Bonfire in Redfern

[jim boy]

I didn't think much of what Ghost wrote. The whole tone of the piece was condesdending and patronising. For example to say that aboriginals have a problem with alcohol is fine, to say that we must stop them from getting access to it is a bolt from the thinking of the 1950's. Only one community has the right to say to no alcohol for aboriginals, and that is the aboriginal community.

Also the idea that the aboriganal community(which Ghosts think's he owns) must integrate into the white community is a further throwback to the days of stolen generation. Why shouldn't aborinal communities live the sort of cultural life they want to live? And why does Ghost just assume they all won't to go bush and chuck a few spears around?

My own opinion is that the police probabaly did as well as they could during the actual riot and that the riot itself was unnacceptable. But to focus purely on the riot as if it were apart and seperate from everything else is folly.

 

[EssJayW]

Mantis

Maybe WA is 20 years behind.

 

[mantis]

Originally posted by EssJayW
Mantis

Maybe WA is 20 years behind.

Maybe.

 

[Katthawk]

Originally posted by Jim Boy
I didn't think much of what Ghost wrote. The whole tone of the piece was condesdending and patronising. For example to say that aboriginals have a problem with alcohol is fine, to say that we must stop them from getting access to it is a bolt from the thinking of the 1950's. Only one community has the right to say to no alcohol for aboriginals, and that is the aboriginal community.

Also the idea that the aboriganal community(which Ghosts think's he owns) must integrate into the white community is a further throwback to the days of stolen generation. Why shouldn't aborinal communities live the sort of cultural life they want to live? And why does Ghost just assume they all won't to go bush and chuck a few spears around?

My own opinion is that the police probabaly did as well as they could during the actual riot and that the riot itself was unnacceptable. But to focus purely on the riot as if it were apart and seperate from everything else is folly.

Why patronizing? The gist I got was simply about not continuing the blame game. What is wrong with some integration especially if they want to live in the city? I am sorry if I speak using 'they' but I am not aboriginal.

I would just like to see people on both sides somehow recognize that even if an apology would rectify the pain of the past, surely at some stage people just have to get on with getting along. Sometimes to give up and move on can work wonders.

I apologize if this sounds simplistic. I have very simplistic views about life. I don't mean to offend.

 

[mantis]

Originally posted by Katthawk
Sometimes to give up and move on can work wonders.

I apologize if this sounds simplistic. I have very simplistic views about life. I don't mean to offend.

Not only simplistic, but spoken by someone who has absolurely no idea, what being an aboriginal is like & what they have to deal with om a daily basis.

Imagine your life, where people look at your skin colour & look down on you & make derogatory comments about you, even though they have no idea what type of person you are.

Try it sometime.

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by Jim Boy
For example to say that aboriginals have a problem with alcohol is fine, to say that we must stop them from getting access to it is a bolt from the thinking of the 1950's. Only one community has the right to say to no alcohol for aboriginals, and that is the aboriginal community.

Hmm, that bit slipped my mind. Banning aborigines from alcohol is not an option. I know one NW WA town has done it, but that was the aborigines who proposed it.

Also the idea that the aboriganal community(which Ghosts think's he owns) must integrate into the white community is a further throwback to the days of stolen generation.

I don't think it's necessarily about itegrating into 'white' society, but integtrating into the modern world. When white europeans and aborigines met, the white europeans were roughly 2000 years more advanced in terms of technology and education.

They can still integrate and keep their culture/heritage in tact.

Why shouldn't aborinal communities live the sort of cultural life they want to live?

Nothing's stopping them, but they have to abide by the laws of this country.

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by mantis
Not only simplistic, but spoken by someone who has absolurely no idea, what being an aboriginal is like & what they have to deal with om a daily basis.

I wasn't aware that you were aboriginal.

nb sometimes a simplistic view is appropriate

 

[Katthawk]

Originally posted by mantis
Not only simplistic, but spoken by someone who has absolurely no idea, what being an aboriginal is like & what they have to deal with om a daily basis.

Imagine your life, where people look at your skin colour & look down on you & make derogatory comments about you, even though they have no idea what type of person you are.

Try it sometime.

You're right. I have no idea. I couldn't even imagine it. But at least I don't treat them in the way you say. It's not me you should be arguing with anyway. I don't treat anyone differently according to race or colour or anything.

What's wrong with having a simplistic view anyway! I can't change anyone else's point of view other than in the way I think, behave and treat others. That is all I was trying to get across.

 

[evade28]

Originally posted by mantis
Not only simplistic, but spoken by someone who has absolurely no idea, what being an aboriginal is like & what they have to deal with om a daily basis.

Imagine your life, where people look at your skin colour & look down on you & make derogatory comments about you, even though they have no idea what type of person you are.

Try it sometime.

how are we supposed to 'try it sometime'?

 

[pazza]

Les Twentyman has written an opinion piece about in today's Herald-Sun (for those who are unaware of Twentyman, he is from Open Family Support Services and is a highly publicised youth worker from the streets of Footscray).

He has basically said that this was always going to happen and things to need to change.

 

[mantis]

Originally posted by evade28
how are we supposed to 'try it sometime'?

Accompany an aboriginal for a day or two maybe, not real hard.

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by mantis
Accompany an aboriginal for a day or two maybe, not real hard.

Where can we hire them from and how much do they cost an hour?

 

[bunsen burner]

I noticed you mentioned two days? Is there a weekend package?

 

[evade28]

Originally posted by mantis
Accompany an aboriginal for a day or two maybe, not real hard.

well its not like i have any aboriginal friends. do you think one of them would mind if i stalked them for a couple of days?

 

[myee8]

I got friends who i aboriginals in which i knew since high school, top blokes they were and good footy players at that. I met them again by chance at some club recently and spent a great time catching up on what's been happening. Therefore my experience leads to me seeing aboriginals as generally decent people. I say generally as i have also seen aboriginals in the streets of Northbridge and the city, and on buses who act like absolute w*nk*rs, thinking they own the place. Seen an aboriginal family kicked off a bus for causing too much ruckus, and the family was defiant calling the bus driver racist. From that i can see why many people have such negative views on them.

 

[EssJayW]

Originally posted by mantis
Accompany an aboriginal for a day or two maybe, not real hard.

Excuse me, can I follow you around for a few days.

 

[mantis]

Originally posted by evade28
well its not like i have any aboriginal friends. do you think one of them would mind if i stalked them for a couple of days?

Sorry, I thought you were from WA, must be wrong, if you are from Vic or NSW then having any aboriginal friends is probably remote, but because I live here I have quite a few, all top people, with great jobs & the opposite of the stereotypes that are thrown around, yet, when they are out, they still get treated like scum.

 

[otaku]

maybe it is just the company they keep.

 

[Diego]

Originally posted by mantis
Not only simplistic, but spoken by someone who has absolurely no idea, what being an aboriginal is like & what they have to deal with om a daily basis.

Imagine your life, where people look at your skin colour & look down on you & make derogatory comments about you, even though they have no idea what type of person you are.

Try it sometime.

mantis I would love to see you down at the block, in you're element there you idiot.

I don’t give two hoots, the block is inhabitable by ratbags and people who do not want to improve their lifestyles.

And before any of you moronic half wits want to question me, buy a plane ticket to Sydney, then catch the train to Redfern, walk up the stairs, walk out and cross the road.

Once you're in there..sit down for 5 minutes and see how long you last. See how much sympathy you get for being do gooders. I bet you won't last 1 minute without some ratbag trying to mug you or somebody abusing you b/c you don’t give them money or the colour of your skin.

Go on , I dare you do gooders to even attempt to go down there.

BTW I have stated this in another thread, I have been ONE of the VICTIMS who was mugged by an ABORIGINAL MOTHER while I was walking through Lawson St to a mates place.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Not all of us have the opportunity to participate in an episode of Jane Elliot's 'Blue Eyed', and I'm certainly not going to force myself onto a member of the Aboriginal community just so that I get to "try it sometime".

I feel I'm in something of a bind. If I treat Koori's like I treat everybody else who passes through my orbit (which, incidentally, is my first preference), I'm accused of not understanding the special needs of being aboriginal, and not recognising what "they have to deal with om(sic) a daily basis".

However, if I treat theirs or any other culture differently (a situation I would personally find a little uncomfortable), surely I'm opening myself up to accusations of discrimination - positive or negative.

Yes, that's simplistic. And no, I'm not naive enough to think that the entire issue is not far more complex than what I've outlined above. However, I believe that I'm not alone in preferring to approach these things in a "bottom-up" kind of fashion, particularly when I am, as might be stated, unaware what's it's really like to be black.

I'm honestly not sure what it is that the Koori wants of me.

In the opinion of the whitey's on this board who claim to be more expert in the thinking of our indigenous people than I and many others, or even from a Koori him/herself, please tell me now what is required of me.

I will try to acquiesce in my everyday life.

 

[Mr Q]

Originally posted by mantis
Sorry, I totally disagree with all the above, I have lived in Perth for 18 years & I cam tell you that the attitude towards aboriginals hasn't changed one bit.

Maybe it's just WA, but they are still looked down on & stereotyped, look at the thread on the general board, the majority of people who are sledging them are from WA & under 21.

I have quite a few aboriginal friends & I see the way people look at them & hear what they say when we are out at a pub or club..

Even going to the beach, you hear the racist comments from people.

Quite frankly the sooner you **** off back to Victoria the happier you'll be and the better WA will be. There are rednecks in every part of the country, and your tarring of West Australians is no less stereotypical than the viewpoint you look down on.

Just because you're not happy with your life you should stop assuming its the fault of those around you. Take your aboriginal friends back to Victoria and I reckon that you'd find the same number and class of ******** there that you find in WA. I'd guess the only reason you see more of it in WA is that the Aboriginal population is a higher percentage of the population here than in some other states.

 

[Joel]

Originally posted by mantis
Accompany an aboriginal for a day or two maybe, not real hard.

...what, should we just go find and aboriginal on the street, and follow him/her around? Dumb post.

 

[The Mongrel Punt]

Originally posted by mantis
Sorry, I thought you were from WA, must be wrong, if you are from Vic or NSW then having any aboriginal friends is probably remote

As if people needed more incentive to move to Vic or NSW

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by Mr Q
There are rednecks in every part of the country, and your tarring of West Australians is no less stereotypical than the viewpoint you look down on.

For a person (mantis) who continually whinges about people stereotyping, you'd think she wouldn't do it herself. It's been pointed out to her plenty of times, but she doesn't seem to get it. Little bit tick me thinks.