.

 

[macky99]

Would rather Jones just come back onto our list.

With our backline injury woes he would have been massive this year.

One of the best key defenders in the league. Could be the difference in a flag tilt in the next year or 2

It is not going to happen, l don't see him as a difference in a premiership tilt at all

I’ll say this again.
Jones retired, mid contract. Settlements were made, payouts agreed upon by all parties. Those payment do not disappear from our salary cap.
I say this to reiterate the point that he cannot simply walk to another club without Carlton receiving compensation or agreeing to de register him.
Carlton did not impose the mandates. Whether you personally agree with the mandate or not, it is a moot point. They were made by the governing body of the sport, not by our club.
There is no ill feelings towards Jones from the club, merely we have moved on. We’ve reinvested in that position, have plans to strengthen our depth using any compensation we get, and have a bit to do with what salary cap space we have left.
Remove the name from the scenario for a moment and you realise a 32 year old, having spent 12month out of the game doesn’t fit within our future list management strategy.
Liam with always be loved and respected by the club for the way he turned his career around, nobody wanted it to end between us this way. But both parties hands were tied by the power that be and both parties have amicably moved on.

Great points, people need to realise Jones is at the back end of his career, and Young has been fantastic and is much younger and more upside, as mentioned we also have the opportunity post season to draft some young talls or invest in someone much younger than a 32 year old Jones.

Jones is NOT going to be the difference between having a successful premiership tilt.

 

[FRUMPY]

I don’t disagree with your last sentence.

But to fill in another part of the puzzle. Buckley said they hit us that hard because they thought we could sustain the blow - financially and from a playing perspective. So it was hard on the basis of who we were, as much as on the nature of the misdemeanour.

We get marquee games because of who we are, we get a lot of good shit because of who we are......

 

[Sector 7G]

Fair and reasonable post.

However the afl would say that the severity of the penalty had something to do with us having been fined twice in the previous 7 years for lesser breaches. Something like "we warned you but instead of listening you actually went and did worse".

I fully agree that the penalties were too far too strong. However we can hardly claim that we did nothing wrong.

The penalties were only too harsh because normally teams penalised for cheating the salary cap are at the top of the ladder. Somehow we were cheating while being a terrible team. Massive difference in losing pick 1 rather than pick 15. Unfortunately this was self inflicted. Can't do the time don't do the crime.

 

[FRUMPY]

The penalties were only too harsh because normally teams penalised for cheating the salary cap are at the top of the ladder. Somehow we were cheating while being a terrible team. Massive difference in losing pick 1 rather than pick 15. Unfortunately this was self inflicted. Can't do the time don't do the crime.

We can't even cheat well......add to that we gave a brown paper bag to Stephen o'rielly....

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[Funk]

100% agree with this.

AFL can’t keep suspending players for accidental contact with an opponent’s head - then give free kicks to players who deliberately initiate contact to their own head.

F***ing ridiculous - but then it’s the AFL we’re talking about so why should I be surprised………

Hmmmmmm

Does someone at the AFL read BF?

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

 

[katmanblue]

. However we can hardly claim that we did nothing wrong.

I have not seen one person on here claim that we didn't.

That's not the issue, as you are well aware.

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[BigFrizz36]

I have not seen one person on here claim that we didn't.

That's not the issue, as you are well aware.

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I was responding to someone who said that the dogs would not have been penalised as heavily as us.

My response was that I think we were way too heavily penalised but we had two recent priors for salary cap infringements so the afl could say (with some justification) that we were recidivists, and as a result increase the fine.

Not sure why you cherry picked that little bit?