Society/Culture Can we please stop equating the risk posed by left wing extremists with that of right wing extremists?

[Taylor]

While I could critique every single thing you said above, this stuck out to me:



You mean to say 'prohibitions on hate speech and restricting access to assault weapons'.

Which in the context of the OP regarding the rise of fascist white nationalist mass shooters, maybe you can see why this is a good idea.



Boris Johnson, Donald Trump and Scott Morrison might have something to say about that.

The first act of most tyrannical governments is to disarm their population.

The speech wasn't in relation to hate speech specifically, it was to do with progressive ideas around compelled speech.

 

[Malifice]

The first act of most tyrannical governments is to disarm their population.

And the first act of a civilised society is to resolve disputes without weapons.

Can you honestly look at a place like the USA and wish we were anything like they are with their guns? You want freely available assault weapons, metal detectors at schools, regular mass shootings and a firearm homicide rate through the roof?

Can you honestly sit there and say that the thing that keeps America from falling into tyranny is 'guns' and not 'adherence to the rule of law'?

 

[Malifice]

Firstly - the IRA and their grievance of the past is a false equivalency to that of Al Queda.

You dont think Muslims in the Middle east might have any legitimate grievances against the USA, or other 'Western' colonial and imperial powers?

Outside of Israel and Saudi Arabia, I cant think of a single Middle Eastern nation the USA or UK have not invaded, occupied or bombed over the past century.

Youre swift to blame 'leftists and cultural marxists' for the actions of the Far right wing terrorists. You've already done so in this thread.

Yet you're also asserting no legitimate grievances by Al Queda and Islamist extremists?

 

[Malifice]

It's hilarious that despite the thread title, we already have right wingers coming in to equate right wing terrorism with those on the left (and Islamic terrorism).

They just cant help themselves. When you shine a light on the consequences of far right wing thought, they start pointing elsewhere.

 

[Malifice]

We could really do with less grouping by sexuality, gender, race

You do realise that conservative politics does just this right?

Like, the KKK, Christchurch, Charleston etc etc is all about race identity.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

You dont think Muslims in the Middle east might have any legitimate grievances against the USA, or other 'Western' colonial and imperial powers?

Outside of Israel and Saudi Arabia, I cant think of a single Middle Eastern nation the USA or UK have not invaded, occupied or bombed over the past century.

Youre swift to blame 'leftists and cultural marxists' for the actions of the Far right wing terrorists. You've already done so in this thread.

Yet you're also asserting no legitimate grievances by Al Queda and Islamist extremists?

Hey hey hey settle down - no need for the teeth gnashing.
What I said is that, using your terms - false equivalency - that what happened in Ireland over five centuries is more similar to apartheid South Africa and especially similar to Palestine.
I get that the UK and US have done some bad stuff in the Middle East, in recent times especially Iraq and I acknowledge that they have a legitimate grievance.

What separates me from you, is that my claim is that there's no legitimate grievance to justify mass-murder of innocent people or to make it any less abbhorent. Of course invading the Middle East in Iraq helped fueled Islamic Terrorism.

I'm not saying - leftists are to blame for the rise in right wing extremism - I'm talking about extreme views of the left as in the brand of politics and extreme cases of cancel culture - add that loners forming cliques on the dark corners of the web - you see where I'm going here. 4Chan is very similar to the brainwashing via the internet of would be Islamic Terrorists. And even then they, and people who espuse that brand - YOU - are in part to blame.

And when I talk about blame - I think there's many reasons as to why there's been a rise in Right Wing Extremism. Sort of like the rise of Nazi Germany -many reasons for that - one of the reasons for the rise of right wing extremism is a resistance ANTIFA and it's extreme elements. I make NO APOLOGIES for making that analysis - and I hope you find that quite confronting. You should.

The rise in right wing extremism is something we should be ashamed of, we can continue to aspire for a progressive society - what's holding us back are the extremities of both 'left and right' and you need to come to terms with that.

 

[Taylor]

And the first act of a civilised society is to resolve disputes without weapons.

Can you honestly look at a place like the USA and wish we were anything like they are with their guns? You want freely available assault weapons, metal detectors at schools, regular mass shootings and a firearm homicide rate through the roof?

Can you honestly sit there and say that the thing that keeps America from falling into tyranny is 'guns' and not 'adherence to the rule of law'?

The USA definitely has a massive problem with gang violence, which is where most of the firearm deaths that aren't self inflicted come from.

The self inflicted ones were also addressed in my post.

 

[Taylor]

You do realise that conservative politics does just this right?

Like, the KKK, Christchurch, Charleston etc etc is all about race identity.

I don't think either side of politics is clean when it comes to this, I didn't think either side would be rushing towards it either feeling like they held the moral high ground on it but here we are.

Judged on the content of their character and not the colour of their skin. That his words have been thrown out to keep a group of people feeling marginalised for political gain is disgusting, but here we are.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

You do realise that conservative politics does just this right?

Like, the KKK, Christchurch, Charleston etc etc is all about race identity.

Alt Right not conservatives. FMD!

 

[Eagle Wrath]

It's pretty clear if you watch any news, that BLM and antifa are the biggest threats to society. Unless you like anarchy and destruction of course.

 

[Chief]

Meanwhile the right wing extremists have been using the brand influencers model to radicalise young people into their terrorist ideologies.

By forming networks to repeat messages from supposedly different people, drip-feeding "facts", highlighting social proof to show that these ideas are not that extreme, these people are an increasing influence on society. Google's algorithms eat them up and spit out confused kids (and adults) with hatey ideas.

With YouTube monetisation and Patreon accounts, these "influencers" are reaping financial rewards spreading this sick material.

Forget guerrilla marketing, this is terrorist marketing.

Interesting report I have yet to read:

https://datasociety.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/DS_Alternative_Influence.pdf

New Data & Society report Alternative Influence: Broadcasting the Reactionary Right on YouTubeby Researcher Rebecca Lewis presents data from approximately 65 political influencers across 81 channels to identify the “Alternative Influence Network (AIN)”; an alternative media system that adopts the techniques of brand influencers to build audiences and “sell” them political ideology.

Alternative Influence offers insights into the connection between influence, amplification, monetization, and radicalization at a time when platform companies struggle to handle policies and standards for extremist influencers. The network of scholars, media pundits, and internet celebrities that Lewis identifies leverages YouTube to promote a range of political positions, from mainstream versions of libertarianism and conservatism, all the way to overt white nationalism.

Notably, YouTube is a principal online news source for young people.1 Which is why it is concerning that YouTube, a subsidiary of Google, has become the single most important hub by which an extensive network of far-right influencers profit from broadcasting propaganda to young viewers.

“Social networking between influencers makes it easy for audience members to be incrementally exposed to, and come to trust, ever more extremist political positions,” writes Lewis, who outlines how YouTube incentivizes their behavior. Lewis illustrates common techniques that these far-right influencers use to make money as they cultivate alternative social identities and use production value to increase their appeal as countercultural social underdogs. The report offers a data visualization of this network to show how connected influencers act as a conduit for viewership.

 

[Chief]

It's pretty clear if you watch any news, that BLM and antifa are the biggest threats to society. Unless you like anarchy and destruction of course.

However, try looking at the data and a more accurate picture emerges.

Right wing terrorism is the biggest terrorism danger today.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

However, try looking at the data and a more accurate picture emerges.

Right wing terrorism is the biggest terrorism danger today.

Sounds like your own internet identity here has made it so this is something to gloat about and score browny points rather than actually properly tackle the problem and consider it truly shameful. Almost autistic one could say.

 

[Chief]

Sounds like your own internet identity here has made it so this is something to gloat about and score browny points rather than actually properly tackle the problem and consider it truly shameful. Almost autistic one could say.

I see.

Following the issue is "gloating".

Grow up, mate.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

The intent of the letist or social progressive is social inclusion regardless of race or social status. The intent of the far right is always exclusion and division. Always.

There are nutbags on the left for sure, and not all on the left stay on-message but the far right is always wrong. This is a point that cannot be argued.

 

[Taylor]

The intent of the letist or social progressive is social inclusion regardless of race or social status. The intent of the far right is always exclusion and division. Always.

There are nutbags on the left for sure, and not all on the left stay on-message but the far right is always wrong. This is a point that cannot be argued.

All borders are unnecessary?

To my perspective the left want to empower the people, inconsiderate of the specific individual, to the improvement of the society as a whole. You don't really matter as long as the society works better.
The right wing want to empower the individual and the nation to the exclusion of other concerns first and foremost. Our people matter first.

Collectivism from both ultimately, but one draws the line down their own middle and the other draws the line around their whole group. Both dividing.

From a humanitarian point of view the left wing ideology is far better.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

All borders are unnecessary?

To my perspective the left want to empower the people, inconsiderate of the specific individual, to the improvement of the society as a whole. You don't really matter as long as the society works better.
The right wing want to empower the individual and the nation to the exclusion of other concerns first and foremost. Our people matter first.

Collectivism from both ultimately, but one draws the line down their own middle and the other draws the line around their whole group. Both dividing.

From a humanitarian point of view the left wing ideology is far better.

Yeah, the extremes of both aren't ideal - I believe that like most things, the reality will be found somewhere in the middle ground. Society as a collective is important, but because society is only the sum of its individual parts the individual needs to be recognised as well.

 

[Taylor]

Yeah, the extremes of both aren't ideal - I believe that like most things, the reality will be found somewhere in the middle ground. Society as a collective is important, but because society is only the sum of its individual parts the individual needs to be recognised as well.

I agree, on all counts, and add that I think externally excluding collectivism is hard wired into humans and it's a miracle, probably manufactured, that people share enough of a homogeneous culture across an entire continent to feel enough collective identity to justify a united nation.

But that's also why I think breaking down the groups of people further and further into black/white, black/white/man/woman, black/white/man/woman/straight/gay etc etc for every unique iteration of humanity is dangerously decisive.

Ultimately we all have more in common than we are different. I guess if you were an unelected power in a nation/internationally it would be best for you to have the people fighting between each other than coming together.

Go figure.

 

[ABSOLUTE MADMAN]

When will this be merged into the "hypocrisy of the left part 9000" thread?

 

[Chief]

When will this be merged into the "hypocrisy of the left part 9000" thread?

 

[Engimal v3]

It's hilarious that despite the thread title, we already have right wingers coming in to equate right wing terrorism with those on the left (and Islamic terrorism).

They just cant help themselves. When you shine a light on the consequences of far right wing thought, they start pointing elsewhere.

You should talk to them directly instead of abstractly talking around them like this. I feel like this is a deliberate tactic by you to be inflamatory, and the only outcome of such a post is divisiveness, which contributes nothing. Maybe something to consider.

 

[Taylor]

You should talk to them directly instead of abstractly talking around them like this. I feel like this is a deliberate tactic by you to be inflamatory, and the only outcome of such a post is divisiveness, which contributes nothing. Maybe something to consider.

If you think Nazi's are worth your time trying to save then I don't know what to say to you.


This is the mentality that pushes the two sides further into their corners where the real ghoulish people stay to twist them further.

 

[Engimal v3]

If you think Nazi's are worth your time trying to save then I don't know what to say to you.


This is the mentality that pushes the two sides further into their corners where the real ghoulish people stay to twist them further.

I'm scratching my head over here trying to work out how my post about mockery being a poor education tool morphed into me saving Nazis, but I'm all ears.

 

[Taylor]

I'm scratching my head over here trying to work out how my post about mockery being a poor education tool morphed into me saving Nazis, but I'm all ears.

I was taking it half a step further, a caricature of what you were discussing to reinforce your point.

 

[Engimal v3]

I was taking it half a step further, a caricature of what you were discussing to reinforce your point.

You'd think I'd have learnt how to pick up a joke after a decade on BigFooty, but here we are.