Club Mgmt. Board of Directors as led by President Dave Barham

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"If you don't prepare properly, don't give your all on match day, conduct yourself as a professional athlete on and off the field, I don't think you will be here long you will be gifted games based on your age and experience"

Barham is living in a fantasy land where you say words and don't back them up. We all know Brad and the team selection committee and what they stand for.
 
LB#16 said:
"If you don't prepare properly, don't give your all on match day, conduct yourself as a professional athlete on and off the field, I don't think you will be here long you will be gifted games based on your age and experience"

Barham is living in a fantasy land where you say words and don't back them up. We all know Brad and the team selection committee and what they stand for.
Click to expand...

They’ve been saying the exact same thing for two years.

Just stop with this shit and get to work building a squad that can win a flag.
 

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LB#16 said:
"If you don't prepare properly, don't give your all on match day, conduct yourself as a professional athlete on and off the field, I don't think you will be here long you will be gifted games based on your age and experience"

Barham is living in a fantasy land where you say words and don't back them up. We all know Brad and the team selection committee and what they stand for.
Click to expand...
Well maybe some who people expected games did not prepare like a professional athlete or went of script as far as game plan goes .
There where some team selections they got wrong for sure but that happens at every club that is trying to find a new identity and even some clubs who have found the path.
I would say that the stand with Laverde and Stringer not being offered automatic extensions says we are doin this. Heppell was not gifted too many in the last 6 weeks. They only made one error with Goldy before they parked him. They should have given Parish a VFL game before he got the nod . There where issues but that is part of sorting out where we are at.
 
I have just seen so much evidence to the contrary that I have a hard time believing this posturing.
Like... if we get another year out of Perkins like the one we just saw in which he doesn't defend or chase or really do much of anything, or if we see Redman looking comfortable in these early years of his extension again next year, or Parish moving back to d50 at a leisurely stroll... are they gonna be booted? Cos I don't suspect they will be...
The hardball on Stringer and Lav is a good start, but I remember Scotty himself saying one of his weaknesses as coach was giving guys too many chances at North... but if these decisions are only made when outcomes have already happened, and not when its abundantly clear that they will, the damage will have already been done
 
justlookingaround said:
I have just seen so much evidence to the contrary that I have a hard time believing this posturing.
Like... if we get another year out of Perkins like the one we just saw in which he doesn't defend or chase or really do much of anything, or if we see Redman looking comfortable in these early years of his extension again next year, or Parish moving back to d50 at a leisurely stroll... are they gonna be booted? Cos I don't suspect they will be...
The hardball on Stringer and Lav is a good start, but I remember Scotty himself saying one of his weaknesses as coach was giving guys too many chances at North... but if these decisions are only made when outcomes have already happened, and not when its abundantly clear that they will, the damage will have already been done
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Well there is no Dodoro in the football department to tell everyone how good his boys are now.
I know Scott has done two seasons now but the first season was more looking at our system and working out how to change the footy department. They ran a basic game plan and put it in cruise control. I know that does not appease the punters but it is what they did. Now it has run another year where they made some serious inroads into the standard of preparation so they next step is personal.
People with call "bull shit" but it is what it is and how they approached it. Right or wrong. It is the product of head hunting a coach that was the third choice who came in late without any in depth list analysis.
 
justlookingaround said:
I have just seen so much evidence to the contrary that I have a hard time believing this posturing.
Like... if we get another year out of Perkins like the one we just saw in which he doesn't defend or chase or really do much of anything, or if we see Redman looking comfortable in these early years of his extension again next year, or Parish moving back to d50 at a leisurely stroll... are they gonna be booted? Cos I don't suspect they will be...
The hardball on Stringer and Lav is a good start, but I remember Scotty himself saying one of his weaknesses as coach was giving guys too many chances at North... but if these decisions are only made when outcomes have already happened, and not when its abundantly clear that they will, the damage will have already been done
Click to expand...

well Scott is about to enter year 3 of a 4 year deal.

so the honeymoons over. If he doesn't start results in 2025, that can set up to be bettered in 2026 (his final year), he is goooooooone.
 
ant555 said:
Well maybe some who people expected games did not prepare like a professional athlete or went of script as far as game plan goes .
There where some team selections they got wrong for sure but that happens at every club that is trying to find a new identity and even some clubs who have found the path.
I would say that the stand with Laverde and Stringer not being offered automatic extensions says we are doin this. Heppell was not gifted too many in the last 6 weeks. They only made one error with Goldy before they parked him. They should have given Parish a VFL game before he got the nod . There where issues but that is part of sorting out where we are at.
Click to expand...
Lav doesn't seem like the sort of guy who doesn't put in the effort, he is limited talent wise but he does whatever the coach asks of him and puts his body on the line every week.
And to counter Heppell not being gifted games, they kept gifting games to menzie, perkins and cox for far too long this season.
I was all on board with Brad saying similar statements at the end of 2023, but the mixed messaging this year has me worrying it's a bit of talking the talk but not walking the walk.
 
joey_jo_jo said:
Lav doesn't seem like the sort of guy who doesn't put in the effort, he is limited talent wise but he does whatever the coach asks of him and puts his body on the line every week.
And to counter Heppell not being gifted games, they kept gifting games to menzie, perkins and cox for far too long this season.
I was all on board with Brad saying similar statements at the end of 2023, but the mixed messaging this year has me worrying it's a bit of talking the talk but not walking the walk.
Click to expand...
It is a bit different for Menzie / Perkins / Cox . That is more about future development and in the Menzie case all our small forwards had issues of some kind. How many games does he get if Guelfi is not injured ?
Could also say that if Hobbs does not get injured maybe Perkins goes out of the side sooner. It is not that black and white.
 
ant555 said:
It is a bit different for Menzie / Perkins / Cox . That is more about future development and in the Menzie case all our small forwards had issues of some kind. How many games does he get if Guelfi is not injured ?
Could also say that if Hobbs does not get injured maybe Perkins goes out of the side sooner. It is not that black and white.
Click to expand...
I probably shouldn't have named menzie as I think he is in the same boat as Lav of doing whatever is asked of him but a bit limited talent wise.
I think I misunderstood your response as I thought you were bringing up Lav and Hepp as examples of the coaches sticking to their word re rewarding performance/doing what is asked of you in games/on training track.

That is how I read Scott's comments last year and then Barhams today and it's why I feel a bit jaded as I don't think it was consistently shown at selection table nor now in trade period.
 
joey_jo_jo said:
I probably shouldn't have named menzie as I think he is in the same boat as Lav of doing whatever is asked of him but a bit limited talent wise.
I think I misunderstood your response as I thought you were bringing up Lav and Hepp as examples of the coaches sticking to their word re rewarding performance/doing what is asked of you in games/on training track.

That is how I read Scott's comments last year and then Barhams today and it's why I feel a bit jaded as I don't think it was consistently shown at selection table nor now in trade period.
Click to expand...
Selection had its mysteries but you get that when you are trying to build something out of dust and weeds. Lots of people mock the notion of match sim having "some" bearing on selection until the season gets into the back half but if you can not stay on page in an organized drill then what chance do you have on match day ? Now I will repeat for those who want to take it out of context again , "some" bearing on selection. Not all. Not half. Some. It is a fine line to balance out on field playing ability v ability to follow a game plan early on when they are learning it. The ability to attempt to play the game plan often allows blokes to stay in the side for a period longer than it should based on just looking at output.
In cases like Cox and Perkins I do not personally believe that they did not try . More a case of Cox not having confidence in the body and Perkins is more loss of confidence in simply not having the footy IQ to fulfil the role. I know some call him lazy but it is easy to look lazy when you expend too much energy playing catch up due to not having the ability to transition into the next phase quick enough.
My views are based on talking with various coaches from AFL level guys down to successful local footy coaches and junior coaches.
Because of my very limited athletic ability as far as speed and agility goes my footy career in country footy was based more on how much I could learn about the game and play a role more than ability. I played probably 60/40 as far as senior / reserves footy goes and it was mainly Div 2 and Div 3 level but that quest for an advantage shaped how I look at footy and then a lot of years working as an assistant / development coach at a few clubs has shaped it again. I have never really looked at footy as a spectator / spectator. I am the bloke at the footy that spends most of his time looking where the ball is not.
Not saying I do not get a lot of stuff wrong but it is why I think the way I do.
 
He’s not a good frontman Barham, some of his media appearances have been torturous. His latest appearance doesn’t fill me with any confidence. But I hear he’s very good behind the scenes. He has the biggest job in football. Essendon are ****ing huge. We are also ****ing embarrassing.
The stress levels must be high.
 
ant555

Is the voice of reason also human*?

ant555 said:
It was what I thought a standard type of speech as such. Problem is the patience factor. Supporters do not want to know that it will take time despite the messaging being about building a more professional program from the start of Scott's time. Too many people wanting something as it is two years in and not really knowing the first year in was more a review of the club by Scott and Vozzo and what you could say was a wasted year and the real work started from last pre season.
In real terms nearly all the changes in the football department are 1 year old and the simple fact is in the AFL wholesale changes tend to take 2 or 3 or 4 years to develop. Throw in the inevitable situation that not all player decisions (list and selection) will appease and the patience wears thin.

It is why I sit on the fence a lot and argue some of the points. My view is despite the angst about another failed start to a rebuild it has to see its course. Was also thinking yesterday that maybe I am not as desperate to see success as others as I have seen us win 4 flags and been there to see them live. Also the other sporting team I have as much passion for , the Panthers , are now lining up in GF number 5 in a row and have won all 5 of their premierships in the last 25 years and I have been to 3 of them. Maybe I have had it a little too good to get totally despondent about our current plight despite wanting to really see the red and back back at the top end.

Could also be the lesson I learnt from my late step dad who followed Fitzroy . For him following his team was being able to go to the footy every week win lose and draw and savor the wins when you can. His team was not the defining factor in his mood in life. Happiness through family , friends and a nice but not extravagant income from his business drove him. There was always next week and when the Lions merged he simply moved on to following the local footy side and going each week and volunteering there where he could.
Click to expand...

ant555 said:
Selection had its mysteries but you get that when you are trying to build something out of dust and weeds. Lots of people mock the notion of match sim having "some" bearing on selection until the season gets into the back half but if you can not stay on page in an organized drill then what chance do you have on match day ? Now I will repeat for those who want to take it out of context again , "some" bearing on selection. Not all. Not half. Some. It is a fine line to balance out on field playing ability v ability to follow a game plan early on when they are learning it. The ability to attempt to play the game plan often allows blokes to stay in the side for a period longer than it should based on just looking at output.
In cases like Cox and Perkins I do not personally believe that they did not try . More a case of Cox not having confidence in the body and Perkins is more loss of confidence in simply not having the footy IQ to fulfil the role. I know some call him lazy but it is easy to look lazy when you expend too much energy playing catch up due to not having the ability to transition into the next phase quick enough.
My views are based on talking with various coaches from AFL level guys down to successful local footy coaches and junior coaches.
Because of my very limited athletic ability as far as speed and agility goes my footy career in country footy was based more on how much I could learn about the game and play a role more than ability. I played probably 60/40 as far as senior / reserves footy goes and it was mainly Div 2 and Div 3 level but that quest for an advantage shaped how I look at footy and then a lot of years working as an assistant / development coach at a few clubs has shaped it again. I have never really looked at footy as a spectator / spectator. I am the bloke at the footy that spends most of his time looking where the ball is not.
Not saying I do not get a lot of stuff wrong but it is why I think the way I do.
Click to expand...

* unlike many posters here who are hard core burn it to the ground and suffer years of pain because maybe that’s a strategy that may pay off in 6 years.
 

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threeleggedgoat said:
...are you ok with your superannuation fund not performing?
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only fund I am a part of that isn't performing is Essendon.

my return on investment is negative.
 
joey_jo_jo said:
That is how I read Scott's comments last year and then Barhams today and it's why I feel a bit jaded as I don't think it was consistently shown at selection table nor now in trade period.
Click to expand...
How can you judge selection decisions when no one outside of the club knows what criteria they are looking for? Certainly some may have led to a poor on field result or two throughout the year but hypothetically if attitude and culture are being given as much weight as pure footballing ability they may have made a correct decision by their internal criteria
 
Lore said:
The most interesting line imo was actually the part where he said “whatever happened before the reset doesn’t matter”.
Click to expand...
he said that as he implored everyone to stick fat as members and supporters.
But my point is, we have heard all of that (and more) before!
I know what's being asked of us and why.
But the club needs to clear its ears out too.
We have heard all the ****ing speeches in the world. ****ing show us!!!
 
He talks about shaping up or shipping out but really, it’s just empty rhetoric as we’re not placed to do anything meaningful in terms of shipping out.

I’ll say it again, our list is in quite a bad spot.

Laverde and Stringer aren’t tough decisions, they’re just the most obvious, logical moves for a club that is not contending and needs to overhaul its list somewhat.

Scott has been there for two years. If there’s guys that aren’t on board and not putting in what’s required then they 100% know it by now. They don’t need a third year to tell them that.

I think they probably need to come to terms with that fact that the list is possibly not very good.

And by that I mean in terms of actual performance, not talent. We might have plenty of talent but if it doesn’t perform for any reason (such as injury) then it’s no use.

We have some guys on very long contracts who would be better used as trade bait.

We gave Ridley a long contract, then spent big money bringing in McKay. I’m fairly sure they thought McKay was a defensive beast because of his size but he’s not - he’s a lot more like Ridley than many believe. An interceptor. If you’ve got a pretty good set of hands, which both do, you can do that job quite well.

But now we have two of them who would both be better off in the same role, on huge money and long contracts. We don’t need them both for so much money.

Reid has talent but can’t get on the park so doesn’t bear consideration, unfortunately.

Redman looks good in a freewheeling role but he’s just a cherry on top player, he’s not taking us anywhere. Big money, long contract.

Parish is a small accumulator who has had Caldwell and Durham go past him. Big money, long contract on a fourth wheel mid.

You have limited salary cap and draft picks and all these guys could be better utilised in trades for a club that is where we are at, which is nowhere. We’re not contending. Are we rebuilding? Nobody seems to know.

I would love to be proven wrong but Cox just seems a totally obvious bust. He has no position or hunger for the contest.

Tsatas, Perkins and Hobbs definitely need midfield minutes to develop but we can’t give them because of the glut of Merrett, Durham, Caldwell, Parish. Even Shiel was getting games ahead of them this year.

We need a coherent list strategy and the balls to make big decisions. Not sure we have either. All the “shape up or ship out!” repetitive shit doesn’t matter when we’re not good enough and can’t develop players.
 

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Club Mgmt. Board of Directors as led by President Dave Barham

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