Can all Victorian clubs stick together?

[hawks a plenty]

i understand what paul gardiner said was foolish and incorrect, but for all us to rip into each others teams like we are is pathetic. I am not a traditionalist but this is where football started we need a team called melbourne. We need north melbourne and western bulldogs. WHY??? because someone out there supports them thats why. I would hate my team to be relocated or even worse gone.

Yes lets banter about the team having no money thats all good but to say we need to get rid of these teams is unaustralian. what happened to helping the aussie battler.

this is what all intersate teams are wanting, us to fight amongst ourselves while they are getting the big bucks.

Come on I am asking all hawthorn people not to stoop to low levels and say we need to get rid of this team or that team you never no what will lie ahead for us in the future

 

[Cynic]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

It's like when people say they did horrible/perverted things to their friends mothers! It's all just wuv

 

[piesflag07]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

i understand what paul gardiner said was foolish and incorrect, but for all us to rip into each others teams like we are is pathetic. I am not a traditionalist but this is where football started we need a team called melbourne. We need north melbourne and western bulldogs. WHY??? because someone out there supports them thats why. I would hate my team to be relocated or even worse gone.

Yes lets banter about the team having no money thats all good but to say we need to get rid of these teams is unaustralian. what happened to helping the aussie battler.

this is what all intersate teams are wanting, us to fight amongst ourselves while they are getting the big bucks.

Come on I am asking all hawthorn people not to stoop to low levels and say we need to get rid of this team or that team you never no what will lie ahead for us in the future

As you know too well, australia is fast changing from the land of the battler to the land of the bludger. I say get rid of all the pissweak clubs. It's not a matter of the roos supporters not being able to back their club, its just that they wont. No pity whatsoever.

 

[medusala]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

I am not a traditionalist but this is where football started we need a team called melbourne.

No we DONT.

No logic whatsoever to this argument.

 

[thatswhatimtalkinabout]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

........is unaustralian.......

Utter bullshit - you have ten teams who are competing for sponsors and members in a very tight market - they are not only your opposition on the field but your competitors in the marketplace so whilst you share an affiliation, apart from that you are enemies.

Ultimately I didn't see many clubs bending over to help Ian Dicker & Don Scott help us in our time of peril and that helped us more than hurt us.

"What tries to kill you makes you stronger"

 

[Neville Bartos]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

There's still plenty of cash to go around Melbourne. We have an ever-growing population, our economy is booming and we only have 2 other competing sports teams (Storm & Victory). Considering how much everyone loves footy in Melbourne and the fact that we can still pull decent crowds to 4-6 games a weekend shows that we can support 10 teams.

 

[thatswhatimtalkinabout]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

Sorry NevilleBartos (love your name BTW) but unless we are looking at national and international companies to provide the big sponsorship dollars - Tait Timber's $200,000, while greatly appreciated and proudly banged on about at every opportunity - will not even boil the kettle compared to HSBC with a mill and a half or Tassie's with 3 mill.

Those huge companies have an agenda to dominate the Melbourne market but I promise none of them will be sponsoring 10 Melbourne teams to do it.

 

[Hawkk]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

Exactly.

On top of that 17th and 18th licenses will undoubtedly eat into our playing roster.

Are you willing to sacrifice Buddy for the Kangaroos fight?

 

[lickmerocks]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

Everyone needs to stand on their own two feet. If Hawthorn are smart enough to get deals done with Waverley and Tassie then thats is fantastic and smart administration.

Gardner whinging about his clubs plight compared to Hawthorn smacks of jealousy and he should put his dummy back in his mouth.

Why would any Victorian club support a business structure where there competitors are getting hand outs year in year out from the AFL.

When the Hawks were in the gutter mid 90's Dicker called on volunteers to bring the club back from the brink. They then recutited smart business people from all over Australia and then made hard calls on favourite players within the club such as Harford Holland Chick Thompson Rawlings Croad Hay and more recently Everitt who were all earning huge amounts of money and sucking the place dry.

If you are struggling Victorian club and want to get back here is the blue print-
Allign yourself with a region and make it your own through marketing and hard work.
Establish an administration of tough and smart business people who have strong contacts in the commercial sector
Get a young coach that has vision and energy. Old coaches such as Malthouse and Sheedy are almost done in this caper. Also try and ensure your new coach doesnt have past links with the players or administartors as this will cloud his judgement.

 

[Gilbert_Hodge]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

There isn't a need for a team to be called Melbourne. There isn't a team called Perth is there? Anyway this club is part of our competition on and off the field. It's every man for himself.

 

[Mervyn Beasley]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

I wish they were called something else so we can f them off and have 14 teams and play each other twice and have equity and credibility in our so called competition.
Otherwise I stopped reading at the term unaustralian. Freakin hate that term.

 

[hawks a plenty]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

There isn't a need for a team to be called Melbourne. There isn't a team called Perth is there? Anyway this club is part of our competition on and off the field. It's every man for himself.

ignorant!!! was footy ever founded in perth??? NO it was founded in Melbourne then expanded from there. Medusala read this and tell me there is no logic in the arguement. You are telling me we should get rid of a club that has the name of the city where footy was born and where the name of the ground that is the home of footy. Then you are all selfish and names i dont want to say.

and to you thatswhatimtalkingabout since when do we in australia kick a mate down when they are in need obviously if you think this is bullshit your would more than likely back stab your best mate to get to the top because that is unaustralian.

To eveyone else that says no one helped us. yes I agree but since when does 2 wrongs make a right. i dont want another situation like fitzroy where their history has gone and almost forgotten

 

[Mervyn Beasley]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

ignorant!!! was footy ever founded in perth??? NO it was founded in Melbourne then expanded from there. Medusala read this and tell me there is no logic in the arguement. You are telling me we should get rid of a club that has the name of the city where footy was born and where the name of the ground that is the home of footy. Then you are all selfish and names i dont want to say.

and to you thatswhatimtalkingabout since when do we in australia kick a mate down when they are in need obviously if you think this is bullshit your would more than likely back stab your best mate to get to the top because that is unaustralian.

To eveyone else that says no one helped us. yes I agree but since when does 2 wrongs make a right. i dont want another situation like fitzroy where their history has gone and almost forgotten

There's that freakin term again!!!
Do the people from all other countries in the world readily accept stabbing a mate in the back??
Mateship is not exclusive to Australia.
Ya sound like freakin Johnny Howard.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

History is about yesterday.
Why do we have to hang onto a club for history's sake?

AFL = Big Business.
Business is about tomorrow.

 

[hawks a plenty]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

obviously havent travelled then

 

[Gilbert_Hodge]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

ignorant!!! was footy ever founded in perth??? NO it was founded in Melbourne then expanded from there. Medusala read this and tell me there is no logic in the arguement. You are telling me we should get rid of a club that has the name of the city where footy was born and where the name of the ground that is the home of footy. Then you are all selfish and names i dont want to say.

and to you thatswhatimtalkingabout since when do we in australia kick a mate down when they are in need obviously if you think this is bullshit your would more than likely back stab your best mate to get to the top because that is unaustralian.

To eveyone else that says no one helped us. yes I agree but since when does 2 wrongs make a right. i dont want another situation like fitzroy where their history has gone and almost forgotten

I'm not saying we should get rid of a team named Melbourne. I'm just saying that I don't think many people would care if there isn't a team called Melbourne.

And Fitzroy’s history isn't forgotten. Their presence is still felt within the Brisbane Lions. The official name for Brisbane is the Fitzroy Lions Brisbane Bears Football Club (Hence the FFBBC on their jumpers). As is South Melbourne via the Swans.

In the business world it is a company’s main goal to achieve financial success. With one less club it creates more opportunities for clubs to expand and create more revenue.

 

[hawks a plenty]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

so what everyone is saying if we go back in the black again, than we should just accept its A BIG BUSINESS and move.

thats bullcrap!!

I am not saying we should just look in the past but we cant forget it. Its a part of why i love the hawthorn footy club and why my kids will support them and so on.

we are based on the term the family club doesnt sound like some supporters understand what that means.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

Sounds more like you want all the clubs to remain in the league regardless of whetehr they are viable or not, simply because they have 'history'.

96' wasn't just a wake up call for Hawthorn, it was a wake up call for the every club in the AFL.

It's every clubs duty to be able to stand on it's own two feet.
Keeping clubs who can't just because they have history doesn't make any sense.

 

[hawks a plenty]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

I'm not saying we should get rid of a team named Melbourne. I'm just saying that I don't think many people would care if there isn't a team called Melbourne.

And Fitzroy’s history isn't forgotten. Their presence is still felt within the Brisbane Lions. The official name for Brisbane is the Fitzroy Lions Brisbane Bears Football Club (Hence the FFBBC on their jumpers). As is South Melbourne via the Swans.

In the business world it is a company’s main goal to achieve financial success. With one less club it creates more opportunities for clubs to expand and create more revenue.

Thats a fair point but thats by the club not the afl.

Please tell me if i am wrong but if you go by what the afl have said that all finals games played by fitzroy do not go to the brisbane lions history its either that or something like that not sure exactly, thats what i am saying about losing the clubs history. it is great to see the lions putting the old jumper back on.

but my point is that we as supporters shouldnt be saying we need to get rid of this team or that team because it may happen to us again you never no. I want us to perserve the teams in Melbourne. Even for the reason i see my team play in melbourne more times. (not just that by the way)

 

[hawks a plenty]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

Sounds more like you want all the clubs to remain in the league regardless of whetehr they are viable or not, simply because they have 'history'.

96' wasn't just a wake up call for Hawthorn, it was a wake up call for the every club in the AFL.

It's every clubs duty to be able to stand on it's own two feet.
Keeping clubs who can't just because they have history doesn't make any sense.

what makes a team viable??? Money made?? i don't no. that all comes down to the person. I can honestly say if you asked a bulldogs, kangeroos or demons fan they would say they are viable to them. I dont agree with paul gardiner's comments that they dont need to do anything to stay but they do need to try. my personal opinion is each club in the afl has made the afl what it is both as an event and as a business and should be allowed to ask it for money if need be, embarrassing yes but to be put aside no!!

 

[mick]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

hawks a plenty

I am not a traditionalist but this is where football started we need a team called melbourne.

On what basis? Does anyone still cry into their beer at night at the loss of University football club? Hotham and Albert park were also founding members of the VFA, how has their demise adversely affected future generations of fans?

We don't need a Melbourne football club any more than we need to resurrect and re-admit the Albert Park football club.

If Melbourne's time has come and it no longer garners sufficient support from it's members then it can go the way of fellow former champion teams which have long since ceased to being leaders in the sport: Ballarat, Corio Bay and Barwon football clubs.

The argument that Melbourne is entitled to a permanent place in the AFL based on the club's date of inception, irrespective of it's financial state is just as vacuous as arguing the oxymoron that the club should be extinguished to expand the competition.

nevillebartos

There's still plenty of cash to go around Melbourne. We have an ever-growing population, our economy is booming and we only have 2 other competing sports teams (Storm & Victory). Considering how much everyone loves footy in Melbourne and the fact that we can still pull decent crowds to 4-6 games a weekend shows that we can support 10 teams.

I couldn't agree more Nifty,

Victorian attendances, memberships and sponsorship revenue is at an all time high. There is also the cultural sporting influence so prevalent in Victoria which dictate that considerably more household dollars per capita are spent on spectating sport than in any other state. Vics mightn't have the greatest sporting participation rates, but by god we can watch it better than anyone.

There is plenty of room in the market to support 9 metropolitian teams along with the country bumpkins, especially when we generously play four games in Tassie. FFC, MFC and NMFC have also been prepared to play games interstate, in order to satisfy the AFL's percieved need to expand the sports popularity in a Northerly direction.

Even with ridiculous stadium deals and slanted fixturing to benefit the large drawing clubs, all ten Victorian teams made a profit this year without recieving more than the $8.5 million dollar distribution from surplus funds the AFL could have distributed to the clubs. Instead the AFL donates 6 million to the players union, and drip feeds necessitous clubs their own entitlements like some sadistic sweat shop pay master.

Melbourne, the Dogs and Roos history entitles them to respect and the opportunity to survive on thier own merits. Unfortunately the AFL has effectively propagandised the notion that these clubs are a drain on AFL finances, when in fact they account for around a hundred thousand members and more than contribute their share to the AFL's revenue.

This isn't a matter of Non Vic clubs vs Victorian clubs, the issue should be why the AFL claims to need more than $780 million dollars over 5 yrs to effectively run a 16 team competion.

 

[Garibaldi]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

hey! Im someone out there and I support euthanasia.

 

[dutchy12]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

I know the Dees aren't in a great financial position at the moment but you guys make act like were facing extinction in the immediate future. If any club knows how you can turn round a financial position in a short time it is yours, have faith in us, were getting there despite Gardner's comments regarding "handouts" etc.

 

[Hawkk]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

so what everyone is saying if we go back in the black again, than we should just accept its A BIG BUSINESS and move.

thats bullcrap!!

I am not saying we should just look in the past but we cant forget it. Its a part of why i love the hawthorn footy club and why my kids will support them and so on.

we are based on the term the family club doesnt sound like some supporters understand what that means.

If we're not big enough to remain in the AFL as a Victorian based club...then yes, I would accept a situation where we relocate to a viable region large enough for us to become competitive or drop down to the a division more suited to our needs - ie. Div 1, VFL etc.

Carlton for example is a different entirely then the Kangaroos.

We're not talking about situations where viable clubs fall on tough times here, we're talking about clubs that will never have the capacity to compete in the competition.

 

[Hawkk]

Re: can all victorian clubs stick together!!! pls read

I know the Dees aren't in a great financial position at the moment but you guys make act like were facing extinction in the immediate future. If any club knows how you can turn round a financial position in a short time it is yours, have faith in us, were getting there despite Gardner's comments regarding "handouts" etc.

To an extent I agree with this.

Melbourne is a different case to the Kangaroos and Bulldogs in that they have been a 'big club' before therefore they should have sufficient latent support out there to back the club if it falls on tough times.

My qualms is with the system, we'll never know which poor clubs are viable in the long term because they don't have the pressure of the 'sink or swim' approach to be viable.