Bryce Gibbs or Trent Cotchin?

[Blacky]

Whenever I hear the 'settle an argument story' I can't help but think its BS

 

[Monkey King]

Early on i thought Gibbs would be the better than Marc Murphy... we all make mistakes ...

Me too. Gibbs always looked like he had more tools than Murphy. My brother called me last night and said he saw Gibbs being questioned by lie-detector on some TV show. When asked if he thought he was being played out of position, Gibbs answered YES. When asked if should be playing midfield, he answered YES again. And I think this has a lot to do with it. He's had his development stymied by playing the safe role down back IMO. When you see him thrown into the middle he can occasionally do things that make you think wow this guy could still be a very good player. He just needs a bit more consistency in his position instead of being thrown all round the ground, and perhaps he can build on those occasional moments and put together a killer game, a killer month, a killer season.

 

[hawka86]

Age Player Of The Year Award : Trent Cotchin
AFL Coaches Association Award : Trent Cotchin
Richmond Best & Fairest : Trent Cotchin
All-Australian : Will see a Trent Cotchin named
Brownlow : Possibly he's a $3.50 equal favourite

Bryce Gibbs Results....
Runner-up in the Cotchin v Gibbs debate

 

[Buddy23#]

Be interesting to see how Malthouse plays Gibbs. Has a good record getting the best out of players. I'd like to see him not play in the defensive 50, kick the ball longer and take a few more risks. Maybe the gap will close a bit next year.

 

[Monkey King]

Be interesting to see how Malthouse plays Gibbs. Has a good record getting the best out of players. I'd like to see him not play in the defensive 50, kick the ball longer and take a few more risks. Maybe the gap will close a bit next year.

Gee I hope the gap closes next year. It's pretty wide atm. I'm hoping Mick recognises the potential for Gibbs to play a bit like Pendles and throws him in the guts and gives him some real physical indicators to step up to. All the talent in the world has Gibbs and Mick might just be the man to extract it from him. Went backwards this season

 

[Bazzar]

A leopard never changes its spots. Bryce is Bryce and will always be Bryce.

 

[Monkey King]

A leopard never changes its spots. Bryce is Bryce and will always be Bryce.

LOL. Gary Ablett's 07' form must have blown your freaking mind then.

Not sure about the comment though. Gibbs went backwards this season. His 09' midfield form was pretty good. The realism of footy is that players can move into new roles and excel. Discounting the very possibility is utterly meh!

 

[TigerTime88]

Gibbs (surprise surprise)

Although potential wise a non-biased supporter should find them pretty even, I think Gibbs will end up better because he has a bigger body and a better marking target.

Skills and footy smarts would be pretty even, with Cotchin a little quicker and perhaps a more natural leader, although reports from CFC say Gibbs is stepping up more and more in that regard.

Gibbs has also produced much more in their careers so far, even if you take out last year to even up the number of years since they were drafted.

Good poll

Lol definition of delusional right there...

 

[Monkey King]

Lol definition of delusional right there...

The guy posted that in February and at that point, it was a reasonably accurate statement.

Do you mind pointing out what was delusional exactly?

 

[Bazzar]

The guy posted that in February and at that point, it was a reasonably accurate statement.

Do you mind pointing out what was delusional exactly?

For starters Cotchin battled achilles issues in his first three years, playing 42 of a possible 66 games, whereas Gibbs played 65 out of 66. Cotchins first full year in 2011 (still without a preseason to his name) was the equal of Gibbs 4th season and Cotchin picked up 15 Brownlow votes (like Gibbs the year before)

This year Cotchins 5th season was the first time in his career he has had a full preseason, and it has clearly showed with all the accolades and awards etc. And he is a mid, not a half back flanker getting easy uncontested ball.

Will be interesting to see if Malthouse moves him to the midfield like Deledio this year, then we will be able to gauge what kind of footballer he is.

 

[Monkey King]

For starters Cotchin battled achilles issues in his first three years, playing 42 of a possible 66 games, whereas Gibbs played 65 out of 66. Cotchins first full year in 2011 (still without a preseason to his name) was the equal of Gibbs 4th season and Cotchin picked up 15 Brownlow votes (like Gibbs the year before)

Yes. And to quote what the poster said back in February "a non-biased supporter should find them pretty even". Still waiting to see where the delusion is with that comment. Certainly durability is not a negative on Gibbs. Back in February the scales were set for a reasonable comparison and the only thing that really stood out with the guy's post was the Gibbs producing "much more" comment, but even that doesn't quality as delusional in my book.

This year Cotchins 5th season was the first time in his career he has had a full preseason, and it has clearly showed with all the accolades and awards etc. And he is a mid, not a half back flanker getting easy uncontested ball.

Again. Back in February this was not a factor for consideration. Where was the delusion? This is my question.

Will be interesting to see if Malthouse moves him to the midfield like Deledio this year, then we will be able to gauge what kind of footballer he is.

Yeah. As has been noted Gibbs believes he was being played out of position. There's been rumours circulating that Gibbs was one of two players who would have requested a trade had Ratten stayed on, for this very reason. There were times this season Gibbs played in the midfield and didn't look anything special. But then towards the end of the season he stepped in again and looked really dangerous at times. Here's hoping Mick brings out his best, because as the poster noted, he has footy smarts and good sized body to be more than he's been so far in his career.

 

[juss]

For starters Cotchin battled achilles issues in his first three years, playing 42 of a possible 66 games, whereas Gibbs played 65 out of 66. Cotchins first full year in 2011 (still without a preseason to his name) was the equal of Gibbs 4th season and Cotchin picked up 15 Brownlow votes (like Gibbs the year before)

This year Cotchins 5th season was the first time in his career he has had a full preseason, and it has clearly showed with all the accolades and awards etc. And he is a mid, not a half back flanker getting easy uncontested ball.

Will be interesting to see if Malthouse moves him to the midfield like Deledio this year, then we will be able to gauge what kind of footballer he is.

He still hasn't had a full preseason. Have a mate at the club and went down to watch a few sessions over the summer, when he was there he was going full on with the other players, but he still didn't do every session. From what I heard though this upcoming preseason he'll do every session.

 

[Bazzar]

He still hasn't had a full preseason. Have a mate at the club and went down to watch a few sessions over the summer, when he was there he was going full on with the other players, but he still didn't do every session. From what I heard though this upcoming preseason he'll do every session.

The untapped potential is massive.

 

[a_shot_on_ehlo]

Lol definition of delusional right there...

Good one champ, until this year Cotchin had been mostly promise, my opinion was based on output to date, and the fact Gibbs hadn't reached his potential yet (same as cotch) but was coming off a higher base.

Clearly Cotchin has come through and delivered almost all he hinted he could, amazing year and a fantastic footballer. At the same time Gibbs has gone backwards a bit.

Cotchin is a better player and prospect than Gibbs right now, and probably always will be.

You can only form opinions on the evidence you have at the time, mine was wrong then, and has subsequently changed (didn't realise I needed to go back and adjust old posts to update my current opinions). While your opinion was correct, congratulations, hindsights a wonderful thing....

But you still support the tigers...

 

[a_shot_on_ehlo]

Yes. And to quote what the poster said back in February "a non-biased supporter should find them pretty even". Still waiting to see where the delusion is with that comment. Certainly durability is not a negative on Gibbs. Back in February the scales were set for a reasonable comparison and the only thing that really stood out with the guy's post was the Gibbs producing "much more" comment, but even that doesn't quality as delusional in my book.



Again. Back in February this was not a factor for consideration. Where was the delusion? This is my question.



Yeah. As has been noted Gibbs believes he was being played out of position. There's been rumours circulating that Gibbs was one of two players who would have requested a trade had Ratten stayed on, for this very reason. There were times this season Gibbs played in the midfield and didn't look anything special. But then towards the end of the season he stepped in again and looked really dangerous at times. Here's hoping Mick brings out his best, because as the poster noted, he has footy smarts and good sized body to be more than he's been so far in his career.

Cheers for the rational defense Monkey, lucky we have you patrolling the main boards

 

[TigerTime88]

Good one champ, until this year Cotchin had been mostly promise, my opinion was based on output to date, and the fact Gibbs hadn't reached his potential yet (same as cotch) but was coming off a higher base.

Clearly Cotchin has come through and delivered almost all he hinted he could, amazing year and a fantastic footballer. At the same time Gibbs has gone backwards a bit.

Cotchin is a better player and prospect than Gibbs right now, and probably always will be.

You can only form opinions on the evidence you have at the time, mine was wrong then, and has subsequently changed (didn't realise I needed to go back and adjust old posts to update my current opinions). While your opinion was correct, congratulations, hindsights a wonderful thing....

But you still support the tigers...

My bad I didn't notice the date posted.

I would be interested in who you think will be the better player now?

And I might support the Tigers but I think we finally have our sh*t together and with guys like Cotchin instead of Gibbs...plenty of upside.

 

[a_shot_on_ehlo]

My bad I didn't notice the date posted.

I would be interested in who you think will be the better player now?

And I might support the Tigers but I think we finally have our sh*t together and with guys like Cotchin instead of Gibbs...plenty of upside.

I think Cotchin is now and will be the better player, he is a serious gun mid. I think Gibbs can improve to be an A-grader though, will interesting to see if MM can push him there.

I agree the Tigers are looking far healthier than I can remember, but having Cotchin rather than Gibbs is nowhere near enough to get a flag. I think the list has great potential but they really need Martin to become consistent and Tyrone to somehow not suck, plus some really strong (and talented) defenders.

I also have my questions about Hardwick, you guys should have made the eight this year. Like the Scotts he is a great media performer, and these days that somehow equates to coaching ability, lots of pressure in 2013 for the Tigers, will be interesting to see how they go

 

[TigerTime88]

I think Cotchin is now and will be the better player, he is a serious gun mid. I think Gibbs can improve to be an A-grader though, will interesting to see if MM can push him there.

I agree the Tigers are looking far healthier than I can remember, but having Cotchin rather than Gibbs is nowhere near enough to get a flag. I think the list has great potential but they really need Martin to become consistent and Tyrone to somehow not suck, plus some really strong (and talented) defenders.

I also have my questions about Hardwick, you guys should have made the eight this year. Like the Scotts he is a great media performer, and these days that somehow equates to coaching ability, lots of pressure in 2013 for the Tigers, will be interesting to see how they go

I agree and I am more talking about recruiting guys that have Cotchins attitude. Gibbs has talent but he is soft and probably lacks heart to be a dominant player imo.

The Vickery comment is off the mark imo. The kid is only 22 and a 200cm beanpole in his fourth year. He managed to kick something like 36 goals last year in his third year. This year he had a interrupted pre season and then tried to carry a shoulder injury. You only have to compare him to the other talls in his draft Kruezer, Cordy and see that he is doing a pretty good job.

 

[a_shot_on_ehlo]

I agree and I am more talking about recruiting guys that have Cotchins attitude. Gibbs has talent but he is soft and probably lacks heart to be a dominant player imo.

The Vickery comment is off the mark imo. The kid is only 22 and a 200cm beanpole in his fourth year. He managed to kick something like 36 goals last year in his third year. This year he had a interrupted pre season and then tried to carry a shoulder injury. You only have to compare him to the other talls in his draft Kruezer, Cordy and see that he is doing a pretty good job.

Maybe a bit harsh, but surely you are not comparing him to Kruezer? Even with kruezer's struggles this year with form and injury, Vickery is not in his league and never has been.

It is pretty stupid when posters call AFL players soft, Gibbs isn't soft, but he is more of an outside player..... could we call Deledio soft? Only difference is Deledio has never been able to defensively shut down anyone, let alone like Goodes/Cornes/Shaw/Akermanis/Goddard

 

[juss]

Maybe a bit harsh, but surely you are not comparing him to Kruezer? Even with kruezer's struggles this year with form and injury, Vickery is not in his league and never has been.

It is pretty stupid when posters call AFL players soft, Gibbs isn't soft, but he is more of an outside player..... could we call Deledio soft? Only difference is Deledio has never been able to defensively shut down anyone, let alone like Goodes/Cornes/Shaw/Akermanis/Goddard

One of Deledio's best ever games was against Goddard, he tagged him out of the game and got about 30 touches himself in a 3 vote performance. I think it was in last year's game vs St Kilda.

The difference between Gibbs and Deledio is this, first of all, Lids doesn't ever shirk a contest, despite being more of an outside player, he still goes in when it's his turn. He lead the league in hardball gets when played there full time a couple of years ago, and he was nominated (or won) that AFL army award thing. He's proven he can win the ball in the midfield regularly and impact over a whole season, Gibbs hasn't. The second difference is that Lids has proven over several seasons that he can consistantly play at a high level both in defence and the midfield. He's been in the AA squad a few times and might just make the team this year. Gibbs has shown promising signs in both roles, but is yet to dominate in either, to the point where even some Carlton supporters are undecided on where his best position is.

That's not to say Gibbs can't or won't ever be a gun midfielder, I'm sure he will, but he lacks the physical presence to reach the levels guys like Cotchin and say Dangerfield will.

 

[benbanjo]

nothing against Gibbs but this thread should be Kruezer+Gibbs v Cotchin

 

[a_shot_on_ehlo]

nothing against Gibbs but this thread should be Kruezer+Gibbs v Cotchin

Would almost pay that, Cotchin is a star, would be taken number two in an AFL wide draft behind Nic Nat

 

[a_shot_on_ehlo]

One of Deledio's best ever games was against Goddard, he tagged him out of the game and got about 30 touches himself in a 3 vote performance. I think it was in last year's game vs St Kilda.

The difference between Gibbs and Deledio is this, first of all, Lids doesn't ever shirk a contest, despite being more of an outside player, he still goes in when it's his turn. He lead the league in hardball gets when played there full time a couple of years ago, and he was nominated (or won) that AFL army award thing. He's proven he can win the ball in the midfield regularly and impact over a whole season, Gibbs hasn't. The second difference is that Lids has proven over several seasons that he can consistantly play at a high level both in defence and the midfield. He's been in the AA squad a few times and might just make the team this year. Gibbs has shown promising signs in both roles, but is yet to dominate in either, to the point where even some Carlton supporters are undecided on where his best position is.

That's not to say Gibbs can't or won't ever be a gun midfielder, I'm sure he will, but he lacks the physical presence to reach the levels guys like Cotchin and say Dangerfield will.

yeah nah... Gibbs usually goes when he has to, like most AFL players keyboard warriors brand as soft, can't call him a hard player though.

Re defending, one good shut down game doesn't make Lids accountable (and in truth he is too good to be worrying about shutting a bloke down) its actually a bit of an indictment on Gibbs that he still gets those jobs, should be an out and out play making mid by now, hopefully MM can get it out of him

 

[WestyBoy89]

If you asked me at the start of the year Gibbs but after this year Cotchin seems to have taken that next step which Gibbs hasn't...

 

[brett15]

I'm sorry but I never saw Gibbs ever being better then Cotchin. The day Trent was recruited most richmond supporters could see he was easily going to be our best player one day, even over Martin and Deledio.

The poll should more be Deledio vs Gibbs, and although this year Deledio has easily steadied himself and become the better more reliable consistent pleyer, Gibbs still has massive potential and Malthouse is probably the right coach to get that out of him.