50+ games, a quality 1st round selection could play 200+ games
lets be honest it's been some time since Brock has had a quality full season
I hope he goes well however IMO his body is very suspect and struggles with leg speed for the modern game
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Brock mclean deal done!!
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50+ games, a quality 1st round selection could play 200+ games
lets be honest it's been some time since Brock has had a quality full season
I hope he goes well however IMO his body is very suspect and struggles with leg speed for the modern game
I just dont know why Carlton would agree to such a trade so far out from trade week without fully knowing who else could be on the table
I'm glad that these guys are not running my club
The other way to look at it is that they managed to lock in a deal for a player they rated before the general malaise of trade week overtook and potentially scuttled the deal. Neither of us will know if we are right until Brock has played 50+ games for the blues.
I'm happy with the deal as I think he adds to our best 22. I think he fits exactly what we are after and Melb gets exactly what they are after. Name calling and bravado aside i think this is an extremely good trade that potentially benefits both parties. Both gave something up and both walked away with something.
regardless of what happens to Fev I thought another avenue to goal would have been a higher priority or another strong bodied backman
if Fev goes whois going to kick your goals
I just cant see Brock being a player to drive you up the ladder, the 2 issues with your team are
1. lack alternative scoring options
2. thin down back
neither of these issues have been addressed, your midfield isn't the issue
Recent Pick 11's.
2000 - Trent Sporn
2001 - Richard Cole
2002 - Jason Winderlich
2003 - Beau Waters
2004 - Adam Thomson
2005 - Shaun Higgins
2006 - Andrejs Everitt
Too hard to really gauge how Veszpremi, Sidebottom and maybe even Everitt will turn out. However, looking at that list of players who have now played a fair chunk of their career only Higgins and Winderlich are anywhere near the class of Mclean. Thats 2 out of 7 number 11 picks!!! Personally id take Mclean over every number 11 since 2000 expect Higgins. Higgins is as injury prone as Mclean anyway!
People get way to excited by low draft picks, the fact of the matter is Mclean is worth so much more than pick 11!!
My argument will not change later in the week either, when/if Fevola gets traded. Not even the number one pick goes near compensating for a player of his class.
People have to realise draft picks are so speculative, and this yrs draft will no doubt produce many very good players, but its overall depth is lacking!
2000 - Trent Sporn
2001 - Richard Cole
2002 - Jason Winderlich
2003 - Beau Waters
2004 - Adam Thomson
2005 - Shaun Higgins
2006 - Andrejs Everitt
Too hard to really gauge how Veszpremi, Sidebottom and maybe even Everitt will turn out. However, looking at that list of players who have now played a fair chunk of their career only Higgins and Winderlich are anywhere near the class of Mclean. Thats 2 out of 7 number 11 picks!!! Personally id take Mclean over every number 11 since 2000 expect Higgins. Higgins is as injury prone as Mclean anyway!
People get way to excited by low draft picks, the fact of the matter is Mclean is worth so much more than pick 11!!
My argument will not change later in the week either, when/if Fevola gets traded. Not even the number one pick goes near compensating for a player of his class.
People have to realise draft picks are so speculative, and this yrs draft will no doubt produce many very good players, but its overall depth is lacking!
I'm constantly amazed how many people think Kosi in the ruck would be an improvement. King getting a bit of surgury and he will be back better than (your ) Blake next year.
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3rd deal confirmed on trade tracker
gibbs_brownlow
Debutant
I'm surprised Carlton have given up pick 11 for Mclean, i was hoping for another forward, am really hoping we go after Ben McKinley from the Eagles!! But Brock is a solid midfielder, Carlton can not be complaining when players out of the top 10 aren't that great....
melbournemartin
Brownlow Medallist
How can you possibly quantify McLean's absence putting back Scully and Trengove two years?
The deal is fair. McLean can be a fantastic midfielder and I hope he reclaims some good form and gets his body right.
Your info on the Carlton list is a bit sketchy there, Sloan.
At the end of Season 2009, Carlton had three glaring issues (list wise):
Firstly, the lack of inside mids. Judd was being a bit wasted in an inside role, Hadley could do the job but he's a second-tier option, and Joseph is too raw. To absolutely finish off our midfield, we needed to get this right. Mids win flags.
Secondly, a lack of options to Fevola. This was adressed in part in last year's draft, and will continue to be so I'd imagine. Yarran was recruited for this role, and had little to no impact last season. Expect more in the future. Waite comes back and may well find himself up forward. Kruezer is also a Kossie-type, who can play more up forward if/when we can get Warnock on the park (who didn't play a game in 2009).
Thin down back, but mainly because many of our genuine prospects there are pretty young and are slowly developing as a unit. Sure it'd be nice to trade into a bigger body down there, but trade week is only a day old... more to come I'd expect.
Carlton, for better or worse, has clearly decided to focus on building a very very strong midfield. The '09 model was justifiably criticised at times for being too one-way. The McLean trade makes a lot of sense for us.
I reckon 11 was a fair price. Given the twelve 17yo's that GC has already ripped out of this draft (it's FAR from uncompromised)... pick 11 is probably akin to a 16th-18th pick in a stronger draft. I'm ok with that.
At the end of Season 2009, Carlton had three glaring issues (list wise):
Firstly, the lack of inside mids. Judd was being a bit wasted in an inside role, Hadley could do the job but he's a second-tier option, and Joseph is too raw. To absolutely finish off our midfield, we needed to get this right. Mids win flags.
Secondly, a lack of options to Fevola. This was adressed in part in last year's draft, and will continue to be so I'd imagine. Yarran was recruited for this role, and had little to no impact last season. Expect more in the future. Waite comes back and may well find himself up forward. Kruezer is also a Kossie-type, who can play more up forward if/when we can get Warnock on the park (who didn't play a game in 2009).
Thin down back, but mainly because many of our genuine prospects there are pretty young and are slowly developing as a unit. Sure it'd be nice to trade into a bigger body down there, but trade week is only a day old... more to come I'd expect.
Carlton, for better or worse, has clearly decided to focus on building a very very strong midfield. The '09 model was justifiably criticised at times for being too one-way. The McLean trade makes a lot of sense for us.
I reckon 11 was a fair price. Given the twelve 17yo's that GC has already ripped out of this draft (it's FAR from uncompromised)... pick 11 is probably akin to a 16th-18th pick in a stronger draft. I'm ok with that.
Flown somewhat under the radar that we had 13 players kick more than ten goals this year. This is a deal more than Adelaide, and only two less than the lauded WB's. Not saying Fev can easily be replaced, but our forward structure was much improved this year with many more avenues to goal. And no doubt if Fev is traded we would hope to have some sort of ready made replacement come our way in return, or at least trade for one.
Backline is just fine...guys stood up well this year with our two KPD's out for much of the year, and rebound was impressive with Thornton and Bower highlights. Could use another big bodied defender to release Waite further up the ground, but the fragile Carlton defense is very much a myth.
Biggest hole in the list that needed addressing was a hard bodied midfielder. When Hadley was fit this year we looked a 5-6 goal better team. One could assume that McLean will bring a bit more to the table than Hadley, on a more consistent basis. Helping Judd shoulder some of the heavy stuff, and releasing him to get on the outside of the clearances more often will make a hell of a difference.
Offensive and defensive structures are very much influenced by the midfield nowadays. Our inside 50 stats were great, and improved midfield pressure will only make them better. More quality mids means less teams running the ball at will through the corridor which was a problem for us this year.
Make no mistake, the Carlton recruiting department have just filled the biggest hole on our list.
Fair deal.
I rate McLean- good move for carlton. Good opportunity for the dees to have a really strong draft too.
I rate McLean- good move for carlton. Good opportunity for the dees to have a really strong draft too.
Nice post 2004 Naughton. Could use a bit more sense over on the Carlton board! Or have you been there and given up?
Wow! Because pick 11 hasn't had the greatest success in the past it must mean that this one will be crap as well.
melbournemartin
Brownlow Medallist
I'm pretty sure there were only 2 or 3 max 17yr olds taken in the top 10 last year
pick 11 = 11 - 15ish
Yeah, that's great, but you're forgetting one thing, we have access to every player in the draft from pick 10 onwards. Isolating a static pick proves little. Why is pick 11 suspect just because another club may have stuffed up the same pick years ago ?
The better way to look at it is to pool the likely players to be considered at such a pick, i.e players taken between picks 10 and 20 in any given draft.
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The Octopus
Team Captain
Good deal for both. Melb get a good pick (although in a very weak draft it may not be as good as previous years)
Carlton get another man to help free up Judd and Murphy.
Win / Win
Carlton really lose nothing as they have a team full of kids and picks this year may turn out to be wasted for them.
Carlton get another man to help free up Judd and Murphy.
Win / Win
Carlton really lose nothing as they have a team full of kids and picks this year may turn out to be wasted for them.
The Draft pool has decreased from previous years due to the increasing of the draft age. This means players like Matera, Toy and Darling could not be considering in the 2009 draft.
This means that a pick 11 is roughly equal to a pick 14+ in previous years.
Decent trade by both teams IMO win/win maybe lean towards melb but who knows
Tell me the good drafts ?
2002, 2003, and 2004 all are very very average drafts. 2006 has lots of players that look OK, but nothing special.
I suspect that the draft won't be any worse than many others.
Usually about 25% of the first 20 are bottom aged, so pick 11 equates to roughly 13-15 in other years.
I'm quite sure last year there were only 1, 2 maybe 3 players taken at this age in the top 10 last year
Meaning if it was last year then it would be worth around 12 - 14
It has been said by many that the top 15 - 25 are as good as other years gone by but it drops off considerably after
that
Seems to be only Carlton fans thinking they came out on top and mostly only Carlton fans thinking its fair. I think pick 16 - 20 would have been fair
He is a centre square player. He is a 4 clearance a game player over his career which is pretty good. He has also attracted tage throughout that career. He wont be tagged at Carlton and will be free to win the ball inside, block, tackle and be a link man. Roles he is very good at when 100% fit. He has not been 100% fit for a while. That is the risk with him.
Melbourne get a pretty decent draft pick and Carlton get protection for Judd. they can't rely on Hadley to be fit considering his history, so they have gone out and got a younger and better inside player. Murphy can play on the half forward line and changing on ball and Gibbs can play just about anywhere.
Melbourne trade a disgruntled player for a decent deal and Carlton address a weakness.
Huh?? Say what??
Losing Mclean puts Melbourne's midfield back 2 years. It means Scully and Trengove need to take on more responsibility straight away.
It is a fair trade all-round. Both teams have lost something precious.
Melbourne lose a top 5 pick and leader, Carlton lose their prized first round pick.
It's the fairest deal you could imagine.
