Free Agency Brad Crouch [joins St Kilda as a RFA for pick 23]

[Kane McGoodwin]

Crouch is 26 next year, and he is not playing in a crows premiership. He is not a top shelf player and the crows need young top shelf players. Currently they have no young top shelf players bar possibly O'Brien, Doedee and Jones. Crouch is very expendable.

The only players who should be untouchable at the crows:

O'Brien
Jones
Doedee
McAsey
Fogarty
McHenry
Milera
Scholl

These are the only guys with the capacity to take you forward and be core players in your next tilt.


Carlton spent 3 years at the bottom developing talent and began their rise in the back half of 2019 at which point the Crows looked uncompetitive with the young Carlton lineup. Carlton overtook the Crows in the back half of 2019 and the gap between the two sides is only growing. Brad Crouch will not bring you into a position where you can compete with Carlton. Only young superstars will and at this point, the Crows have none.

All you are advocating is that the Crows try reach for a middle of the ladder position, which is 100% in line with my views on the crows as a club.

Stop trolling as you know our best & fairest winner is a quality player. Hence we intend keeping him, which most Crows fans are happy with. We also have plenty of young talent already on our list but you have nfi about our young players.

You don't rebuild by getting rid of your best mid age players unless you are completely clueless!

 

[My name geoff]

Stop trolling as you know our best & fairest winner is a quality player. Hence we intend keeping him, which most Crows fans are happy with. We also have plenty of young talent already on our list but you have nfi about our young players.

You don't rebuild by getting rid of your best mid age players unless you are completely clueless!

I watched the crows SANFL games. Scholl is the only tick I would give. Potentially Butts, also Hamill although there is a huge gap between his best and worst. Would keep Strachan as a back up ruck.

There is a HUGE gap between the Crows youngsters and what will constitute a premiership candidate team over the coming decade. Holding onto Crouch is pointless if the Crows intend on participating in this group of premiership hopefuls. If the Crows intend on continuing to be a middle table club, by all means, hold onto your only high value tradeable commodity.

 

[1970crow]

Your list is already unbalanced. There is a dearth of top 10 draft picks. No young superstars coming through. Compare that to your competition, you're behind and having players like Brad Crouch isn't going to fix or even help the problem. Brad Crouch is only really helpful if you're in your window, which you aren't.

Using Carlton as an example again, players like Setterfield(21), Walsh(19), Weitering(22), Mckay(22), Curnow(22) will all be passing Brad Crouch in the coming year or so but you are advocating holding onto a 26 year old, injury prone, yet to be proven as a consistent contributor, level below the top midfielders Brad Crouch at the expense of the aforementioned level of talent players. What you're advocating is that your club shouldn't be competing with the likes of Carlton. Brad Crouch is the exact type of player you offload to try bring in a Sam Walsh. Brad Crouch cant compete with the Cripps, Martin, Dangerfield, Fyfe types but you're arguing that you shouldn't try get one of these types with Brad Crouch.

You're advocating that the Crows should aspire to be a mid table team, which makes perfect sense if your read my opinion on the Crows supporter base over the past few years. The crows aspire to be a middle table club. You are proving this yet again.

If you believe Carlton has made a mistake by trading out Henderson, Menzel, Bell, Yarran, to bring in Curnow, Mckay, Cuningham, Plowman etc then you clearly have no concept of how to rebuild a football team

I really don’t think Carlton is a relevant example given they’ve not yet moved out of the bottom 4. When they’ve spent a couple of years in the top 4 and genuinely contending, we can then look at back and use their method of rebuilding as a go to guide.

 

[PhatHQ]

Fair bit of chatter here....
Crouch is not a guy to build a premiership around. He is top line cake, don’t get me wrong. I think with the right compliment he would be a damaging accumulator who can share some heavy lifting on the inside.
mid the crows are hanging their hat on Brad to get them there I would suggest it would be off the back of a fat contract &more than likely 30 by the time the team has the firepower & stability to deliver a premiership.

I have been in the Crouch train for a while & can honestly see him as the final midfield piece with Mitchell & O’mera to see the Hawks get back to 13-14-15 type dominance & aggressive game style.
Throw in Wingard & Worpell & it’s an opposition’s nightmare.

...off track

I will assume he will re-sign late 2020 & get fat on an Adelaide’s pension program.
Really hoping he moves on for premiership success. After the ordinary start to a career through injury, you would be speculating on the longevity in the game for him.
Obviously Hawthorn is my preferred spot for Brad but Richmond would be very appealing. Collingwood will always throw money at the midfield & I recon Carlton would be neck deep in the next negotiations. All in vain with Brad the target for the Hawks 2020

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Fair bit of chatter here....
Crouch is not a guy to build a premiership around. He is top line cake, don’t get me wrong. I think with the right compliment he would be a damaging accumulator who can share some heavy lifting on the inside.
mid the crows are hanging their hat on Brad to get them there I would suggest it would be off the back of a fat contract &more than likely 30 by the time the team has the firepower & stability to deliver a premiership.

I have been in the Crouch train for a while & can honestly see him as the final midfield piece with Mitchell & O’mera to see the Hawks get back to 13-14-15 type dominance & aggressive game style.
Throw in Wingard & Worpell & it’s an opposition’s nightmare.

...off track

I will assume he will re-sign late 2020 & get fat on an Adelaide’s pension program.
Really hoping he moves on for premiership success. After the ordinary start to a career through injury, you would be speculating on the longevity in the game for him.
Obviously Hawthorn is my preferred spot for Brad but Richmond would be very appealing. Collingwood will always throw money at the midfield & I recon Carlton would be neck deep in the next negotiations. All in vain with Brad the target for the Hawks 2020

Hawks are as far off a flag as the Crows.

If Brad wanted to go to a contender he would head somewhere like Richmond or Collingwood... but he doesn't like living in a big city & long term $'s is his managers goal.

 

[DangerSloane]

A kid like Hatley is only one option you could use it to get a more established player or split the pick and grab multiple players with it it's not like if you have say pick 8 the only thing you can do is draft an unknown.

But why recruit a mature player while losing one in his prime?
Net gain is zero.

That makes less than no sense.

The only reason to let crouch go (assuming his mind isnt made up either way) is to get quality youth in the door.

No team is going to give up a better player than crouch for his compensation pick.
This is exactly my point.

 

[Gunf]

But why recruit a mature player while losing one in his prime?
Net gain is zero.

That makes less than no sense.

The only reason to let crouch go (assuming his mind isnt made up either way) is to get quality youth in the door.

No team is going to give up a better player than crouch for his compensation pick.
This is exactly my point.

IF HE LEAVES.

Sometimes you have to make the best of a bad situation ala Geelong this year with Kelly get a good deal and try to replace him with mature talent or bite the bullet and draft who you think long term can replace him.

Not every situation will be the same Geelong lose Kelly get Steven and some kids. Freo lose Neal get some b grade replacements whilst trying to let the youth grow to replace.

If Brad leaves maybe you try to get someone in the prime age to replace Brad. maybe you get a few older players to do that whilst youth builds or maybe you go full youth route who knows but not every time you lose a player to a trade or FA will you walk away with a net gain at least not straight away.

And like i have said this is if he leaves Brad may well sign a 5+ year deal tomorrow and our whole conversation is completely pointless.

 

[Mt Isa Mustang]

Everyone would crouch at their team in an instant.
He’s a good player.
As the best midfielder in a team though - bottom 50% midfield group.

 

[JerryRapidRiser]

Can Carlton fans stop talking as if they are successful now and a model to follow. Y'all haven't done shit for 20 years and still haven't done anything. One decent 6 month chunk means nothing if you don't back it up.

 

[La Dispute]

I have been in the Crouch train for a while & can honestly see him as the final midfield piece with Mitchell & O’mera to see the Hawks get back to 13-14-15 type dominance & aggressive game style.
Throw in Wingard & Worpell & it’s an opposition’s nightmare.

...off track

Sam Frost = Brian Lake
Jack Scrimshaw = Luke Hodge

Hawks just need Crouch and they’re back to three-peats and playing aggressive footy.

 

[PhatHQ]

Sam Frost = Brian Lake
Jack Scrimshaw = Luke Hodge

Hawks just need Crouch and they’re back to three-peats and playing aggressive footy.

Not quite mate but I’m sure there are some quirks to a game plan that can help these guys get closer to the two you mentioned.

Crouch has been on Clarko’s/Hawthorns radar from his draft year apparently, same as Mitchell & Jags.
It’s not a coincidence that the 3 could rival Hodge, Mitchell & Lewis years with a genuine full forward, a No.1 ranked defence (I think) and a long bomb game plan that has frustrated the hell out of all Hawks supporters for a couple of years.
Crouch would solidify having a 3 headed monster in the middle for the next 5 years.
He is a Bull that can be ridden to premierships.... at Hawthorn
#Crouchisthetarget

 

[WillHayward]

I would have liked to see him move to the Suns.

Absolutely perfect fit for both.

I feel like the Suns with Crouch could think about finals in the next 2-3 years.

The Crows with Crouch are still a mile off finals. A decade.

The draft pick thing doesnt worry me (they got McAsey and Milera) . What worries me i they cant pick up quality mature recruits from other clubs.
Eagles get Kelly. Tigers get Prestia etc. Lions get Neale.
Adelaide need to find a way to get back in the trade market.

 

[WillHayward]

Sam Frost = Brian Lake

Wooahhhh there fella..

 

[DangerSloane]

I would have liked to see him move to the Suns.

Absolutely perfect fit for both.

I feel like the Suns with Crouch could think about finals in the next 2-3 years.

The Crows with Crouch are still a mile off finals. A decade.

The draft pick thing doesnt worry me (they got McAsey and Milera) . What worries me i they cant pick up quality mature recruits from other clubs.
Eagles get Kelly. Tigers get Prestia etc. Lions get Neale.
Adelaide need to find a way to get back in the trade market.

Hang on.
The team that hasn't won a game in 8 months is going to make finals next 2-3 years but the team that won 10 games is a decade away.

This is some all time terrible trolling.

 

[Monkey King]

Great point, the 97, 98 premiership teams didn't have top 10 picks!

97-98 was only a handful of years after the Crows were established. Many of their best players came to club outside the draft system - Jarman, Hart, McLeod, Smart, Rehn, Ricciuto … yeah none a top 10 pick, but without zone selections like they had in the 90's, what relevance does this factoid have today? None!

 

[DangerSloane]

97-98 was only a handful of years after the Crows were established. Many of their best players came to club outside the draft system - Jarman, Hart, McLeod, Smart, Rehn, Ricciuto … yeah none a top 10 pick, but without zone selections like they had in the 90's, what relevance does this factoid have today? None!

Jarman was 29 when he came to AFC via trade (nothing to do with zone selection)
McLeod was drafted by Fremantle but traded
Rehn was unwanted by all AFL clubs and was last person picked on our initial squad

So I mean your 'factoids' aren't really factoids are they.

Not like you to totally talk out your bumhole though

The point is that you dont need to have high draft picks to have success.

The teams with the most high draft picks last year were nearer to the bottom (excluding GWS & GC).
Whereas Richmond were the best team for the year and dont have many top picks.

 

[Thetrader15]

I don't know why youre bringing Carlton into this. Just makes your point seem even worse.

You do realise that you have recruited the same amount of top 30 players as Carlton have in the past 3 years but 3 of Carlton’s were top 10 picks and at the same time Carlton were also trading in top 30 players from other clubs.

Not to mention Carlton already had Mckay, Weitering, Curnow, Cuningham, Fisher, SPS from the previous 2 drafts as top 30 picks.

Over that period Carlton brought in Martin, Kennedy, Lang, Marchbank, McGovern, Setterfield as former top 30 picks

Carlton has brought in the same amount of top 10 players as the crows have top 30 players over this period.

The crows have brought in 2 top 10 players since 2015.

Moral of the story, the crows haven’t brought in enough early talent.

How much 'early talent' have Richmond brought in?

 

[DangerSloane]

How much 'early talent' have Richmond brought in?

Lynch only, while losing Deledio as far as top draft picks go.

Geelong dynasty was built with no real high picks.
Hawthorn used a few early for their dynasty but then for a long time used no high picks
Richmond potential dynasty with no real high picks.

 

[Thetrader15]

Lynch only, while losing Deledio as far as top draft picks go.

Geelong dynasty was built with no real high picks.
Hawthorn used a few early for their dynasty but then for a long time used no high picks
Richmond potential dynasty with no real high picks.

Add Matrin, Cotchin, Reiwoldt, Caddy, Prestia, Rance, Rioli.

They've got a few, but not Carlton,Melbourne like numbers where they don't actually make it up the ladder

 

[Peel67skin]

Add Matrin, Cotchin, Reiwoldt, Caddy, Prestia, Rance, Rioli.

They've got a few, but not Carlton,Melbourne like numbers where they don't actually make it up the ladder

Higgins, Dow, Riley Dawkins also first round pick.

 

[Thetrader15]

Lynch only, while losing Deledio as far as top draft picks go.

Geelong dynasty was built with no real high picks.
Hawthorn used a few early for their dynasty but then for a long time used no high picks
Richmond potential dynasty with no real high picks.

Geelong got theirs with the FS rule, where you could get a FS with either a 2nd or 3rd pick.

Scarlett
GAblett
Hawkins
N Ablett
Blake
Bews

3 of their greatest of all times were effectively free.

 

[Thetrader15]

I hope he stay with Adelaide. If Carlton next year still behind Adelaide,

Higgins, Dow, Riley Dawkins also first round pick.

Did any of those play in a GF though?

 

[DangerSloane]

Add Matrin, Cotchin, Reiwoldt, Caddy, Prestia, Rance, Rioli.

They've got a few, but not Carlton,Melbourne like numbers where they don't actually make it up the ladder

I was talking recruits only not draftees, sorry. Caddy and Prestia probably fit the bill, but even then Caddy at his 3rd club and wasnt living up to the high pick tag.

Its certainly not been the keystone for their success is all I'm saying.

 

[DangerSloane]

Geelong got theirs with the FS rule, where you could get a FS with either a 2nd or 3rd pick.

Scarlett
GAblett
Hawkins
N Ablett
Blake
Bews

3 of their greatest of all times were effectively free.

Thats true but at the time some of those guys werent rated highly by other teams.
As far as I understand, Ablett was not going to be a first round pick?

 

[Peel67skin]

Did any of those play in a GF though?

VFL grand final, Adelaide also got lots playing in SANFL GF last year. Teams are doing OK if both their AFL and reserves in Top 4. Adelaide and GWS are great example of having depth issue due to injuries or list balance.