Updated Bruce Lehrmann Pt2 * ACT Bar clears former DPP head Shane Drumgold of misconduct

[Kurve]

Here is PART 1

Historical Rape Allegation Against Fmr AG Christian Porter
The Alexander Matters matters

Just a reminder, this is the crime board and we need to be aware that there will be victims of crime either watching this thread or engaging in here from time to time. A degree of respect in all discussions is expected.

LINK TO TIMELINE
CJS INQUIRY
FINAL REPORT – BOARD OF INQUIRY – CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM
Joint media statement – Chief Minister and Attorney-General



FIONA BROWN - AFFIDAVIT

 

[Kurve]

Also any discussions about couches etc. they are not relevant to this trial.

If discussions about couches weren't relevant, former AFP Assistant Commissioner Leeanne Close wouldn't have been required to take the stand at this trial.

 

[Underarrest_]

When exactly was she informed again?

I agree. There were others along the chain before this got to Reynolds.
I do believe though that it was a duty of care to manage any meetings with B in a sensitive way including follow ups with her to check in and ensure she was receiving other support.

 

[MPMonkeys]

Does this mean BL needs to be referred to as an alleged rapist if Lee’s findings are no longer considered relevant?
And BH as an alleged victim?

 

[Kurve]

How does that relate to a rape victim being forced to choose between her career and a pursuing a rape claim?

It wouldn't be reasonable to expect that a junior staffer who'd been r*ped in the Minister for Defence's office, could stay there while charges were pursued and through the ensuing trial.

Of course she had to make a choice. Whether that choice was actually forced on her or not, or she simply understood that it wouldn't be possible, we'll see.

 

[jason_recliner]

It wouldn't be reasonable to expect that a junior staffer who'd been r*ped in the Minister for Defence's office, could stay there while charges were pursued and through the ensuing trial.

Of couse she could have stayed. Similar situations play out around Australia all the time, sadly, and the victims don't always leave the employers.

 

[Kurve]

Of couse she could have stayed. Similar situations play out around Australia all the time, sadly, and the victims don't always leave the employers.

Not all victims are r*ped in Parliament House where you could expect the press to be all over it.

Are you a female that was r*ped and seen naked in the Minister for Defence's office, a semi conscious mess, breasts and vagina exposed for anyone to see who walked through the door? Knowing this is all going to come out through any trial?

It just isn't reasonable to expect she could have stayed.

 

[MPMonkeys]

Not all victims are r*ped in Parliament House where you could expect the press to be all over it.

Are you a female that was r*ped and seen naked in the Minister for Defence's office, a semi conscious mess, breasts and vagina exposed for anyone to see who walked through the door? Knowing this is all going to come out through any trial?

It just isn't reasonable to expect she could have stayed.

Again with this insinuation that because this occurred in the ‘Minister for Defence’ s office that somehow Reynolds is responsible for that.

I do agree though that BH may not have wanted to stay however isn’t her whole complaint been that she wanted to stay and was somehow forced out?

 

[jason_recliner]

Not all victims are r*ped in Parliament House where you could expect the press to be all over it.

Are you a female that was r*ped and seen naked in the Minister for Defence's office, a semi conscious mess, breasts and vagina exposed for anyone to see who walked through the door? Knowing this is all going to come out through any trial?

It just isn't reasonable to expect she could have stayed.

People gossip, things have habit of leaking throughout an organisation. Some people choose to stay on and they know everyone around them knows. Not all, some leave, but to insist Higgins had no choice is disingenuous.

 

[Kurve]

People gossip, things have habit of leaking throughout an organisation. Some people choose to stay on and they know everyone around them knows. Not all, some leave, but to insist Higgins had no choice is disingenuous.

I wouldn't have felt I had a choice and would have left. Absolutely 100%.

 

[CM86]

I think this has to be the point of no return.
Reynolds must drop her vexatious lawsuit against Higgins.

Only the the most hate filled people could support Reynolds continuing to put Higgins through this harassment and stress during pregnancy. The risks are too high.
Let her start to heal and live her life.

I just have a few things I want to say.

--------------------------------------------
It's really hard to read this thread.
It's disgusting, harmful and disheartening the lengths some posters will go to to 'score points', as if there isn't an actual victim here.

Higgins has been betrayed, let down and attacked by almost every system that's meant to be in place to protect her.
The Government, the police, the courts, the judicial system, the media, the public, her employers, security.
But she's talked about as part of the problem...
And how we 'can't let her get away with everything, just because she got herself r*ped'.
It hurts my chest seeing these perspectives.
-------------------------------------------



-------------------------------------------
For the record.
There WAS evidence of rape. there WAS NO evidence of NO cover up. At no point was it proven that a cover up did not happen. That is a lie, you are repeating a lie to attack a victim of rape whenever you make that claim.

Lee found that there was MORE than enough available evidence to say that he believed that Higgins was r*ped by Lehrmann.
Lee found that there wasn't enough available evidence from what The Project et al had at the time to say that Reynolds or Brown engaged in a cover up.

Lee did not ever state that there was enough evidence to prove there was no cover up.
He even specifically left it open that if it were looked into more, it could be a valid position.
His rhetoric based on the evidence available to him at the time, was that he clearly didn't believe there was one. That is not proving that there wasn't one. But he did say there was more than enough evidence available to say Higgins was r*ped.
-------------------------------------------


-------------------------------------------
Higgins FELT that she had to choose between her job and justice. That is not a lie.
I cannot understand the gaslighting, the hate, the misinformation from posters in this thread. Outside of them having a connection to Reynolds or just a general hatred of women and victims of sexual assault.
If you intend on staying in the same work industry, you never burn bridges and will always attempt to leave the best impression on your senior/boss etc. It's ridiculous people gaslight like this is unusual.
Of course Higgins sent platitudes to someone with so much power and influence like Reynolds.
Stop pretending a text message saying "I'm fine" is evidence that she was clearly fine, therefore lying about being r*ped or stressed at work etc.
-------------------------------------------


-------------------------------------------
One of the largest and most damaging attacks on Higgins has been her compensation payout.
That was maliciously leaked by Reynolds...

Linda Reynolds repeatedly leaked confidential correspondence about Brittany Higgins' compensation payout to columnist Janet Albrechtsen.
Albrechtsen has been essential in forming the confusion, distrust, and opposition to Higgins and the compensation payout Higgins received.

Albrechtsen's involvement with Sofronoff is one of the main reasons he's now being investigated for his conduct where he found the AFP did nothing wrong, and the prosecutor was forced to step down etc.
The police who didn't want the case to go to trial.
Some of the police who are now being investigated for corruption.
The police who shared Higgins personal and private information with the media, that she was forced to hand over during the criminal trial that failed due to juror misconduct.
Higgins was r*ped.
And the only reason we know about it, is because she went to the media.
The only reason she has had any justice at all, is because she went to the media.

And every step of the way the deep fear we have of ever talking about it is solidified more and more... The justification of why you DO NOT COME FORWARD if you are a victim of sexual assault...
Because it's not worth it... And it's probably your own fault...
--------------------------------


And finally to a certain poster.
Please stop telling other posters (specifically female posters) to 'calm down' as if they're being 'hysterical', when they are simply correcting you.
And stop lying about moderation.


---------------------------------
I view gaslighting as a form of abuse, even on forums. And so in connection to this topic it really upsets me so I had to log in and keyboard bash! Haha.

Be well all. Sorry for my rant.

 

[FIGJAM]

Of course she had to make a choice. Whether that choice was actually forced on her or not, or she simply understood in feeling the pressure, that it wouldn't be possible, we'll see.

If she had to make a choice, then why did Brown and Reynolds walk her to the AFP with literally no threat on her job?

And then why did Cash some 2 years later (on a covertly recorded conversation by Brittany) try and bend-over-backwards to keep her in the fold when she found out?

There is this perennial 'feeling' versus 'fact' that I believe is the root cause of the great divide in this thread.

 

[Kurve]

If she had to make a choice, then why did Brown and Reynolds walk her to the AFP with literally no threat on her job?

And then why did Cash some 2 years later (on a covertly recorded conversation by Brittany) try and bend-over-backwards to keep her in the fold when she found out?

There is this perennial 'feeling' versus 'fact' that I believe is the root cause of the great divide in this thread.

A rape victims understanding of the situation she was in, can't simply be mocked as 'feelings' therefore should be ignored.

Higgins felt she couldn't continue working in there and I think everybody should be able to understand why.

Brown refers to her own feelings many times through her affidavit.

 

[FIGJAM]

And finally to a certain poster.
Please stop telling other posters (specifically female posters) to 'calm down' as if they're being 'hysterical', when they are simply correcting you.

Given that you are referring to me, I told Festerz (male I think) to "calm down" and referred to "some others" (most of whom I believe to be male).

It was in reference to me literally pointing to evidence from the current trial, upon which I made no other statement and in fact, said that it actually didn't mean anything in isolation.

As for the use of the word "hysterical" in this thread, the only time I've used it was when I was called hysterical!

As for the rest of your post, I am sorry that anything that said that isn't completely in the victim's favour triggers you. This is a hyper-complicated situation due to no small part due to the complainant going to the media before pressing charges.

I do not appreciate it when you try to infer that this (ie. the specific case and subsequent discussion) is 'normal' and that we're somehow contributing to victims not coming forward. It's completely unfair!

 

[Ghost Patrol]

If she had to make a choice, then why did Brown and Reynolds walk her to the AFP with literally no threat on her job?

And then why did Cash some 2 years later (on a covertly recorded conversation by Brittany) try and bend-over-backwards to keep her in the fold when she found out?

There is this perennial 'feeling' versus 'fact' that I believe is the root cause of the great divide in this thread.

Isn't the entire defamation case based around Linda Reynold's feelings?

 

[campbell]

Does this mean BL needs to be referred to as an alleged rapist if Lee’s findings are no longer considered relevant?
And BH as an alleged victim?

What is wrong with you?

 

[CM86]

Given that you are referring to me, I told Festerz (male I think) to "calm down" and referred to "some others" (most of whom I believe to be male).

It was in reference to me literally pointing to evidence from the current trial, upon which I made no other statement and in fact, said that it actually didn't mean anything in isolation.

As for the use of the word "hysterical" in this thread, the only time I've used it was when I was called hysterical!

As for the rest of your post, I am sorry that anything that said that isn't completely in the victim's favour triggers you. This is a hyper-complicated situation due to no small part due to the complainant going to the media before pressing charges.

I do not appreciate it when you try to infer that this (ie. the specific case and subsequent discussion) is 'normal' and that we're somehow contributing to victims not coming forward. It's completely unfair!

It's interesting. Not all that long ago this kind of post would have worked on me. But it's like a smashed mirror moment type thing.
Now that I've seen you for what you are, it just doesn't work anymore.

I've said my piece. Your deliberate 'misunderstandings', 'misinterpretations' selective forgetfulness that let you get away with gaslighting and insults, while setting the narrative you want, won't woke on me.

It's abuse that I refuse to accept into my life.

You should come clean with your actual connection to Reynolds by the way.


I'm out.

 

[Underarrest_]

If she had to make a choice, then why did Brown and Reynolds walk her to the AFP with literally no threat on her job?

And then why did Cash some 2 years later (on a covertly recorded conversation by Brittany) try and bend-over-backwards to keep her in the fold when she found out?

There is this perennial 'feeling' versus 'fact' that I believe is the root cause of the great divide in this thread.

Isn’t it bizarre though how no one who was aware of the situation talked to B after she was walked to the AFP?

 

[Festerz]

What is wrong with you?

That poster is not long returned from a forum wide suspension for trolling and sealioning in the politics threads. Same behaviours resurfacing.

I know it's hard but best to just ignore, don't engage and let mods handle.

 

[campbell]

That poster is not long returned from a forum wide suspension for trolling and sealioning in the politics threads. Same behaviours resurfacing.

Best to do what the rest of us doing with his posts - just ignore, don't engage and let mods handle.

ta.

 

[Kurve]

I'm out.

You're welcome back any time.

 

[jason_recliner]

You didn't answer my question.

In her position, I wouldn't have felt I had a choice and would have left. Absolutely 100%.

Sure, but not everybody will feel the same as you.

 

[FIGJAM]

You should come clean with your actual connection to Reynolds by the way.

What are you inferring here?

I know literally nobody involved in this case and might even struggle on a 'Six Degrees of Separation' challenge.

I'm out.

I've heard that before...

I've given you more than enough of my time and all you do is come back with abuse and bizarre 'anti-rape-victim' inferences towards me and anyone who dare have any opinion that is even mildly different to yours.

When you do come back, leave me the hell out of your rants. Thanks in advance!

 

[Kurve]

Sure, but not everybody will feel the same as you.

Higgins has said she felt she had to make a choice.

 

[FIGJAM]

Isn’t it bizarre though how no one who was aware of the situation talked to B after she was walked to the AFP?

They did though.

It's a furphy of the more extreme version of the maltreatment myth that Higgins was 'just' given an EAP brochure, frogmarched to the AFP and then let the AFP's 'wrap-around' support service do their thing and that the likes of Brown and Reynolds dusted their hands and said "Job done!".

There aren't strong contemporaneous notes from that time (eg. designated 'check in' meetings), but there is other information.

For example, on 19 June 2019 some months after the first AFP meeting, Brown received a text from Higgins “I wanted to say this in person, but I cannot overstate how much I valued your support and advice throughout this period. You've ben absolutely incredible and I'm so appreciative.".

Another in contact with Higgins was Acting Chief of Staff, Dean Carlson, who took over from Brown not long after the AFP introduction. Brown checked in on him about Higgins and expressed no concerns.

Post election 'the band' all went their separate ways and Higgins gave Reynolds a bunch of flowers and thanked her.

I'm sure internal processes are different after this event, but the painting of a completely indifferent environment is not backed up by the evidence.

 

[campbell]

Higgins has said she felt she had to make a choice.

I actually cannot imagine the pain and stress it took for BH to go into work each day.
The shame one feels when r*ped is immense.
To think her callous boss had meetings with her about the rape, in the area the rape occured.