Buckley, HIrd, Voss

[Collingwood HQ]

No one even gets a look in on the coaching panel unless they played at least 10 AFL games, bit of a boys club of who you know. AFL players must be expert tacticians

 

[robertg22]

Buckley >>> Voss>>>>> Hird

Unless Buckley wins a Premiership he will be seen as a failure at the end of the day. I cant see that happenning in the next 5 years with great young teams such as GWS, Bulldogs and Port Adelaide ahead of them in my estimations in flags in the next 5 years and that does not even take into account Hawthorn, Freo and Sydney.
After that 5 years is over Pendles, Cloke and Swan will be gone and the premiership window may be closed.

We're a pretty young side as it is, so it's hard to see when the premiership window opens (it's not at the moment, clearly) or closes.
Adams, Blair, Crisp, De Goey, Elliott, Fasolo, Frost, Grundy, Langdon, Oxley, Seedsman, Sidebottom, Williams and Witts are all 25 or younger and that's just from the team that played yesterday.

Throw others like Broomhead, Kennedy, Moore, Scharenberg, Freeman, Marsh, Ramsay and Maynard into the mix... plenty of quality youngsters. I think we're well positioned.

 

[MarcusP2]

All gun players, all successful coaches. Make perfect sense why there's an assumption

Tim Watson? Kevin Bartlett? Tony Shaw? Guy McKenna? Darrel Baldock? Lots of players fail as coaches.

 

[yeee_haaaa!!!!!]

We're a pretty young side as it is, so it's hard to see when the premiership window opens (it's not at the moment, clearly) or closes.
Adams, Blair, Crisp, De Goey, Elliott, Fasolo, Frost, Grundy, Langdon, Oxley, Seedsman, Sidebottom, Williams and Witts are all 25 or younger and that's just from the team that played yesterday.

Throw others like Broomhead, Kennedy, Moore, Scharenberg, Freeman, Marsh, Ramsay and Maynard into the mix... plenty of quality youngsters. I think we're well positioned.

ridiculously well positioned for a team that played finals every year from 2006-2013, making at least prelim weekend from 09-12, and would have played finals in 2014 but for injuries. In 5 years as mentioned by an earlier poster, the midfield will be full of stars like scharenberg, de goey, kennedy, adams, broomhead, freeman, crisp all in their prime, being fed by 2 star ruckmen in grundy and witts. Not to mention the veterans in sidebottom and pendlebury still playing their role

 

[blaisee]

Bucks over 60% win loss.

Yep terrible. Lol.

Buckley inherited one of the youngest premiership teams on record, and went and dismantled it, in the hope of one day finding players that may be as good as the premiership players that left.

He has brought the team further down the ladder every year that he has been in charge.

2010 Malthouse 1st
2011 Malthouse 2nd
2012 Buckley 4th
2013 Buckley 6th
2014 Buckley 11th

That has to be in relative terms, the biggest fall, and the worst coaching performance in the league bar none

 

[MarcusP2]

ridiculously well positioned for a team that played finals every year from 2006-2013, making at least prelim weekend from 09-12, and would have played finals in 2014 but for injuries. In 5 years as mentioned by an earlier poster, the midfield will be full of stars like scharenberg, de goey, kennedy, adams, broomhead, freeman, crisp all in their prime, being fed by 2 star ruckmen in grundy and witts. Not to mention the veterans in sidebottom and pendlebury still playing their role

Yes no doubt all those players will become superhuman guns. Collingwood dynasty unstoppable just like 2010.

 

[Whiskers]

Well Hird shouldn't be coach.
Voss was terrible.
Buckley is interesting, he did an apprenticeship but is coaching the wrong team. Polar opposite to Malthouse, it was Mick's team, different coaching styles, shouldn't have been the man to take over and would have been better suited elsewhere.
Eddie was pathetic to let a fairytale get in the way.
Buckley may end up a good coach but Collingwood didn't need to waste all this time turning the list over to suit Bucks.

 

[tigerninja]

Leigh Matthews? Ron Barrasi? Malcolm Blight?

Kevin Bartlett

 

[Prestigerrycomo]

Tim Watson? Kevin Bartlett? Tony Shaw? Guy McKenna? Darrel Baldock? Lots of players fail as coaches.

That's true as well, but that wasn't my point. My point was that there's been plenty of successful players who have been successful coaches, so that rightly or wrongly is the reason it is assumed that gun players will also be gun coaches.

 

[robertg22]

Buckley inherited one of the youngest premiership teams on record, and went and dismantled it, in the hope of one day finding players that may be as good as the premiership players that left.

He has brought the team further down the ladder every year that he has been in charge.

2010 Malthouse 1st
2011 Malthouse 2nd
2012 Buckley 4th
2013 Buckley 6th
2014 Buckley 11th

That has to be in relative terms, the biggest fall, and the worst coaching performance in the league bar none

Let's not ignore the year to date..

2012 Buckley 4th
2013 Buckley 6th
2014 Buckley 11th
2015 Buckley 4th

The worst coaching performance in the league? Ridiculous. We were one game out of the 8 last year with one of the worst injury runs you could hope for.

As for the worst coaching performance in the league, well let's talk about a guy you mentioned in your post:

2013 Malthouse 8th
2014 Malthouse 13th
2015 Malthouse 18th & sacked.

 

[OneEyedHawk]

I'd take either Buckley or Hird over Hardwick any day.

 

[Jesse Custer]

I'd take either Buckley or Hird over Hardwick any day.

Really? That's interesting. Understand Buckley but not Hird.

 

[TW Sherrin]

Buckley inherited one of the youngest premiership teams on record, and went and dismantled it, in the hope of one day finding players that may be as good as the premiership players that left.

He has brought the team further down the ladder every year that he has been in charge.

2010 Malthouse 1st
2011 Malthouse 2nd
2012 Buckley 4th
2013 Buckley 6th
2014 Buckley 11th

That has to be in relative terms, the biggest fall, and the worst coaching performance in the league bar none

if you are ignorant you can make that argument.

 

[Collingwoodity]

Buckley inherited one of the youngest premiership teams on record, and went and dismantled it, in the hope of one day finding players that may be as good as the premiership players that left.

He has brought the team further down the ladder every year that he has been in charge.

2010 Malthouse 1st
2011 Malthouse 2nd
2012 Buckley 4th
2013 Buckley 6th
2014 Buckley 11th

That has to be in relative terms, the biggest fall, and the worst coaching performance in the league bar none

This is not a very well reasoned post.

You have put no context into it at all.

 

[JackoSpades]

Voss did alright he just stuffed up massively at the beginning. Brisbane was getting better at the end of his reign.

Buckley and Hird are both epic fails and I can't wait when their fans turn on them

Lol

 

[PieLebo87]

Buckley inherited one of the youngest premiership teams on record, and went and dismantled it, in the hope of one day finding players that may be as good as the premiership players that left.

He has brought the team further down the ladder every year that he has been in charge.

2010 Malthouse 1st
2011 Malthouse 2nd
2012 Buckley 4th
2013 Buckley 6th
2014 Buckley 11th

That has to be in relative terms, the biggest fall, and the worst coaching performance in the league bar none

This theory is getting tiresome. Can you please come up with something better please.

Richmond have not won a Premiership in over 30 years. See? I can do it as well. Doesn't give much insight.

 

[PieLebo87]

Eddie was pathetic to let a fairytale get in the way.
Buckley may end up a good coach but Collingwood didn't need to waste all this time turning the list over to suit Bucks.

It wasn't done to suit Buckley though. It was done for the betterment of the club in the long-term. We weren't going to win the flag in 2012 and 2013 with the same list. Even going as far back as our Premiership season, the guys that got us there... Josh Fraser, Shane O'Bree, Simon Prestigiacomo, Paul Medhurst, had reached the end. Add to that, Leigh Brown, Ben Johnson, Alan Didak and Darren Jolly who were either in their 30s, or entering it.

I'm very sick and tired of the argument that Buckley didn't need to do a re-build. It was clearly there and needed, even Collingwood supporters see that. If anything, credit to him on how he has handled it all, and the injuries on top of that.

Nathan Buckley has been shown way too little credit with the way he has handled himself pre-changeover and post-changeover with Malthouse, getting rid of Premiership stars, and Collingwood rebuilding as a whole. He deserves a lot more respect from the football public for everything he has managed to do at the Collingwood football club in the last 3-4 years and I couldn't ask for a more astute mind in the game to be in charge of the CFC now and going forward.

 

[HTPunter]

Would hold off on Buckley & Hird.

Buckley also took over a 2010 side that had Didak, Jolly, Johnson, Maxwell, Ball, Brown. Dawes wasn't that good in 2011 either under Mick, nor Wellingham from memory. He had nothing to do with Dale Thomas destroying his ankle, or Ben Reid and Nathan Brown getting season-long injuries, meaning guys like Frost and Keeffe have been more or less thrown to the wolves. Probably man-management or ability to keep players at the club and performing is reasonable to question (Shaw, Lumumba, Beams).

But he's playing the kids - got Crisp, Oxley, Langdon, Grundy, Witts, De Goey, Broomhead, Frost, Gault, Karnezis playing and no doubt Scharenberg will get games too when not injured. Seedsman, Fasolo, Elliott and Williams are not old either. Was playing Thomas and Keeffe too before they met up with Contador. Ben Kennedy is on the list & could be a solid bet 21 player yet. Sidebottom & Pendlebury still in the prime of their careers.

Reckon he's quietly building a list that can challenge in 2017-2018 while Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Cloke, Reid, Goldsack, Toovey and a few other older guys are still good enough to be stars/fulfil their roles.

As for Hird, would like to see him coach a side that doesn't have all this ASADA stuff hanging over its head. Maybe, maybe the list breakdown went too far the wrong way in the off-season (lost Ryder, gained Giles, McKernan, Gwilt, Cooney...still got Winderlich, Fletcher, Chapman on the list). Means they will probably have to sacrifice a bit of depth in the next 2-3 years as they hit the draft pretty heavily, but their club is not alone in that (B.Scott).

I don't necessarily think Hird or Buckley will ever be flag coaches, if I had to choose I'd say Bucks could, but while I think Hird still has a lot to prove - namely forward line entries, ball movement and reactivity to other teams - I wouldn't class either as poor coaches just yet.

 

[HTPunter]

Has it really been that high? Quite a few others have been flops.
Some guys are just so skilled they don't seem to have to learn the hard way like others do. My guess is it is usually those who really to work at it who become the better coaches. Some of those, eg Mathews, also become gun players. Others become good players but not guns (eg Malthouse, Roos). Having had a run as assistant and in the lead job in a state league would also be preferable before taking on AFL head coaching role. Unfortunately state league senior coaches tend not be regarded as "in the system", so get overlooked in place people who have only been AFL assistants.

I reckon that could be a big thing. While other coaches have had their learning curves as assistants or in lower leagues, these 3 guys have all been learning on the job.

Hird - sat in the media until the job was vacated

Voss - was going to WC as an assistant but once the job got vacated he got a senior position straight up

Buckley - was an assistant at Collingwood - but he's played 95% of his career at Collingwood, had a bit of time in the media, went to Collingwood as an assistant coach, then senior coach.

Matthews (Hawthorn -> a.c at Collingwood -> s.c at Collingwood -> Brisbane) and other successful coaches tend to have a varied and thorough experience.

Much easier to make mistakes at VFL level, or realise as an assistant coach your methods aren't working.

Partly why I'm holding off on writing Buckley & Hird off as coaches. Maybe Voss too if he ever gets another senior gig. In my opinion there's still a lot of water to go under the bridge in their careers, and their management, teaching, game styles will be refined (and improved) as they actually learn.

That was the mistake in hiring these guys though imo - the lack of variety in their experience. Not just hiring them.

 

[HTPunter]

Buckley inherited one of the youngest premiership teams on record, and went and dismantled it, in the hope of one day finding players that may be as good as the premiership players that left.

He has brought the team further down the ladder every year that he has been in charge.

2010 Malthouse 1st
2011 Malthouse 2nd
2012 Buckley 4th
2013 Buckley 6th
2014 Buckley 11th

That has to be in relative terms, the biggest fall, and the worst coaching performance in the league bar none

I believe this is very simplistic.

 

[froggy1976]

Buckley inherited one of the youngest premiership teams on record, and went and dismantled it, in the hope of one day finding players that may be as good as the premiership players that left.

He has brought the team further down the ladder every year that he has been in charge.

2010 Malthouse 1st
2011 Malthouse 2nd
2012 Buckley 4th
2013 Buckley 6th
2014 Buckley 11th

That has to be in relative terms, the biggest fall, and the worst coaching performance in the league bar none

So Malthouse started the slide.

 

[robertg22]

Would hold off on Buckley & Hird.

Buckley also took over a 2010 side that had Didak, Jolly, Johnson, Maxwell, Ball, Brown. Dawes wasn't that good in 2011 either under Mick, nor Wellingham from memory. He had nothing to do with Dale Thomas destroying his ankle, or Ben Reid and Nathan Brown getting season-long injuries, meaning guys like Frost and Keeffe have been more or less thrown to the wolves. Probably man-management or ability to keep players at the club and performing is reasonable to question (Shaw, Lumumba, Beams).

But he's playing the kids - got Crisp, Oxley, Langdon, Grundy, Witts, De Goey, Broomhead, Frost, Gault, Karnezis playing and no doubt Scharenberg will get games too when not injured. Seedsman, Fasolo, Elliott and Williams are not old either. Was playing Thomas and Keeffe too before they met up with Contador. Ben Kennedy is on the list & could be a solid bet 21 player yet. Sidebottom & Pendlebury still in the prime of their careers.

Reckon he's quietly building a list that can challenge in 2017-2018 while Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Cloke, Reid, Goldsack, Toovey and a few other older guys are still good enough to be stars/fulfil their roles.

As for Hird, would like to see him coach a side that doesn't have all this ASADA stuff hanging over its head. Maybe, maybe the list breakdown went too far the wrong way in the off-season (lost Ryder, gained Giles, McKernan, Gwilt, Cooney...still got Winderlich, Fletcher, Chapman on the list). Means they will probably have to sacrifice a bit of depth in the next 2-3 years as they hit the draft pretty heavily, but their club is not alone in that (B.Scott).

I don't necessarily think Hird or Buckley will ever be flag coaches, if I had to choose I'd say Bucks could, but while I think Hird still has a lot to prove - namely forward line entries, ball movement and reactivity to other teams - I wouldn't class either as poor coaches just yet.

Great post, well thought out.

 

[MonkeyMagik]

Lets chuck Swanny in the coaches box and see how he goes..

Well at least you know he will bring back the post game esky full of VB.

 

[Leeda]

Hard Ball Van...

Trundles down the road of life but can't whistle dixie...

Too smart for their own good. Hmm.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

And if we beat Geelong no doubt you'll have us winning the flag.

When have I said we will win the flag?