Preview Brisbane Lions v Carlton Blues PF, 5.15pm Saturday 23rd Sep 2023

[twhowler]

D

Did he go in to much detail as to why, based off training or more than that?

I mean i guess he should know but as others have said he would have had every tuesday session one as a light / rehab one for weeks if not months

On afl daily podcast fish said it flared after the port game.

Did say main session is thursday. So i guess if he is not in normal training then we’ll know

 

[Dalions]

Have some faith man!

As people have said, while players have direct opponents, the whole team defence thing mitigates against a direct and unsupported man on man contest.

Lester can expect other talls spoiling, defenders playing in front of Curnow, blocking his run and he also has a right to be confident, because he is in form and all the pressure is actually on Curnow.

As the article on Lester from the club that I posted yesterday, (below) observed, Lester has hardly lost a one on one contest this year.

Reliable Ryan Reinvented For Finals Run



This is the sort of challenge Ryan Lester has been waiting his whole career for.
“Reliable Ryan” has got this!

I would back Lester in if Payne was unable to get up, it’s a massive ask for Gardiner after spending the bulk of the year in the 2’s and the rest of his time battling injury.
If McKay plays, I would play Gardiner on him, McKay has been off all year but after a pretty massive head knock he will be more off than normal imo.
Harris to the resting Ruckman.

 

[Dalions]

Fresh from winning the J.J.Liston Trophy, Jarryd Lyons, in the team, at the very least as a SUB would make me much more relaxed. His numbers in the VFL are astounding.

- Fox Sports

I would love to see him in midfield rotations and could see an argument for playing Lyons and using Robertson as SUB. Alternatively, we go in “unchanged” with Lyons as SUB and the only variable being Payne.

Having Lyons available in the Preliminary Final is much more important than trying to select a backup for McInerney or tinkering with our already exemplary forward line. An injury to Neale, Dunkley or Hugh McCluggage during the game would be really damaging and that is where we would be thanking our lucky stars we have Lyons available.

Not with you on this one, Sub at best for Lyons.
I know you don’t agree but we would be exposed badly if he was in the game from first bounce. Just can’t see it happening.
I think we will want some tall cover in this game especially if Payne gets up, so Gardiner could be the sub, could also see Gunners getting a run as sub for both forward and defensive cover or Fort as Ruck forward cover.
Probably a lot depends on if McKay plays.
He looked very dodgy after his last game.

 

[Nickimus Rex]

Walked past Fages today on my short trip to get a coffee, good omen

 

[Squizz89]

Walked past Fages today on my short trip to get a coffee, good omen

Hope you asked him who Carlton were playing this week.

 

[MSB ROYS]

Just watched the last quarter of the 2009 Final against Carlton. What a game!

 

[3KZ is Football]

Not with you on this one, Sub at best for Lyons.
I know you don’t agree but we would be exposed badly if he was in the game from first bounce. Just can’t see it happening.
I think we will want some tall cover in this game especially if Payne gets up, so Gardiner could be the sub, could also see Gunners getting a run as sub for both forward and defensive cover or Fort as Ruck forward cover.
Probably a lot depends on if McKay plays.
He looked very dodgy after his last game.

Good post and we can agree to disagree, but here’s a question or a thought out loud.

When many people mention Lyons, and express hesitancy, they tend to talk about us being “exposed” and then mention his lack of run. My point would be, if he plays it wouldn’t be because we need a ‘racehorse’, we need an inside mid with clean hands to get us moving.

Looking at his J.J. Liston Season - Lyons played 14 Games, polled votes in 11 games and was BOG on 6 occasions. Now I know that there is an obvious difference in standard, but I don’t believe that Lyons’ VFL opponents would be radically slower than their seniors counterparts. I’m sure many VFL sides have their versions of Sharp or Madden. If Lyons is so slow and so incapable of playing defensively, how did he do it? Opposition teams would have been trying to exploit this supposed shortcoming, surely.

I have ALWAYS, as people know from my advocacy in terms of Ryan Lester, argued that eventually GOOD FORM in the Reserves needs to be rewarded, especially if it is good form from a PROVEN PERFORMER. With that in mind, no player in the ENTIRE RESERVES COMPETITION this season has displayed better form than Jarryd Lyons.

It does seem to be something of a paradox. If the answer is that the standard is radically lower, low enough to render form meaningless, well we are going to be in big trouble bringing Darcy Gardiner back. Best get Payne jabbed up and on the field.

 

[harrypotterafl]

Hope you asked him who Carlton were playing this week.

Nice one squizz

 

[3KZ is Football]

Just watched the last quarter of the 2009 Final against Carlton. What a game!

Bradshaw’s late goal

 

[MSB ROYS]

Bradshaw’s late goal

Rich from 50...

 

[BrainOfMorbius]

On Lyons: His form overall in the reserves has been great, he's been super-professional throughout, and been a clear leader in a team that really needs it.

BUT I will also say that his disposal efficiency, especially in the last few reserves games, was very low. I'm more than happy for him to be the sub this week, and next if we get there. But I feel he's likely to be exposed if we attempt to play him for a whole game. He was a great impact sub against Port's tiring players the other week and that seems to be the best way to utilise his experience.

 

[M Malice]

Good post and we can agree to disagree, but here’s a question or a thought out loud.

When many people mention Lyons, and express hesitancy, they tend to talk about us being “exposed” and then mention his lack of run. My point would be, if he plays it wouldn’t be because we need a ‘racehorse’, we need an inside mid with clean hands to get us moving.

Looking at his J.J. Liston Season - Lyons played 14 Games, polled votes in 11 games and was BOG on 6 occasions. Now I know that there is an obvious difference in standard, but I don’t believe that Lyons’ VFL opponents would be radically slower than their seniors counterparts. I’m sure many VFL sides have their versions of Sharp or Madden. If Lyons is so slow and so incapable of playing defensively, how did he do it? Opposition teams would have been trying to exploit this supposed shortcoming, surely.

I have ALWAYS, as people know from my advocacy in terms of Ryan Lester, argued that eventually GOOD FORM in the Reserves needs to be rewarded, especially if it is good form from a PROVEN PERFORMER. With that in mind, no player in the ENTIRE RESERVES COMPETITION this season has displayed better form than Jarryd Lyons.

It does seem to be something of a paradox. If the answer is that the standard is radically lower, low enough to render form meaningless, well we are going to be in big trouble bringing Darcy Gardiner back. Best get Payne jabbed up and on the field.

Who goes out for Jarryd Lyons 3KZ?

The only 2 I can see that are any chance of being omitted are Dev Robertson and to a lesser extent Callum Ah Chee.... I would be 100% against dropping either of them.

Nightmare scenario, Lyons and Gunston in for those 2.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Who goes out for Jarryd Lyons 3KZ?

The only 2 I can see that are any chance of being omitted are Dev Robertson and to a lesser extent Callum Ah Chee.... I would be 100% against dropping either of them.

Nightmare scenario, Lyons and Gunston in for those 2.

Play him as Sub would be my first choice. I think BrainOfMorbius has nailed it.

The advantage of having him as sub is that it gives you injury cover for Neale and Dunkley. Additionally, if we are struggling in the middle, he could come in to change the dynamic.

There is not a universe where Ah Chee gets dropped and I wouldn’t drop Robertson either.

 

[fugitive]

Fox footy might post an AFL 360 clip on YouTube but honestly, it was painful to watch but what I did like was how calm and collective Lachie was throughout the segment even as a mute spectator, I hope the whole team is as focused as him with filtering out the noise and getting the job done on Saturday!

Anyone have a link to this.

Would love to see it.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I still think we will go in UNCHANGED.

In his last year, as a 34 year old, Bernie Quinlan played a season with a debilitating Achilles Tendon injury and still kicked 52 goals.

Payne - Rest him up, jab him up and get him out there. Give him some of that stuff they gave to McCluggage in the Qualifying Final.

 

[M Malice]

Play him as Sub would be my first choice. I think BrainOfMorbius has nailed it. Alternatively, swap him with Robertson, and make Robertson sub.

The advantage of having him as sub is that it gives you injury cover for Neale and Dunkley. Additionally, if we are struggling in the middle, he could come in to change the dynamic.

I think if Payne is out there is a fair chance a key position player could be sub, may even be someone from left field eg, Tom Fullarton/Darragh Joyce.

I know Fullarton did not play that well in the VFL finals but he can provide cover for key position at both ends of the ground and as a ruckman.

 

[M Malice]

Fox footy might post an AFL 360 clip on YouTube but honestly, it was painful to watch but what I did like was how calm and collective Lachie was throughout the segment even as a mute spectator, I hope the whole team is as focused as him with filtering out the noise and getting the job done on Saturday!

Anyone have a link to this.

Already been posted on here.. page 15 post #370.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Blues last two wins mean nothing except that they won both. Lions have been known to have the goal kicking yips as well. Blues will be battle hardened and full of confidence and are a real chance if the Lions are even slightly off.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I think if Payne is out there is a fair chance a key position player, could even be someone from left field eg, Tom Fullarton/Darragh Joyce.

I know Fullarton did not play that well in the VFL finals but he can provide cover for key position at both ends of the ground and as a ruckman.

I like your thinking. I thought Joyce was terrible against Werribee and they did play Fullerton back for a while in that game.

I have enjoyed the conversation and analysis this morning. Top shelf from Dalions BrainOfMorbius and M Malice

 

[M Malice]

I like your thinking. I thought Joyce was terrible against Werribee and they did play Fullerton back for a while in that game.

I have enjoyed the conversation and analysis this morning. Top shelf from Dalions BrainOfMorbius and M Malice

The 3 wise men.

 

[Dalions]

Good post and we can agree to disagree, but here’s a question or a thought out loud.

When many people mention Lyons, and express hesitancy, they tend to talk about us being “exposed” and then mention his lack of run. My point would be, if he plays it wouldn’t be because we need a ‘racehorse’, we need an inside mid with clean hands to get us moving.

Looking at his J.J. Liston Season - Lyons played 14 Games, polled votes in 11 games and was BOG on 6 occasions. Now I know that there is an obvious difference in standard, but I don’t believe that Lyons’ VFL opponents would be radically slower than their seniors counterparts. I’m sure many VFL sides have their versions of Sharp or Madden. If Lyons is so slow and so incapable of playing defensively, how did he do it? Opposition teams would have been trying to exploit this supposed shortcoming, surely.

I have ALWAYS, as people know from my advocacy in terms of Ryan Lester, argued that eventually GOOD FORM in the Reserves needs to be rewarded, especially if it is good form from a PROVEN PERFORMER. With that in mind, no player in the ENTIRE RESERVES COMPETITION this season has displayed better form than Jarryd Lyons.

It does seem to be something of a paradox. If the answer is that the standard is radically lower, low enough to render form meaningless, well we are going to be in big trouble bringing Darcy Gardiner back. Best get Payne jabbed up and on the field.

Did you watch the recent games against Gold Coast in the VFL?
And the finals games and the one on the weekend.
Speed and run through the centre of the ground was absolutely tearing us apart. Jarryd Lyons was a part of that defensive outfit and was a liability even at that level with his lack of defensive run.
There is no hiding out there when the lack of effort or ability to run is so noticeable.
In the Final against Port when he kicked a goal after 38 seconds (great) even Hodgey commented after, at how after the goal was the fastest he had seen him run in ages, some might think he was joking and he said it in a joking manner but he was being dead serious.
Let’s not forget that Jarryd Lyons was let go for nothing from the Gold Coast for his lack of defensive run.
In finals when the pressure and speed of game is at its highest, one weak link in the chain is all you need to be seriously exposed.

 

[MSB ROYS]

I would play Gardiner for Payne if injured. If there is any doubt then err on the side of caution.

The sub is a quandary as I would be torn between Fort and a runner such as Harry Sharp. Could also consider Jaxon Prior or Lyons.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Did you watch the recent games against Gold Coast in the VFL?
And the finals games and the one on the weekend.
Speed and run through the centre of the ground was absolutely tearing us apart. Jarryd Lyons was a part of that defensive outfit and was a liability even at that level with his lack of defensive run.
There is no hiding out there when the lack of effort or ability to run is so noticeable.
In the Final against Port when he kicked a goal after 38 seconds (great) even Hodgey commented after, at how after the goal was the fastest he had seen him run in ages, some might think he was joking and he said it in a joking manner but he was being dead serious.
Let’s not forget that Jarryd Lyons was let go for nothing from the Gold Coast for his lack of defensive run.
In finals when the pressure and speed of game is at its highest, one weak link in the chain is all you need to be seriously exposed.

I get that, but with what you highlight as an obvious deficiency, albeit in one game, how did he win the Liston and generate the numbers that he did? Does he compensate for lack of run with something else?

You mention Gold Coast letting him go at the end of 2018, because of lack of defensive run, but in much the same vein, how did he collect 23 Brownlow Votes in 2021 (9th in comp), 9 clear of our next best polling player Dayne Zorko and 13 clear of Hugh McCluggage?

This is the paradox. I would contend that yes, he is not quick, but that his abilities in other areas recommend him and in the right role he can be fabulous.

Now I’m not comparing them in terms of football ability, but Leigh Matthews could not run out of sight on the darkest of nights in any sort of time, but he is the greatest player of all times according to many. Late in his career, he was given a specific role up forward and he absolutely killed it. In his last four seasons he kicked 74, 79, 77 and 56 goals. It was just a matter of recognising his limitations and developing a new role.

That is the point of comparison with Lyons. I loved that Fagan, when he used him against Collingwood and Port, gave him time in the midfield rotations, but more importantly, was carving out a role for Lyons turning up and working hard at forward line stoppages.

Anyway, thanks for listening. Good discussion.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I would play Gardiner for Payne if injured. If there is any doubt then err on the side of caution.

The sub is a quandary as I would be torn between Fort and a runner such as Harry Sharp. Could also consider Jaxon Prior or Lyons.

I thought Sharp was diabolical against Werribee. I can’t see how he will ever get a senior game. Don’t mind Prior.

 

[Squizz89]

Just watched that 360 interview “with” Lachie. Cringeworthy. Actually felt embarrassed for Lachie, having to sit through that, through no fault of his own.