Brownlow Medal: Should the name be changed to Haydn Bunton Medal?

[pazza]

No the thread is about having the Best and Fairest medal named after a famous player from the history of the game who has connections with five states rather than an obscure Victorian football administrator. It's a national competition lets respect the traditions of all the states.

Brownlow was obscure? And how do you work that out. Geelong and VFL Secretary for 27 years (until he passed away in '24 and was honoured by the league in this way).

 

[wells is god]

I think it should be because Bunton was cleary amongst the best ever but you can just change something with such tradition it would be too much of a hassle and imagine the complaints they would outnumber the praises of this action.

 

[patsmith]

It's a great idea, but it won't happen, nor should it happen.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Many have said that Williams 'lost' the 93 (?) brownlow in his famous 44 posession game (0 votes) because he was mouthing off to the umpires all day.

No Dan,

people have guessed that that might be it, because it was one of the darkest days in umpire voting for the brownlow.

the real point is that it was inexplicable, and the idea has follwed to "maybe it was that, beats me???"

 

[tigerdan]

No Dan,

people have guessed that that might be it, because it was one of the darkest days in umpire voting for the brownlow.

the real point is that it was inexplicable, and the idea has follwed to "maybe it was that, beats me???"

Actually, YES, if you believe the story. Apparently (and I was not there, obviously) the umpire said to Williams towards the end of the game words to the effect of 'one more remark like that and you can forget about getting any votes'.

That was the story at the time. Whether it is true or not is another thing, but that was the story that did the rounds.

And it does not change the fact that the award is for best AND fairest, which was my point.

 

[hotpie]

You joined our competition. The AFL is an expanded VFL. All previous records stand, and rightfully so.

There's no need to change the name of the Brownlow, as worthy as a guy like Hayden Bunton was.

In truth the Sandover and Magarey medals should be renamed, as the best and fairest player in the state no longer wins that award. Instead it goes to the fourtieth best player in the state. Comparing this years winner to winners of the past is an ibnsult to the greats who have won it before them.

Perhaps they should be called the Warren Ralph award and the Grenville Deitrich award, as tribute to how second rate these competitions have become.

 

[*PAF]

...
In truth the Sandover and Magarey medals should be renamed, as the best and fairest player in the state no longer wins that award. Instead it goes to the fourtieth best player in the state. Comparing this years winner to winners of the past is an ibnsult to the greats who have won it before them.
...

Both that and what Tootsie said is correct.

All 3 major comps have changed.
There now is a super-comp. It is far superior to what any of the 3 state comps ever were.
Trying to keep traditions of the old comps and comparing premierships etc is just plain wacky.

 

[hotpie]

Both that and what Tootsie said is correct.

All 3 major comps have changed.
There now is a super-comp. It is far superior to what any of the 3 state comps ever were.
Trying to keep traditions of the old comps and comparing premierships etc is just plain wacky.

No, I was having a joke. Theres no need to change anything. Competitions will always change, its just evolution, but there's no need to go around renaming everything just for the sake of it. Its pointless.

 

[*PAF]

No, I was having a joke. ...

I wasn't.

... Theres no need to change anything. Competitions will always change, its just evolution, but there's no need to go around renaming everything just for the sake of it. Its pointless.

There kind of is though.

We have changed our competitions.
The SANFL now is half way between the old amateurs and SANFL.
Same goes for the VFL and the WAFL.
The AFL is just out there like nothing before. It is not a natural evolution. It is a forced evolution. Forced by the TV rights etc.
Remember and recognise the old, in with the new.

 

[hotpie]

I wasn't.



There kind of is though.

We have changed our competitions.
The SANFL now is half way between the old amateurs and SANFL.
Same goes for the VFL and the WAFL.
The AFL is just out there like nothing before. It is not a natural evolution. It is a forced evolution. Forced by the TV rights etc.
Remember and recognise the old, in with the new.

A good way to remember and recognize the old is to not change the name of awards.

ps all evolution in football is forced. Rule changes, style of game, professionalism, nationalisation, medical treatments, its all human intervention and progress. Its still evolution though.

 

[Longy413]

The VFL competition still goes on so the Brownlow can go to the 2nd tier competition (so it is not lost) along with the medals that remain in all other states 2nd tier competitions.

So the VFL just scrap the history of their B&F award (Liston Trophy) so we can keep the history of the Browlow alive by awarding it in a competition it was never intended for and please those who want to make change for changes sake?

 

[*PAF]

... ps all evolution in football is forced. Rule changes, style of game, professionalism, nationalisation, medical treatments, its all human intervention and progress. Its still evolution though.

That we agree on.
Where we disagree is that to me the AFL is an evolution of all state based leagues, whereas to you it is only an evolution of the VFL.

The VFL was the strongest of the three leagues both in terms of numbers (4 million people base Vs 2 lots of 1 Million) and also Melbourne has a greater sponsorship base than WA and SA combined. At least it did back in the 80s.
So it made sense that the VFL was the instigator/backbone so to speak.

 

[Truetiger]

What next the media giving the votes in place of the umpires please.

 

[Toots Hibbert]

What next the media giving the votes in place of the umpires please.

No just recognition that it's a National Comp. The Vics don't own it and there should be recognition of the traditions of all states. Haydn Bunton represents that unifying force through his origins and diverse football career. With three Brownlows and 3 Sandovers as well as a season at Port to go with his birth in NSW and 117 games at Fitzroy whose history is now linked with Brisbane he is the perfect figure to give the new name of our national Best and Fairest award.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Actually, YES, if you believe the story. Apparently (and I was not there, obviously) the umpire said to Williams towards the end of the game words to the effect of 'one more remark like that and you can forget about getting any votes'.

That was the story at the time. Whether it is true or not is another thing, but that was the story that did the rounds.

No it wasn't the story at the time, that is an urban myth.

 

[The Opposition]

No just recognition that it's a National Comp. The Vics don't own it and there should be recognition of the traditions of all states. Haydn Bunton represents that unifying force through his origins and diverse football career. With three Brownlows and 3 Sandovers as well as a season at Port to go with his birth in NSW and 117 games at Fitzroy whose history is now linked with Brisbane he is the perfect figure to give the new name of our national Best and Fairest award.

Can all you interstate people just get over the fact the the AFL is an expansion of the VFL. The most teams came from (and still come from) Victoria, the most money and sponsership came and comes from Victoria. Get over it. Your premierships dont count, your games dont count (but we wont continue that debate).
Keep the brownlow medal because, as someone said before, what would happen to the VFL award now? Mr Liston wouldnt be too happy would he?
Be happy that you are a part of the competition and just acknowledge that the VFL was the beginning of the AFL and it will always be like that. Stop trying to change our history because all your teams had to so as to join our competition

 

[Crow-mosone]

Can all you interstate people just get over the fact the the AFL is an expansion of the VFL. The most teams came from (and still come from) Victoria, the most money and sponsership came and comes from Victoria. Get over it. Your premierships dont count, your games dont count (but we wont continue that debate).
Keep the brownlow medal because, as someone said before, what would happen to the VFL award now? Mr Liston wouldnt be too happy would he?
Be happy that you are a part of the competition and just acknowledge that the VFL was the beginning of the AFL and it will always be like that. Stop trying to change our history because all your teams had to so as to join our competition

what is the source of your support for the status quo?
is it because you believe the AFL, really is the VFL or is it because you're dad tells you so? I reckon given you were about age 2 when the national comp started, that you've not really experienced anything other than a national comp?

I don't think it will change, and perhaps it doesn't need to; but the arguments for keeping the brownlow name seem pretty thin on the ground here.