Prediction Brisbane Lions 2017 Coach is Chris Fagan

[Roylion]

What point are you actually trying to prove Roylion?

I'm trying to ascertain how people decide what is 'truth' and what isn't. I'm presenting what some of the main players have explained about the process of selecting Noble and the new coach, only to be repeatedly told that the AFL are making all the decisions and/or have already made the decision on the identity of the new coach.

I'm also told that "what's said in media through interviews (as above) and what's actually happened behind closed doors are two very very different situations". How do they know this?

For example Caroline Wilson on 20th September said Noble had spoken to John Barker before his appointment, yet Noble said in a subsequent interview that he hadn't spoken to any candidate and didnt know where the story had come from. Who's correct?

Has the Lions' next coach been appointed or are they actually going through the process, as the club said they would do? Noble seemed to imply that the process would be followed. Yet according to certain "sources", Fagan has apparently been appointed already. Do they actually know or are they guessing?

 

[JBs shadow]

I'm trying to ascertain how people decide what is 'truth' and what isn't. I'm presenting what some of the main players have explained about the process of selecting Noble and the new coach, only to be repeatedly told that the AFL are making all the decisions and/or have already made the decision on the identity of the new coach.

I'm also told that "what's said in media through interviews (as above) and what's actually happened behind closed doors are two very very different situations". How do they know this?

For example Caroline Wilson on 20th September said Noble had spoken to John Barker before his appointment, yet Noble said in a subsequent interview that he hadn't spoken to any candidate and didnt know where the story had come from. Who's correct?

Has the Lions' next coach been appointed or are they actually going through the process, as the club said they would do? Noble seemed to imply that the process would be followed. Yet according to certain "sources", Fagan has apparently been appointed already. Do they actually know or are they guessing?

I'm really not sure how clearer I can make my comments. Should I use capitals? Bold? You can choose to second guess or not, I'm really not fussed.

I'm not naming names, but I've said in previous posts that I know you've read that I've spoken personally to someone who is very involved.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I'm really looking forward to the announcement of our coach. To me it will be a fresh start for the club and a lot of the players. I just have to believe that we get this appointment right. This will be the start of our club building a culture we can all be proud of.

 

[Roylion]

I'm not naming names, but I've said in previous posts that I know you've read that I've spoken personally to someone who is very involved.

In the selection of the coach? So Schwab.

 

[Hollow Knight]

 

[Eons]

In other news, reports have come to hand that children all over the world are in mourning after discovering that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are not real.

 

[WA Lion]

The inner cynic in me wonders if Fagan's appointment (as advised by a poster this morning from a Lions source) is timed just in time for the AFL commission meeting today......

"Please sir, we have been good, now how about that PP?"

 

[Judge]

Does any of this shit really matter?

All I care about is the identity of the new coach, not when he was first spoken to, who contacted him or anything else.

 

[Roylion]

I understand how the AFL operate. Obviously I know people who have dealt with the AFL and I've even had the misfortune of witnessing for myself, Fitzroy trying to deal with them in 2010. (There is, for example, a very good reason why Fitzroy 'chose' to settle with the Brisbane Lions over the logo stoush in 2010)

However let's be accurate. Of course the AFL do have input (that I've always acknowledged)...they make recommendations on the type of people they would like to see in various positions. This is discussed with the Lions. The AFL help find suitable candidates etc., even help persuade 'good' people (that match the agreed profile - such as an experienced football manager) to apply. In the case of the coach, I have no good reason to disbelieve Noble, Swann and Matthews when they say due process will be followed and that the final decision on the coach will be made in the end by the Brisbane Lions board, independently of the AFL. (Yes and I know it was the AFL that helped them find the candidates. Yes and I know how Soviet elections under Stalin worked as well.)

 

[Quigley]

Is the AFL really acting inconsistent with what you would usually get an executive recruitment firm to do when a big corporate engages them.

Either cast the net a bit more widely and put together a shortlist and a recommended candidate or go out to some selected individuals who are well known to see if they are able to be headhunted.

The corporate would then interview the shortlist or the headhunted individual to make sure they fit in with what the Corporate want from a personality perspective as much as anything.

We just replaced our CEO and the process involved interviewing only 2 individuals. There is no problem with an organisation outsourcing the heavy lifting especially if a better quality of candidate is likely to result. You are not abdicating responsibility for the appointment but you don't have to do everything yourself.

 

[Roylion]

Is the AFL really acting inconsistent with what you would usually get an executive recruitment firm to do when a big corporate engages them.

Either cast the net a bit more widely and put together a shortlist and a recommended candidate or go out to some selected individuals who are well known to see if they are able to be headhunted.

The corporate would then interview the shortlist or the headhunted individual to make sure they fit in with what the Corporate want from a personality perspective as much as anything.

We just replaced our CEO and the process involved interviewing only 2 individuals. There is no problem with an organisation outsourcing the heavy lifting especially if a better quality of candidate is likely to result. You are not abdicating responsibility for the appointment but you don't have to do everything yourself.

Yep. This is pretty much how I see it. The 'executive recruitment firm' is not taking over and running 'the Corporate' and making all their decisions for them, as some have implied is happening in the AFL/Brisbane Lions scenario.

I would be most concerned if the Brisbane Lions weren't going through the proper due process of selecting a coach. This has been a major criticism of their last two coaching appointments - that due process wasn't followed.

 

[JBs shadow]

Yep. This is pretty much how I see it. The 'executive recruitment firm' is not taking over and running 'the Corporate' and making all their decisions for them, as some have implied is happening in the AFL/Brisbane Lions scenario.

I'm sorry, but you're deluded. That scenario is real world. In the real world, Would the said recruitment agency pay all the corporates bills? Help Buy them a new building/s? No. Stop comparing it to a fantasy land where everyone tells the truth, or comparing it to a normal business structure. It's completely different.

No point discussing it with you to be honest. Your blinkers don't allow you to see what's really happening.

 

[The Golfing Lion]

Well however it happened I will say if they appoint Chris Fagan they were right

 

[Kent Brockman]

Has anyone else heard the 'Fagan is locked' rumour, or is it just one poster?

 

[WA Lion]

Yep. This is pretty much how I see it. The 'executive recruitment firm' is not taking over and running 'the Corporate' and making all their decisions for them, as some have implied is happening in the AFL/Brisbane Lions scenario.

But there is the point. The relationship argued for by yourself and most recently by Quigley is not the relationship that exists between the AFL and the Lions, whether you agree with it or not.

The recruitment firm and corporate body only exists where both parties are independent and one hires the other. That is not the case in our current predicament. We are not independent. Regardless of what any licence might suggest, right now we need the AFL and are reliant on them.

We have not hired them as though they are a recruitment firm. They are not working for us!

 

[Roylion]

I'm sorry, but you're deluded. That scenario is real world. In the real world, Would the said recruitment agency pay all the corporates bills? Help Buy them a new building/s? No. Stop comparing it to a fantasy land where everyone tells the truth, or comparing it to a normal business structure. It's completely different.

The 'truth'? I'm well aware of the 'truth' or lack of it when it comes to the AFL.

Your blinkers don't allow you to see what's really happening.

So Matthews, Swann and Noble are not telling the truth, when they've all said that the final decision on appointments (including Noble's own) have been the Brisbane Lions'?

 

[Devz15]

This thread is starting to get a bit stale to be honest.

I'd just like to say though if reports are true and it's down to Barker & Fagan, I'll be delighted with the outcome either way.

 

[notting18]

It is really hard to know the truth when there aren't objectively verifiable facts such as ACNs.

 

[Quigley]

But there is the point. The relationship argued for by yourself and most recently by Quigley is not the relationship that exists between the AFL and the Lions, whether you agree with it or not.

The recruitment firm and corporate body only exists where both parties are independent and one hires the other. That is not the case in our current predicament. We are not independent. Regardless of what any licence might suggest, right now we need the AFL and are reliant on them.

We have not hired them as though they are a recruitment firm. They are not working for us!

The analogy is not perfect but in each case the external organisation brings the candidates that meet the criteria to the organisation and the organisation then interviews them. The AFL has more power in this case but if the Lions decided that the individual was really going to be a bad fit I dare say the AFL would come up with an alternative or two.

I also think that Fagan is probably someone whose appointment has been driven by the Lions rather than the AFL. The AFL really want to promote the level 4 qualification and I think if they had unfettered control they would have slotted one of those guys into the role. That way they get to kill two birds with one stone. Fagan does not fit neatly into the pathway the AFL wants senior coaches to follow from here on in.

 

[jackess]

I really don't understand how people are so naive to think that this process began after last week when Noble "officially" came on board. Do you really think that it took from the time Adelaide were knocked out to the official announcement (4 days later?) for him to decide on completely uprooting and moving his family to another state, to work in the exact same position at a different club that's in a dire position? Now throw in the Fagan decision.

This process has been going for weeks and weeks (which I actually mentioned specific meetings had weeks ago) Does it matter if the AFL or Brisbane were the ones putting things in place? Nope. As long as we get great people in the positions we need. Which is what's happened. But for those that believe Brisbane have been calling the shots, you're far from the truth and the reality is - that's a good thing. Their previous decisions are what put us here.

As for the announcement this week, a big (AFL endorced) decision made, during the biggest week of the year? There's a shock!

Let's all just enjoy the fact we've got some big name, successful people in the club who will be pushing our club back to the top of the table.

A lot of chest beating in your recent posts.

 

[irel]

Hey ya all. I'll be back in a jiff and report how it all turned out.
Be right back.

 

[irel]

I'm baaack.

You'll be happy to know **** has just taken us to our second premiership. Who gives a F888ck how he was appointed.

 

[Gibbo_88]

I'm baaack.

You'll be happy to know **** has just taken us to our second premiership. Who gives a F888ck how he was appointed.

Don't be ridiculous and goal focused Irel, if there was an unoffcial meeting before any interviews then I and I feel free to speak for everyone else, will be off the Fagan wagon.

 

[luthor]

I'm baaack.

You'll be happy to know **** has just taken us to our second premiership. Who gives a F888ck how he was appointed.

Have you ever read more unmitigated crap than what' s been going on in this thread lately?

I know I haven't.

Unprovable assertions, Unwinnable arguments, pissing contests and silly analogies, not to mention semantics and circular logic.

In a few weeks no-one is going to give a flying fig a bout the precise mechanics of the appointment of our next coach or whether the "AFL" had none, some or all the say in it. Seems that either Fagan or Barker is our man, and we are all confident that we are going in the right direction.

 

[Sausages]

In a few weeks no-one is going to give a flying fig a bout the precise mechanics of the appointment of our next coach or whether the "AFL" had none, some or all the say in it. Seems that either Fagan or Barker is our man, and we are all confident that we are going in the right direction.

People will most certainly care IF the appointment has been made without following a due process AND that coach crashes and burns along with the team, again.

I think this is the concern that Roylion identifies - that if the public statements of due process are false, we again risk having a scenario as we have had with our past 2 coaches. We will again be lambasted for not following a "due process" and selecting the best candidate. By the AFL, no less. My future self giggles with enraged mirth.

However - yes, nobody will care if the coach goes on to have great success with us.

And as for the arguments about "this is what happens in the real (corporate) world' - yeah, and that's why old communists like me still hate the corporate world. There are no permanent friends nor permanent enemies, merely permanent interests.