Updated Bruce Lehrmann Pt2 * Reynolds Defamation Trial Current

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Here is PART 1

Historical Rape Allegation Against Fmr AG Christian Porter
The Alexander Matters matters

Just a reminder, this is the crime board and we need to be aware that there will be victims of crime either watching this thread or engaging in here from time to time. A degree of respect in all discussions is expected.

LINK TO TIMELINE
CJS INQUIRY
FINAL REPORT – BOARD OF INQUIRY – CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM
Joint media statement – Chief Minister and Attorney-General



FIONA BROWN - AFFIDAVIT
 
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HirdsTheWord said:
I don't believe either of them? They are both not credible witnesses.

Thats why a justice system is in place.

I have told you several times my view is that Lehrmann probably did it. But I am not 100% convinced.

You just don't like the answer I'm giving you lol.
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So it's going to take a few months to walk back your previous positions on this Lehrmann character.

One step at a time!
 
Ghost Patrol said:
So it's going to take a few months to walk back your previous positions on this.

One step at a time!
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huh?

Dunno what previous position you think im changing.

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Ghost Patrol said:
Do you think Linda Reynolds is the real victim here?
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wtf are you on about now?

Who even mentioned Reynolds?

You're like that guy who takes a big swing, misses and hits a kid.

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HirdsTheWord said:
Mainly because there is a complete lack of physical evidence. Thats why.

The circumstantial evidence is not compelling enough for me to be 100% sure, though I would be happy to say it probably did happen.
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That's reasonable.

Do you think there have been other cases or incidents etc, where there wasn't a complete lack of physical evidence of something, but you still knew that it had occurred?

Because rape is one of those notoriously difficult things to completely prove with physical evidence.
Many cases are only received years after the incident/s, in which there is no longer any physical evidence, and it's very difficult to even have compelling 'circumstantial evidence'.
But there must be some of those cases where you would still say that the person was r*ped. Rather than the qualifier of 'probably', I assume?
 
CM86 said:
That's reasonable.

Do you think there have been other cases or incidents etc, where there wasn't a complete lack of physical evidence of something, but you still knew that it had occurred?

Because rape is one of those notoriously difficult things to completely prove with physical evidence.
Many cases are only received years after the incident/s, in which there is no longer any physical evidence, and it's very difficult to even have compelling 'circumstantial evidence'.
But there must be some of those cases where you would still say that the person was r*ped. Rather than the qualifier of 'probably', I assume?
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Not off the top of my head. But there are probably some.

Criminal cases relying entirely on circumstantial evidence are pretty rare to get a guilty conviction.
 
CM86 said:
Do you think there is any aspect of this case that makes you more hesitant to believe it DID happen, compared to others where you would accept that it DID happen?
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I'm not sure of a similar case to this one, so to draw a parallel is unlikely apologies.

When a judge says the prosecution is not a reliable witness. I think is highly telling.
 
Ghost Patrol said:
Sorry, I thought we were all adults here.
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then act like one?

You are treated how you approach others. Do better if you want better.

You come rambling in saying something about me changing my tune, which is false, than something about Reynolds, when she wasn't even mentioned?
 
FIGJAM said:
Couldn't agree more!

That said, I'm glad he did, as despite the trauma that he re-inflicted on Higgins, he did allow Lee to forensically get to the bottom of everything and find what I consider to be the the smoking gun, which was the text exchange between Higgins and her Dad, that might not have been emphasised in the criminal trial.

What Bruce also did of benefit (outside of bankrupting itself!) was drag Network 10 and Wilkinson over the coals for their shoddy journalistic practices and blind belief on their primary focus, which was the false political cover-up angle and practically fact checked nothing. They'll have to pay the bulk of the money for putting a program to air that shouldn't have happened (at least in the way that it did).
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I consider to be the the smoking gun, which was the text exchange between Higgins and her Dad,

I thought in the civil trial, when her Dad was asked about her telling him she was r*ped, he denied it?
 
HirdsTheWord said:
When a judge says the prosecution is not a reliable witness. I think is highly telling.
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What is telling is your failure to understand the context of that statement, despite the fact that Justice Lee made it quite clear that it was not a statement that was universal in application to the full circumstances of the Lehrmann rape trial.

To back it up He even referenced the defunct legal maxim:

Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus

Look it up because I can't be fecked explaining it to you. It has been referenced here several times by me. But it's clear you only want to hear what aligns with your own prejudices.

In any case, the words that mattered most from Justice Lee in relation to Bruce Lehrmann and Brittany Higgins were these ones at paragraph 620 of his judgment in the Lehrmann defamation trial:

"Mr Lehrmann r*ped Ms Higgins."


Not sure why you and others like Lady O are yet again trying to pretend otherwise. It just reflects on your own prejudices.


Meanwhile, in other news, the ABS released data today showing that the sexual assault victimisation rate in Australia has gone up 27% in just three years. I wonder why?



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Kurve said:
Who was it in here that poo poo'd the idea that Kerry Stokes was backing Lehrmann from the shadows? :tearsofjoy:
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it’s a ridiculous idea and I’m not sure why tin foil hatters still persist with this.

Do you really think Wilkinson would be going after Ten for costs if she knew Lehrmann had money?
 

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MPMonkeys said:
it’s a ridiculous idea and I’m not sure why tin foil hatters still persist with this.
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It's not ridiculous at all. Kerry Stokes could have easily asked his lawyers to back Lehrmann for free and if it failed, he'd sort them out.

Easy as and that way he stays in the shadows.

It's very naive to think this doesn't go on.
 
Kurve said:
It's not ridiculous at all. Kerry Stokes could have easily asked his lawyers to back Lehrmann for free and if it failed, he'd sort them out.

Easy as and that way he stays in the shadows.

It's very naive to think this doesn't go on.
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It’s preposterous. I’m not a conspiracy theorist.
 
FIGJAM said:
Interesting article from this thread's favourite rag, The Australian, on potential change in sexual assault cases:




I've said many times in the past that a more inquisitorial system would be best for these sensitive matters.

I take some issue with the criminal jury being given the "same facts" as the civil trial, because there was even more evidence available to Justice Lee.

The criminal jury are, I assume, armed with pens and notepads, before adjourning under some pressure, being expected to nail a life-changing result in days, or weeks at the most, riding an emotional roller coaster.

Justice Lee had months and a team of staff to work through the micro issues, presumably with the aid of technology and a perfect timeline flow chart (something I feel AI could be very useful for going forward).

I know which judgement system that I'd rather be faced with either as complainant or a defendant.
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So, in short, I interpret this as the rich pay compensation to make a sexual assault allegation disappear while the poor go to jail.
 

Bruce Lehrmann to stand trial on Qld rape charges​


A Toowoomba Magistrates Court has this morning committed Bruce Lehrmann to stand trial for two counts of rape, alleged to have occurred in Toowoomba, west of Brisbane, in October 2021

He will face a judge or jury in a District court trial on a date to be set.

Mr Lehrmann was excused from attending the court for the committal hearing with his legal team's argument he has no case to answer being rejected.


Edit - more details:

Magistrate Mark Howden on Thursday dismissed a bid by Lehrmann’s barrister to have the case thrown out, finding there was sufficient evidence of a crime having been committed for the matter to proceed to trial in the District Court.

Lehrmann, who participated in the hearing via audio link, is accused of raping a woman twice after a night out in Toowoomba in 2021. The pair had met at The Vault club, before leaving together to spend the night at the home of one of Lehrmann’s friends.

Lehrmann’s barrister, Andrew Hoare KC, on Thursday told Toowoomba Magistrates Court there was consensual sex between Lehrmann and the woman which he argued “contextualised” the events that followed.

Referring to the prosecution’s evidence that the complainant said she “woke up” during the alleged rape, Hoare argued the complainant had consumed alcohol and cocaine, which affected memory.

Crown prosecutor Nicole Friedewald told the court the complainant had agreed there was earlier consensual sex, but the charges related to what subsequently occurred and while she had been unconscious.

“What is required is consent to be given to each act of intercourse,” Friedewald said.

Friedewald said the complainant never consented to having sex without a condom and had told Lehrmann to stop attempting to have unprotected sex.

When the woman repositioned her body, forcing Lehrmann off her, the accused resumed his position to rape her, the court was told.

“He was consoling her throughout that act, saying: ‘it’s OK, it’s OK’. He continued having intercourse until he ejaculated inside of her,” Friedewald said.
 
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From this thread's favourite rag, The Australian:


Ms Friedewald said the woman told police in her initial complaint on November 26 that “she had not yet accepted or come to terms with what had happened to her”.

The prosecutor also submitted text messages between the woman and a friend that occurred in the weeks following the assault.

“I just feel so shameful,” the woman wrote.

The friend responded, noting at the end: “You also need to think about whether you ever would want to report this to police. There are options to do that anonymously too, if you are worried”

The complainant then responded, “What do you mean report it?” to which her friend indicated that the woman had been sexually assaulted.

Ms Friedewald said: “The complainant does not at that time question whether that is in fact true.

“There is no dispute by her or confusion about what happened to her. Rather, what she immediately says is, ‘Who is going to believe me?’.”
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All of the above having occurred before she realised that Bryce was Bruce shows someone grappling with a bad situation and hope that the jury / judge can see that.

Based on various articles and Bruce's lawyers' keenness to get a heap of electronic data from the complainant to start with has to do with the fact that they were cordial over Snapchat afterwards. I'm guessing Bruce's lawyers will angle that she only made the complaint after she clocked Bruce and want to spin the narrative of "her just chasing fame", rather than the narrative of her realising that he a serial sex pest.
 
HirdsTheWord said:
tbh Lehrmann rolled his dice, he should have wondered off into the sunset but like Mr Lee said, he went back into the lion's cage to collect his hat.

He opened himself to it and got smoked in the process.
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Agree, rule #7 of a happy life is to quit while you're ahead. Bruce, the rapist, did not.
 

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Updated Bruce Lehrmann Pt2 * Reynolds Defamation Trial Current

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