Melbourne Protests:Land Forces 2024 International Land Defence Exposition

[Gethelred]

Did you post this hypothesis?

I've certainly posted that protesters react to what the state brings to a situation and that escalation can be blamed more on the state than on protestors, as the protesters need to do enough - break the peace just enough - to get their point across. When that means violent repression and protest break up, protesters need to be prepared to deal with that. For some, that means googles to avoid being pepper or hose sprayed; for others, they're going to bring along means to try and push back, whether that's the marbles mentioned or otherwise.

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating people do this in a protest. What I am saying is that this is the nature of governments at all times, democratic or otherwise. In its very foundation, organised government is built on the violent threat of repression; the phrase 'keep the peace' is enforced with violence. The end result of this is that the only real way to try and change the rules - if the system itself leaves no alternative, no recourse for change, no flexibility via back channel or too much insulation between the people and the levers of power - is to disrupt that control, to bring into question the government's ability to control its territory.

It's rather eye opening to me that so many people are supposedly so very individualist on one hand yet so willing to be pro force and government on the other.

 

[SnakeMan86]

I've certainly posted that protesters react to what the state brings to a situation and that escalation can be blamed more on the state than on protestors, as the protesters need to do enough - break the peace just enough - to get their point across. When that means violent repression and protest break up, protesters need to be prepared to deal with that. For some, that means googles to avoid being pepper or hose sprayed; for others, they're going to bring along means to try and push back, whether that's the marbles mentioned or otherwise.

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating people do this in a protest. What I am saying is that this is the nature of governments at all times, democratic or otherwise. In its very foundation, organised government is built on the violent threat of repression; the phrase 'keep the peace' is enforced with violence. The end result of this is that the only real way to try and change the rules - if the system itself leaves no alternative, no recourse for change, no flexibility via back channel or too much insulation between the people and the levers of power - is to disrupt that control, to bring into question the government's ability to control its territory.

It's rather eye opening to me that so many people are supposedly so very individualist on one hand yet so willing to be pro force and government on the other.

Ok so what's next?
When the protest ends, and the media moves on, and your average punter forgets about the issue that is trying to be highlighted, rendering the protest worthless. What's next? Raise the stakes? This level of "disrupt control" will change nothing, so what now?

 

[evolved2]

I strongly oppose the violence but, equally, I strongly support the protestors' cause. I'm assuming it is a minority causing the violence, they do their cause no good at all.

Quite apart from being wrong, the violence allows that (ie the violence) to be the total and absolute focus of the protest - which plays into the hands of the media, the government, the arms industry - because that it is all your average pundit will hear about.

But there are other issues at play which are entirely relevant - the merits of having the expo in Australia, the fact that these are weapons being sold to inflict death and misery on others, whether the government has over-reacted in terms of police presence and the possibility of unwarranted police violence as well. They won't get discussed or considered - because "violence".

As an example, I inadvertently tuned into Sunrise the other morning, and they were literally drooling themselves over the protestors' violence. They couldn't cover it enough. You are not going to get Sunrise covering other aspects of the protest, other than to obviously say (but not cover in any way of course) what they are protesting about. A perfect example of how the media dumbs down its coverage to the lowest possible level.

So the violence is both wrong and stupid. And those who are concentrating solely on that violence, rather than including the related issues in your thoughts and discussion, well, broaden your thinking a little.

Do you think the majority of Australians care about a defence expo being held here?

That's the crux of the matter to me. There's no reason why a small number of protesters should be able to close down a legal event, whether it be a defence expo or sexpo.

I'm sure most posters feel the same towards protests they don't agree with.

 

[Gethelred]

Ok so what's next?
When the protest ends, and the media moves on, and your average punter forgets about the issue that is trying to be highlighted, rendering the protest worthless. What's next? Raise the stakes? This level of "disrupt control" will change nothing, so what now?

That's precisely the problem, Snake!

Escalation. They ignored you this time; that anger and frustration has no where to go. Some protesters have now the experience on being on the violent end of police repression; in some cases the police were as even handed as they could be, but the protesters will not see it that way. What they will see is that they were harmed, directly, by their government at the behest of monied interestes.

The right to equal protection under the law for some of those people no longer exists. The police have dissolved that illusion now for those people, for good.

What that means is the next time those people go to a protest, they come prepared. They bring goggles and marbles and slingshots. Some of them might download a copy of the Anarchist's Cookbook and look up the recipe for molotov cocktails. Some of them might begin to look up legal advice for what to do if you're treated badly by police in a protest, if they still believe the system is designed to be just.

Eventually, you piss off enough people you either need to give them enough tme to calm down or you risk escalation after escalation.

It really only takes a few bad moments to stack atop each other before things lose equilibrium.

 

[evolved2]

That's precisely the problem, Snake!

Escalation. They ignored you this time; that anger and frustration has no where to go. Some protesters have now the experience on being on the violent end of police repression; in some cases the police were as even handed as they could be, but the protesters will not see it that way. What they will see is that they were harmed, directly, by their government at the behest of monied interestes.

The right to equal protection under the law for some of those people no longer exists. The police have dissolved that illusion now for those people, for good.

What that means is the next time those people go to a protest, they come prepared. They bring goggles and marbles and slingshots. Some of them might download a copy of the Anarchist's Cookbook and look up the recipe for molotov cocktails. Some of them might begin to look up legal advice for what to do if you're treated badly by police in a protest, if they still believe the system is designed to be just.

Eventually, you piss off enough people you either need to give them enough tme to calm down or you risk escalation after escalation.

It really only takes a few bad moments to stack atop each other before things lose equilibrium.

I don't think anyone has actually posted as to what they think the government and police should have done instead/better than their approach (besides having less numbers).

Why do you think protesters were not heard?

Do people attending the expo deserve protection from protesters?

 

[Gethelred]

Thr protestors are generally all about themselves first, the actual cause a very distant second.

Kram, how the **** would you know that?

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

No Iran I think. Netanyahu and the expo people sure love killing civilians though. How nice to give it the red carpet treatment.

Iran gets a free ticket. Why no protests against Iran?

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Iran gets a free ticket. Why no protests against Iran?

Because people here don't live in Iran and Iran haven't killed 15,000 children .

 

[radiojake]

I must have missed the part where our government has been materially aiding Iran

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Because people here don't live in Iran and Iran haven't killed 15,000 children .

People here don’t live in Palestine either

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

People here don’t live in Palestine either

People here don't like our government supporting a country that kills thousands of children do you get that?

 

[Xtreme]

The whole shebang will cost Victorians $30 million

I could think of better usage of that kind of money (imagine how many hours of Daytona you could play ).

 

[The Sultan]

Do you think the majority of Australians care about a defence expo being held here?

That's the crux of the matter to me. There's no reason why a small number of protesters should be able to close down a legal event, whether it be a defence expo or sexpo.

I'm sure most posters feel the same towards protests they don't agree with.

Still don’t know why they’re having a military weapon expo in the city’s.

 

[Demons09]

People here don't like our government supporting a country that kills thousands of children do you get that?

How many Australians do you reckon gaf about what’s happening in Gaza a few pockets of protests isn’t a clear reflection of support, and that idiot Bandt carrying on in Parliament is only preaching to his constituents which is 10% of the population who vote Greens.

Just because you support something doesn’t mean the majority of people do i don’t see any overwhelming support anywhere is this county for your views on Gaza.

 

[Chief]

How many Australians do you reckon gaf about what’s happening in Gaza

I'm sure there have been polls.

 

[radiojake]

How many Australians do you reckon gaf about what’s happening in Gaza a few pockets of protests isn’t a clear reflection of support, and that idiot Bandt carrying on in Parliament is only preaching to his constituents which is 10% of the population who vote Greens.

Just because you support something doesn’t mean the majority of people do i don’t see any overwhelming support anywhere is this county for your views on Gaza.

Just because some people don't give a **** doesn't mean we should ignore what's going on

Plenty of people would be appalled with what is happening, but don't get to the protests for various reasons

Most people who have any semblance of understanding of what's happening, and aren't blinded by Zionist bias, would think that Israel are acting terribly

And unlike other conflicts that are happening around the world, the current govt here is actively supporting the perpetrators, hence the pushback by constituents here

 

[eddiesmith]

Still don’t know why they’re having a military weapon expo in the city’s.

Given that’s exactly what the a convention centre is built for, where else would you hold it?

 

[HairyO]

We will violently protest to make our point that violence isnt the answer !!

 

[Dirty_banchez]

The protesters didn't have a coherent message for the wider Australian public to understand. It might be better to move the Expo to a real city like Perth in the future.

 

[Gethelred]

How many Australians do you reckon gaf about what’s happening in Gaza a few pockets of protests isn’t a clear reflection of support, and that idiot Bandt carrying on in Parliament is only preaching to his constituents which is 10% of the population who vote Greens.

Just because you support something doesn’t mean the majority of people do i don’t see any overwhelming support anywhere is this county for your views on Gaza.

I think you're missing a step.

It isn't "How many Australians do you reckon give a **** about what's happing in Gaza"; it's "How many Australians do you reckon give a **** about what's happening in Gaza sufficiently to have the time to protest about it who also have the time and wherewithall to attend a protest in Melbourne?".

No-one's actually polled the entire populace on the issue.

 

[Gethelred]

We will violently protest to make our point that violence isnt the answer !!

In the same vein, police 'keep the peace' using tear gas, batons, handcuffs and hoses.

Isn't it funny how this logic isn't considered good enough for the gander despite being good enough for the goose?

 

[HairyO]

In the same vein, police 'keep the peace' using tear gas, batons, handcuffs and hoses.

Isn't it funny how this logic isn't considered good enough for the gander despite being good enough for the goose?

Protect and enforce the law being 2 key pillars.

YOu think the protestors bringing ball bearings, bottles of urine and all the other crap had peace in their hearts?

They wanted the violence because they like watching themselves on tv. Violent protests never work. But peaceful protests are boring.

 

[Xtreme]

Protect and enforce the law being 2 key pillars.

YOu think the protestors bringing ball bearings, bottles of urine and all the other crap had peace in their hearts?

They wanted the violence because they like watching themselves on tv. Violent protests never work. But peaceful protests are boring.

What the protest figureheads needed was someone with experience. The Hoff united Germany, he could do the same in the land down under!

 

[HairyO]

What the protest figureheads needed was someone with experience. The Hoff united Germany, he could do the same in the land down under!

Which just goes to prove my theory, Germans love David Hasselhoff.

 

[Gethelred]

Protect and enforce the law being 2 key pillars.

YOu think the protestors bringing ball bearings, bottles of urine and all the other crap had peace in their hearts?

They wanted the violence because they like watching themselves on tv. Violent protests never work. But peaceful protests are boring.