Buddy must not play midfield

[skipjack]

Ok I am sure this will cause some angst, but please at least hear where I am coming from before replying.

Search my posting history and you will find that this is a view I have held for a long time. This is absolutely not a reaction to tonight's games. Nor is it a simple reaction to goals kicked tonight vs usual output.

I understand the theory behind Buddy spending time up the field for short bursts. I also understand the theory that him being upfield more often reduces the double/triple teaming effect.

However. I believe that moving Buddy into the midfield has a two pronged effect.

1. It weakens our forward line. I believe that this is pretty obvious. A forward line with Buddy in it is far more potent than one without.

Do we need to use more than one option to reduce predictability? Yes. That is where the other forward options ( Roughead Gunston etc) come into play.

2. It weakens our midfield. Our midfield group is superb. It, quite frankly, hardly needs improving.

Meanwhile, Buddy has a couple of glaring deficiencies that get shown up when he is on the ball.

A) His tackling is clumsy. Always has been and apparently always will. His size is not conducive to tackling midfielders without giving away frees.

B) He consistently gets found holding the ball. He runs too far. Is it the self belief that he can continue to break through tackle after tackle? Is it the lack of ability to make a quick decision regarding his passing target? I don't know. But he is a free kick against machine.


I love Buddy, but I am also realistic. He had strengths and weaknesses. He needs to be in the forward line. Should he push forward periodically in order to break the defence up? Of course. But whether he starts at FF, HF, the wing or the centre - he needs to be dropping back ASAP.

 

[Hawkers]

I concur. I've always said this.

Why would you take a proven goal-kicker, in his prime, and move him away from his best position?

Defies belief

 

[Baz_hawk]

I'm fine with him going up the ground when he is being kept out of the game by being double/triple teamed. It means the opposition has to rethink their strategy and adjust and also frees up the forward line which will be much stronger this season than last. Gunny and Rough will still make the forward line dangerous.

That said, Buddy is best playing in the forward 50 and does his best work there. If he is having an off game I'm comfortable to see him given a short run up the ground to get into the game.

 

[Roughie]

Its the preseason, relax.

There is no way Franklin would start in the midfield in the regular season. Franko will get the occasional chance to switch in the midfield. But I saw today as the chance for Shoey and Gunston to show what they can do up forward.

Franko will start CHF all year. Occasionally he will move to a wing if Hale rests at FF, but there is no way they'll make him starting on a wing a regular occurrence.

Ill reiterate its the preseason.

 

[skipjack]

Its the preseason, relax.

There is no way Franklin would start in the midfield in the regular season. Franko will get the occasional chance to switch in the midfield. But I saw today as the chance for Shoey and Gunston to show what they can do up forward.

Franko will start CHF all year. Occasionally he will move to a wing if Hale rests at FF, but there is no way they'll make him starting on a wing a regular occurrence.

Ill reiterate its the preseason.

I understand that it is the preseason. As mentioned in the op, I have had this view for a long time.

All mail all preseason has been "increased engine", "more time in the midfield". This has been coming from the Hawks themselves - not just the Herald Sun crew.

I hope you are right, but the preseason message from Hawthorn has been Buddy to play in the midfield.

It's worth discussing. Just saying "it will never happen in the real season" isn't good enough when the message coming from the club themselves is that it may.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I kind of Agree however it gives up some flexability knowing he;s able to play midfield.

 

[Ridingthebumps]

One thing to think about is how we dominated the first game with Buddy up the field and struggled to get any other forward other than Buddy into the game when he went forward vs Richmond. I think in Buddy we could end up with an even better version of Goodes playing for us. We hit up better option we he isn't their and too often go to him when he is outnumbered or out of position. Remember the Essendon game last year, I think Clarko does and is trying to make sure we have lots of game styles for this year

 

[Rioli magic]

Clarkson:

"He's a very, very talented forward for us, so it's not like we're going to take him away from that area of the ground too often."

 

[Rioli2Gunstall]

Agree, too good up forward obviously. While he looks good running through the middle, when he moved forward in the last half he started to dominate. Like last season he should be used in spurts through the middle.

 

[Furn]

I think it's all to do with not wanting to have Roughy Hale and Buddy in the forward line at the same time too often. Buddy going in the middle occasionally makes it easier to do.

 

[Crawfthorn]

Ok I am sure this will cause some angst, but please at least hear where I am coming from before replying.

Search my posting history and you will find that this is a view I have held for a long time. This is absolutely not a reaction to tonight's games. Nor is it a simple reaction to goals kicked tonight vs usual output.

I understand the theory behind Buddy spending time up the field for short bursts. I also understand the theory that him being upfield more often reduces the double/triple teaming effect.

However. I believe that moving Buddy into the midfield has a two pronged effect.

1. It weakens our forward line. I believe that this is pretty obvious. A forward line with Buddy in it is far more potent than one without.

Do we need to use more than one option to reduce predictability? Yes. That is where the other forward options ( Roughead Gunston etc) come into play.

2. It weakens our midfield. Our midfield group is superb. It, quite frankly, hardly needs improving.

Meanwhile, Buddy has a couple of glaring deficiencies that get shown up when he is on the ball.

A) His tackling is clumsy. Always has been and apparently always will. His size is not conducive to tackling midfielders without giving away frees.

B) He consistently gets found holding the ball. He runs too far. Is it the self belief that he can continue to break through tackle after tackle? Is it the lack of ability to make a quick decision regarding his passing target? I don't know. But he is a free kick against machine.


I love Buddy, but I am also realistic. He had strengths and weaknesses. He needs to be in the forward line. Should he push forward periodically in order to break the defence up? Of course. But whether he starts at FF, HF, the wing or the centre - he needs to be dropping back ASAP.

What a ridiculous thread. The coaches let Buddy off the leash in the NAB Cup and suddenly we are compromising our champion midfield?

Get a grip. Seriously, its Feb 17 FFS

 

[lethalselbow]

Relax.

Pre-season is about developing and looking at players, often in other positions. We really need a forward line which isn't just a one trick pony and can function without Buddy, at times. Going to Buddy every time is just too obvious.

 

[skipjack]

No need for the aggression - and no, it wasn't a ridiculous thread. Some of you guys get very touchy on here. Its not me that needs to relax.

Throughout the preseason we have been hearing messages such as
this.

We had the practice match reports on this forum talking of Buddy on the wing / on the ball - a move many posters were very excited about. There was talk of Brownlows!

I have a different view. I wanted to see with my own eyes if anything in his game had changed that would change my mind. I saw nothing last night and hence the thread.

I was glad to hear Clarkos comments this morning.

 

[Jayd19]

I'm not sure we do have a champion midfield.

It is very good sure, but it's just a little bit slow and a little bit one dimensional.

We lack the swan/ablett/Judd type who can win the ball and run away from the stoppage.

Burgoyne, Rioli and buddy need to each play this role in bursts, unless Cyril can become a permanent mid.

 

[Billyc]

Buddy has kicked 90 more goals than any otheR player in the comp over the last four seasons. Come rounds 1 and 2 and against any good side this year we know where he will be playing.

He has spent pee seasons doing alot of midfield endurance work in the past. I doubt his role will change much at all. So relax. He will dominate up forward again this year.

As for the midfield, I have some doubts over our pace. I don't think buddy is going to feature much but guys like rioli smith and savage must.

 

[Henry Jr]

I would go the other way.

Forget how many goals he scores, its how many the TEAM scores.

I thought we as a team, looked far more dangerous structure wise with him the midfield then drifting forward. And by drifting forward, it means he will have a midfield matched up on him rather than a back

Did he get caught a few times - sure. But you don't throw the gameplan out the window after one game.

Don't forget, he won't be playing the whole game there, just bursts like Cyril. By him going into the midfield, it changes the structure up forward and also gives us a chance to rest a midfielder up forward for a few mins, which in turn frees up a spot on the bench for someone else.

I was going to mention that Shoey looked good up forward when Franko was playing midfield, but I didn't in fear that it would get merged into another thread, instead of being in a Shoey thread.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

I'm not sure we do have a champion midfield.

It is very good sure, but it's just a little bit slow and a little bit one dimensional.

We lack the swan/ablett/Judd type who can win the ball and run away from the stoppage.

Burgoyne, Rioli and buddy need to each play this role in bursts, unless Cyril can become a permanent mid.

I am with you Jayd and also HJunior.

Our midfield is slow. As amazing as Mitch Sewell Hodge are, we don't have a game breaker in there.

We looked much more potent with Buddy and Cyril in the middle because they can run the ball away from a stoppage.

West Coast's last flag was built around an unbelievable midfield with an average forward line. I wouldn't mind seeing us stack the midfield with as much talent as possible and see what happens - I have no doubt the goals will come.

Plus the unpredictability factor comes into play. Defenders see Buddy streaming into the F50 from the midfield and start questioning whether they should go to him or stay on their opponent...

Now imagine us with a fit and firing Roughie up forward and Buddy roaming through the midfield.

 

[Henry Jr]

People forget that we have added two new players to the forward line this year.

One called Gunston and the other called Roughead.

Add Hale into the mix starts to make it a bit crowded in there.

Its funny, people have always bagged Clarko for not being proactive with making moves, he finally does and still cops it.

 

[Caj]

I concur. I've always said this.

Why would you take a proven goal-kicker, in his prime, and move him away from his best position?

Defies belief

Its straight out of the Matty Knights playbook and it ended Lloyd's career a couple of seasons too early.

Buddy is a much more dangerous weapon in the forward line

 

[Brown n Gold]

People forget that we have added two new players to the forward line this year.

One called Gunston and the other called Roughead.

Add Hale into the mix starts to make it a bit crowded in there.

Its funny, people have always bagged Clarko for not being proactive with making moves, he finally does and still cops it.

Spot on HJr, Buddy is never going to play 75% game time in the middle, but I can certainly see him starting in there and providing us with line breaking run and piercing kicking from up the ground.. If Rough gets going and Gunston can show his worth we can definitely afford to have buddy kick less goals, 22 touches per game, 65 - 70 goals plus a bucketload of assists and score involvements would do me fine.. particularly if Rough kicks 45 pinch hitting in the ruck, Gunston 35, Rioli 30, Bruest 30, Whitecross 30, Hale, 30, Smith 25, Burgoyne 20, Hodge 20, etc.

 

[STeeLhawk]

Its straight out of the Matty Knights playbook and it ended Lloyd's career a couple of seasons too early.

Buddy is a much more dangerous weapon in the forward line

It also almost won Richo a Brownlow in 2008, at the age of 33. Not that I'm saying we should move Buddy too far from the forward line, but having a player of his freakish ability rotating through will make him that much harder to match up on.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

I wouldn't call our midfield superb.

We looked one paced again last night. Savage, Smith, Bateman and Young all underperformed IMHO.

I think Buddy will play mainly as a forward but with the extra endurance will allow our mids a bit of rest when he rotates there and will also enable him to better break a tag, if he is being shut down by a key defender.

 

[Gunston19]

roughead CHB role and

ozzie buddy poppy
Gunner shoey rioli

(roughly)

just remember shoey was a foward in juniors and back isnt his thing, i rkn build th kid up taking marks kicking goals then we have a 3rd/4th foward target. yes i know if u had gunner,buddy,roughead and shoey the foward line would be a very tall one, but ovb ud have atleast 3 of them in there, thats were rougheads 2011 role comes in play, and also shoey can go back wen hale needs a rest.

 

[Brant]

Playing Buddy on a wing was good in that the other developing forwards got a chance of being noticed (a chance Schoey well took...) & it gave Buddy more experience in being a mid - in other words, it was clever because we used the NAB Cup game for the exact reason it is there - to learn & develop the team for the season proper.

As for moving onto the wing: Buddy isn't ever going to be in the AFL's Top 3 Wingmen; & he willnever likely be out of the AFL's Top 3 Forwards (season by season). That says it all.

His advantage as a Forward is what his pace/size/endurance does to backmen - not to midfielders. Play him as a HFF & he gets to play on a defender that is either smaller/lighter than him or is bigger/slower than him. There he gets to use the advantage & run all day without hurting our structure by us losing our CHF to HBF/Wing.

I really don't think we are in danger of losing Buddy to the Wing.

 

[HAWKS HEROES]

I kind of Agree however it gives up some flexability knowing he;s able to play midfield.

i don't mide our guys learning to do other roles i think it will make us more unpredictable like you said to gives us a bit of flexibility .

is a player goes down we will know someone else can step into that role with not too much problem [hopefully]