Brett Burton

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SaltPeter said:
I think in the context of my comment, senior players approached and lobbied Chapman etc about their concerns with CM shortly before the season started. Yet it wasn't until mid year that a change was finally made.

Did they by-pass the coaching/football manager to do this. Or were they telling the Burton/Pyke etc, and not being listened to?

And even approaching Chapman, it still took 4-5 months for any action.
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Please...let's not start this again!
 

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DJ75 said:
I understand your comments.

Maybe (I'm just guessing) the players have raised it with our senior administrators and they have been ignored. What to do next then?
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Rumors doing the rounds is that it has been raised. As mentioned a few months back. It a pointless argument these days to worry about Burton, he either improves his man-management/communication skills or he moves on,
Until then as recent history has shown he will be watched/mentored and given all the tools he needs to succeed or fail.
Crows hired him on too early so they have to give him the required training and time to improve/fail. They did that with Noble.

What we need to do is ensure we vote the Correct person into the vacated member elect position in March.
 
ad victoriam said:
Rumors doing the rounds is that it has been raised. As mentioned a few months back. It a pointless argument these days to worry about Burton, he either improves his man-management/communication skills or he moves on,
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Or he keeps doing his role poorly, backed by the administration who appointed him
 
I think we have been extremely judgmental of Burton this year on the team's poor showing, the injury toll, and his lack of Media nous when speaking in the midyear conference with Pyke (where most would agree Pyke handled it much better and showing more awareness of fault).

Personally, I think Burton should be given notice that things need to be handled better for next year, or he will get the marching order. Before then, I think it's important to rationalise some points:

- Burton (and Hass) was here at the start of 2017. The year we had made the Grand Final with a decent injury toll. Had we won the GF, Burton and Pyke might had been hailed as the 2 new Crows Messiahs (along with Blight).

- you can't just fire one person for a whole year of mess. Often big messes involve many factors and/or many people, not just one.

- if it was that obvious the season was a shambles due to Burton, and Burton alone, then I think the club would have acted on common sense to discharge Burton from his role.

- following the point from above, if the club knew it was completely Burton's fault (and noone else's), and decided to still keep him, then the whole club hierarchy deserve to have their contracts terminated also!
 
Elite Crow said:
And why didn’t they move on Burton?

They would then have to admit his appointment was a mistake, bringing into his question their judgement and be accused of getting the boys club appointment wrong.
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Are they that full of themselves that they can't admit to making a mistake. Sounds a little psychopathic to me. As for Burton, I have no doubt we will try and hide him in the back office from now on.
 
John Who said:
I think we have been extremely judgmental of Burton this year on the team's poor showing, the injury toll, and his lack of Media nous when speaking in the midyear conference with Pyke (where most would agree Pyke handled it much better and showing more awareness of fault).

Personally, I think Burton should be given notice that things need to be handled better for next year, or he will get the marching order. Before then, I think it's important to rationalise some points:

- Burton (and Hass) was here at the start of 2017. The year we had made the Grand Final with a decent injury toll. Had we won the GF, Burton and Pyke might had been hailed as the 2 new Crows Messiahs (along with Blight).

- you can't just fire one person for a whole year of mess. Often big messes involve many factors and/or many people, not just one.

- if it was that obvious the season was a shambles due to Burton, and Burton alone, then I think the club would have acted on common sense to discharge Burton from his role.

- following the point from above, if the club knew it was completely Burton's fault (and noone else's), and decided to still keep him, then the whole club hierarchy deserve to have their contracts terminated also!
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What are the key attributes needed to be a football manger?

Do you honestly think Burton will ever have these attributes?

A key one is the ability to make good decisions, including when something goes wrong to fix it asap. If you never admit you get it wrong, it won't get get fixed.

Think about the qualities of other good football managers & compare to Burton.

If someone is performing badly & there is no chance they will improve, you don't just leave them in the role to cause major issues.
 
Kane McGoodwin said:
What are the key attributes needed to be a football manger?

Do you honestly think Burton will ever have these attributes?

A key one is the ability to make good decisions, including when something goes wrong to fix it asap. If you never admit you get it wrong, it won't get get fixed.

Think about the qualities of other good football managers & compare to Burton.

If someone is performing badly & there is no chance they will improve, you don't just leave them in the role to cause major issues.
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We did cease the relationship with CM after knowing it went wrong.

We also made some changes in regards to hamstring I juries and ultimately hired Steve Saunders.

These are two key issues last season and both have been identified and corrected by the club with corrective action taken midseason. Albeit the season was shot by then anyway.

I guess the real question is. Did Burton play a big role in this identification and action process?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 
Sanders said:
How much would a player really have to do with Noble/Burton on a regular basis?
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Very little...

Anything the players pick up on would be administratively filtered imo. They'd have a good idea of how the organisation feels towards him but wouldn't be directly affected.
 
Kane McGoodwin said:
What are the key attributes needed to be a football manger?

Do you honestly think Burton will ever have these attributes?

A key one is the ability to make good decisions, including when something goes wrong to fix it asap. If you never admit you get it wrong, it won't get get fixed.

Think about the qualities of other good football managers & compare to Burton.

If someone is performing badly & there is no chance they will improve, you don't just leave them in the role to cause major issues.
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I absolutely agree with you that the key attributes of a good football manager (or any type of manager) is the ability to identify faults and correct them.

I just find it hard to fathom that he’s all to blame for our hideous 2018 display, and he is not to be mentioned for our wonderful 2017 showing (except for GF day, which clearly was beyond his control). Everyone seems to forget that Burton has been with us since end of 2016.
 
Geoffa32 said:
We did cease the relationship with CM after knowing it went wrong.

We also made some changes in regards to hamstring I juries and ultimately hired Steve Saunders.

These are two key issues last season and both have been identified and corrected by the club with corrective action taken midseason. Albeit the season was shot by then anyway.

I guess the real question is. Did Burton play a big role in this identification and action process?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
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We need to wait and see on next year’s results to see if any real improvements. Though it’s good to see that we did bring results to a more positive state from mid-year debacle to the latter part of the season.

The issue how I see is that everyone is judging Burton with the benefit of hindsight, and expecting every year to go in similar paths. In reality, nothing is a given and new things need to be tried and with unpredictable outcomes.
 

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DJ75 said:
As many of you will know, I don’t post comments about players etc... unless the source is very very good. I’ve been on this board for a long time, so feel free to check out my history.

With that said, I can share information heard from one of our senior, leadership type of players. He was speaking recently at a venue after a couple of drinks and mentioned that he wished Noble was back at Adelaide, how they loved his work and had great respect for him. He went on to say that he and the vast majority of the players did not like Burton at all. They thought he was “a compete idiot” and out of his depth.

This is from a player who has known Burton for a very long time.

If this is the feeling of the players and the supporters are also asking questions about his suitability, just how blindly stubborn are our administration? I mean why on Earth would you roll Burton out to present the jumpers to the new draftees? No ex players the draftees might have been excited to meet? Or was it just to get him out of the room while the big boys made the actual decisions?

I find the comments (genuine comments at that) to be of great concern moving forwards. How long will we have to bury our heads in the sand so that Fagan and co can pretend they didn’t stuff up his appointment and as a consequence our premiership chances?
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Burton is one of Roo's best mates and will not be going anywhere while Roo has anything to do with the club. Was one of the worst appointments in the clubs history. Up there with Gary Ayres, Robert Shaw and Brenton Sanderson. The club has a history of being more recalcitrant than the afl. They find it impossible to admit they made a major error. The Stephen Trigg episode is a prime example. Our clubs problems all stem from our pigheaded chairman Rob Chapman imo. No other club in the league would still have a chairman who presided over the tippett saga that cost us at least 1 flag.
 
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Elite Crow said:
Shakes head
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Shakes head even more.

The Club allowing him to present jumpers, just highlighted the support he has behind him. He isnt going anywhere.

We can only hope he gets promoted to a position that has nothing to do with players.
 
GROTTO said:
Shakes head even more.

The Club allowing him to present jumpers, just highlighted the support he has behind him. He isnt going anywhere.

We can only hope he gets promoted to a position that has nothing to do with players.
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Maybe we can make the COO a joint position and have him follow Smart around going to e-sports tournaments.
 
As I am hearing it, the only people who are less impressed with Burton than the players are other members of staff. It’s their careers too, after all.
 
Big Crow said:
As I am hearing it, the only people who are less impressed with Burton than the players are other members of staff. It’s their careers too, after all.
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I believe most members would pay from their own pocket to pay out Burton's contract.
 
jackster83 said:
Maybe we can make the COO a joint position and have him follow Smart around going to e-sports tournaments.
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Maybe presenting jumpers to the draftees should be his only job from now on? Get him to focus on that - he can spend the year practicing his handshake and jumper-giving technique, perhaps developing new, innovative jumper-giving techniques (maybe some kind of round the back or under the leg trick-shot or something).
 
Jarman3 said:
Maybe presenting jumpers to the draftees should be his only job from now on? Get him to focus on that - he can spend the year practicing his handshake and jumper-giving technique, perhaps developing new, innovative jumper-giving techniques (maybe some kind of round the back or under the leg trick-shot or something).
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That would result in exhaustion.
 

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