Bombers 1. accused of asking Mick Gatto to help fix doping mess and 2. covering up Medicare fraud
- Thread starter Muggs
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Logic would also suggest Doc Reid would have had a passing interest in knowing what players were being injected with, you know being a Doctor and all. Funny once he wrote the letter no one ever saw, he seemed to lose interest in the matter. And to think he is dirty with the AFL over this.
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Don't you find that odd when AFL clubs keep records of everything?.
It again raises the question , "if they had nothing to hide why didn't they keep the records?"
Surely the only reason you wouldn't keep records was that you had something to hide?
Doc Reid was present when NLM had injections, so he clearly knew what was used there. The letter he wrote resulted in meetings where Dank and Robinson agreed to keep Reid informed whenever they selected new substances were selected
NoAFLinmycomp
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I was careful not to use "Dank" and "reliable" in the same sentence, inclusive of each other!
He was spruiking the sameline again in this one from a year ago:
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...l/news-story/15a31fc9fc10f714b2bfd346ea6996b8
"...
Dank also maintained his narrative that extensive records of the supplements program were kept, despite a number of investigations finding otherwise.
He is adamant that documentation detailing what was administered to players is “certainly in the keeping of at least ASADA”, and “probably the AFL as well”.
“I know that one exists,” he said.
“Certainly from my end, I believe there is proof that exists in terms of what the players took and that substantiates everything that I’ve said all the way along.
“(The idea that they were deleted by someone at Essendon) has been put to me by two people, two people who I believe are fairly well placed to support that theory”.
..."
Now he might just be hanging all this on Wallis' spreadsheet. Interesting to see what Wallis thinks of his "photo of a photo" and "the spreadsheet", now that he is on the outer.
looking at how Dank worked at Cronulla he was given free reign to run his program as he saw fit. Dank was completely disorganised and didnt even believe records were even his job. I highly doubt Essendon knew this was how he operated. Cronulla certainly didnt know when they confronted him about their lack of records
There was no doubt he was excluded, but I reckon that to a fair extent was his choice. He knew what was happing was dodgy (as shown by his letter), but unlike the doctor at the Sharks turned a blind eye to it all. Legally responsible no, morally ?
Muggs
Premiership Player
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- #610
Personally don't find it odd in a club with poor governance, where everyone trusted everyone else to do what they told with no controls or checks in place. Seen this happen in business.
Just takes one person like Dank who thought he knew better to make the system fall apart.
Dank had something to hide most likely but that does not mean the club actually knew what was going on.
Should they have and did they are two different things.
couldnt have said it better myself
I was careful not to use "Dank" and "reliable" in the same sentence, inclusive of each other!
He was spruiking the sameline again in this one from a year ago:
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...l/news-story/15a31fc9fc10f714b2bfd346ea6996b8
"...
Dank also maintained his narrative that extensive records of the supplements program were kept, despite a number of investigations finding otherwise.
He is adamant that documentation detailing what was administered to players is “certainly in the keeping of at least ASADA”, and “probably the AFL as well”.
“I know that one exists,” he said.
“Certainly from my end, I believe there is proof that exists in terms of what the players took and that substantiates everything that I’ve said all the way along.
“(The idea that they were deleted by someone at Essendon) has been put to me by two people, two people who I believe are fairly well placed to support that theory”.
..."
Now he might just be hanging all this on Wallis' spreadsheet. Interesting to see what Wallis thinks of his "photo of a photo" and "the spreadsheet", now that he is on the outer.
Here's one for you.
Dank, in his interview with Nick McKenzie, stated several times that 'we did regular bloods'. Unless he was making that all up, and remember this is before everything blew up, then those blood tests surely constitute at least part of the records that 'don't exist'.
The agency that performed the tests and returned the results must surely have records of those tests. Add to that the testing for AOD9604 was to be used to later spruik the sales of AOD9604 and for that, records would have been needed to establish any efficacy.
It seems that some records must surely exist or did exist at some point in time. So, where are they now? Who was the firm that ran the 'bloods' for Dank and what records to they have? Did ASADA ever get to access them? Did the players ever get to access them? Hal Hunter?
From memory, any lawyer feel free to correct me on this, medical records actually belong to the individual not to the doctor. Surely the players would be anting access to their own medical records. Hal Hunter apparently did.
Surely if you were sailing close to the edge, or pushing boundaries, then you would document the shit out of it so that you could prove that it was at least technically within the code. And how did they pay for it? Cash, no receipt, without the club knowing?
Credit card , great way to get ff points
Well there's goes 99% of the BF population into jail then.....
Muggs
Premiership Player
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- #616
As I said what the should have and do did are two separate things.
The payment/receipt is one thing I'm in interested in. From what I read supplements went way over budget so that tells me no controls in place.
Dank seemed to have arranged things himself so doubt there were proper requisition/payment procedures, and suspect his suppliers gave very little in way of details on invoices or receipts.
From everything I read EFC had shocking procedures, would not surprise me if procedures had remained the same for years, decades and had not grown and adapted as the club became more commercial. Plenty of stuff I shake my head at that in hindsight should have been obvious red flags.
Seen the same thing happen when small business grows into a larger business, just to have someone fleece them.
Trust is a dangerous thing misplaced.
Muggs
Premiership Player
- Thread starter
- #617
Owned by doctor or practice
At common law, a patient does not have a right of access to his or her medical records. However, under privacy legislation, patients have a right to request access to their records. Access must be provided subject to any limitations and procedures set out in the legislation.
http://www.avant.org.au/resources/s...tions/systems-and-procedures/medical-records/
http://www.mcnsw.org.au/page/old-policies/medical-records-patient-guide/
Muggs
Premiership Player
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- #618
The 'bloods' though were testing for the effects of what was given, they need not be records of what was given.
Could well be that ASADA and the players defense team both had access to these but from what was administered point of view completely useless.
I never anticipated the 'bloods' would indicate what was taken but if you go to the trouble to tracking the effects, you must surely keep records of those effects and their attendant 'supplements' regime. Remember, there was potentially a lot of money riding on the AOD investments.
I do not believe for a minute that a program involving potential investments in a performance enhancing drug, a program that involved 'regular bloods' and a program that had senior members of the club as potential investors could be run without keeping extensive records. Even the sloppiest 'sports scientist' couldn't run an operation like that.
No. I think they at least existed at some point. I'd not be surprised to find they still exist in some form somewhere. I am surprised that a club that tracks everything from dietary information, training regime, weights programme, 3 km times etc could run a program involving 'regular bloods' and not have records. Who paid for the damn tests? Where are the results? What did they get for their money?
None of that adds up.
Does AFL demand clubs document all medical / science procedures, tests, assessments, medicals etc? Does AFL Integrity regularly audit these records?
Who audits sporting organisations like AFL in Australia?
British Cycling seems to have had difficulty keeping up with it:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/...-cycling-fire-missing-medical-records-latest/
Muggs
Premiership Player
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- #621
I'm of the view the club trusted Dank to keep the records, and probably thought he was.
They trusted he knew what he was doing with the tests and supplements thus paid the bills.
No one checked to see if Dank was actually doing what he should, or if the stuff they were paying for was legit.
Did Dank keep his own records who knows, I would not put it past him to fabricate results for his "research".
Nothing I've read tells me Essendon had anything approaching reliable records.
Thats certainly one possible explanation. I wouldn't dispute any of that.
I also wouldn't be surprised if it turns out Dank does have the records stashed away somewhere as he can apparently 'prove' the players did nothing wrong and is only waiting for the right time and place to do so. Seeming Charters has records and will prove it was only miso soup (4 on the menu) and will do so if he's paid 800k. It seems everybody has records to prove something but nobody is willing to show anything just yet.
As for Dank's claim about having no records, that has as much credibilty as his claims he can 'prove' the players took nothing banned.
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Nothing easy about being doped by drugs not fit for human consumption or being bullied by club coz you have taken legal action against it.
- Jan 16, 2016
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So what your saying is EFC did not believe in keeping records.
No, Essendon trusted Dank would keep records as an essendon employee
