Politics Stop comparing Communism with Neo-Nazism

[Engimal v3]

How Was I proved wrong comprehensively? I referenced a well regarded book with a quote. You disagreed with it. I accept we won't see eye to eye on that one so I moved on to the next.


I have learned a great deal from Marxism as I do not hesitate to admit … The difference between [Marxists] and myself is that I have really put into practice what these peddlers and pen-pushers have timidly begun. The whole of National Socialism is based on it. Look at the workers’ sports clubs, the industrial cells, the mass demonstrations, the propaganda leaflets written specially for the comprehension of the masses: all these new methods of political struggle are essentially Marxist in origin. All I had to do is take over these methods and adapt them to our purpose.[

Hermann Raushning, Hitler Speaks (London: Thornton Butterworth, 1939), p 134.

You were proved wrong when multiple posters showed direct quotes from Hitler shitting on Marxism and were presented with examples of Nazi policy that directly work against key pillars of socialism.

I wouldn't be as nasty as I am if you weren't trying to be such a smartarse earlier. I'm not even a smart bloke - just much, much smarter than you.

 

[LanceRomance]

You were proved wrong with multiple posters showed direct quotes from Hitler shitting on Marxist and were presented with examples of Nazi policy that directly work against key pillars of socialism.

I wouldn't be as nasty as I am if you weren't trying to be such a smartarse earlier. I'm not even a smart bloke - just much, much smarter than you.

You must be smart because you go ad hominem. That's the true marker of intelligence and grace in debate

 

[Engimal v3]

You must be smart because you go ad hominem. That's the true marker of intelligence and grace in debate

It's true - see p.3 of The Very Hungry Caterpillar for evidence

 

[LanceRomance]

It's true - see p.3 of The Very Hungry Caterpillar for evidence

"He started to look for some food"

Seems you are the one relying on random books in libraries.

 

[Engimal v3]

"He started to look for some food"

Seems you are the one relying on random books in libraries.

I certainly ate you up here Lance. I'd say it's pretty accurate.

 

[LanceRomance]

Both marxism and Nazism oppose capitalism

Both marxism and Nazism promoted violence to achieve ends

Both Marx and Hitler with extremely racist - with Hitler building in racism as a powerful tool in his ideology but Marx also thought some races were more superior than others (lile Hitler). And Marx believing that there were weaker classes and races need to make way.

Both Marx and Hitler were anti Semitic with some of Marx's quotes on the matter being very similar to something Hitler would have said. (Marx on the Jewish question)

Hitler used aspects of marxism to promote his ideology (as I referenced in earlier posts)


States based on marxism and Nazism have spiralled in to heavily policed and murderous regimes.


States based on marxism and Nazism had centralised control of media to manage propaganda - see der Strumer and Pravda

 

[LanceRomance]

Engimal v3 guessing you are some form of communist believer?

 

[Engimal v3]

Engimal v3 guessing you are some form of communist believer?

Nope

 

[LanceRomance]

Nope

Never owned a che shirt or poster?

 

[Engimal v3]

Never owned a che shirt or poster?

Nope

 

[LanceRomance]

Nope

Apologies, Just trying to figure out where the high mindedness comes from

 

[Engimal v3]

Apologies, Just trying to figure out where the high mindedness comes from

Because you were wrong and I'm a dickhead

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

It's funny this is even a debate lol

When people think of state owned enterprise and controlled markets, they think communism

When people think of genocide and ethnic cleansing, they think... you guessed it.

Now let's think, what's the real evil here?

 

[sdfc]

Nazism is an abhorrent ideology. Communism is just a case of the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[LanceRomance]

It's funny this is even a debate lol

When people think of state owned enterprise and controlled markets, they think communism

When people think of genocide and ethnic cleansing, they think... you guessed it.

Now let's think, what's the real evil here?

You don't think of Gulags aand the kgb when you think of communism?

 

[ferball]

Both marxism and Nazism oppose capitalism

That's a very surface level reading of it.

Both marxism and Nazism promoted violence to achieve ends

Well so does capitalism now you mention it.

Both Marx and Hitler with extremely racist - with Hitler building in racism as a powerful tool in his ideology but Marx also thought some races were more superior than others (lile Hitler). And Marx believing that there were weaker classes and races need to make way.

Both Marx and Hitler were anti Semitic with some of Marx's quotes on the matter being very similar to something Hitler would have said. (Marx on the Jewish question)

Marx was Jewish wasn't he?

States based on marxism and Nazism have spiralled in to heavily policed and murderous regimes.


States based on marxism and Nazism had centralised control of media to manage propaganda - see der Strumer and Pravda

If there is no mechanism to limit power then a state of any sort will do those things. Its not because of ideology, its because of the limitless power.

Don't forget ferball and Gazza's First Rule of Dictatorship tm.

 

[ferball]

You don't think of Gulags aand the kgb when you think of communism?

Do you think of Extraordinary Rendition and the CIA when you think of Capitalism?

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

You don't think of Gulags aand the kgb when you think of communism?

No

 

[faible]

It's funny this is even a debate lol

When people think of state owned enterprise and controlled markets, they think communism

When people think of genocide and ethnic cleansing, they think... you guessed it.

Now let's think, what's the real evil here?

Quite a few Trump supporters would tell you it’s the former. Dutton would be right at the front of that queue.

 

[barreness]

You don't think of Gulags aand the kgb when you think of communism?

Do you think of black sites and the CIA when you think of capitalism

It's a silly argument, everyone has counterrevolutionaries

edit: sorry repeat argument

 

[barreness]

Both marxism and Nazism oppose capitalism, not true, Nazism required the capitalists of the day. many were allowed to carry on too, much the shame. google companies involved in nazism please

Allianz, Audi, BASF, Bayer, BMW, Chase, Deutchsue Bank. Just at the start of the alphebet, etc

Both marxism and Nazism promoted violence to achieve ends, Yes violent revolution is required, Hitler against the liberals(and a certain few others)to gain power, Marx against the capitalists

Both Marx and Hitler with extremely racist - with Hitler building in racism as a powerful tool in his ideology but Marx also thought some races were more superior than others (lile Hitler). And Marx believing that there were weaker classes and races need to make way. No, Marx was a jew(and a capitalist just quietly), please provide any evidence he was racist. He's got more than one poorly written book so you might be a while.

Both Marx and Hitler were anti Semitic with some of Marx's quotes on the matter being very similar to something Hitler would have said. (Marx on the Jewish question) Please, go on......?

Hitler misused aspects of marxism to promote his ideology (as I referenced in earlier posts). Yes, and we ended up with zyclon B, so please read the source material


States based on marxism and Nazism have spiralled in to heavily policed and murderous regimes. Compare Cuba/Vietnam to the USA(it's kinda based on nazi ish shit so possible fair)


States based on marxism and Nazism had centralised control of media to manage propaganda - see der Strumer and Pravda Jeeez mate we live in a country with most media being controlled by a couple of blokes that agree on business as usual, have you considered that perhaps we are controlled by a small elite.

Sorry this gets conspiratorial but you have to wonder with all these simple folks floating around

 

[spinynorman]

How many people from the aforementioned countries come here for communism?

None

People want to migrate to Australia because it's wealthy. Australia's wealth, much like the United States', comes from a settler colonial project that allowed Europeans to steal the land of an entire continent from its indigenous people and use that land's resources to build enormous wealth for said settler colonialists. That's not an opportunity afforded to the overwhelming majority of countries out there, particularly those such as India who were able to free themselves from colonial rule after much of the land's wealth had been stolen from them.

The reality is not a single wealthy nation has become a Marxist state, so it's not like we can compare the trajectories of, say, a communist Germany and a capitalist France. But we can see that Russia and China went from backwaters to the second economic powerhouses of their day, and while there's a number of factors in that (and obviously this proved unsustainable in the USSR's case), it also shows there's greater complexity to this than you're affording it.

Anyway...

“Not a single problem of the class struggle has ever been solved in history except by violence. When violence is exercised by the working people, by the mass of exploited against the exploiters—then we are for it!”

Lenin

And was he wrong as of 1918?

The primary difference in the 20th century was that an ideological rival to capitalism existed - as ferball pointed out, the United States wouldn't have gone to the moon if not for the Cold War (and undoubtedly it's why that's considered humanity's most profound achievement and we skirt over the equally astonishing "first person in space"). This goes beyond just that though - the greatest progress in improving quality of life occurred over this period, as the eight hour day, leave conditions, minimum wages, child labour laws, unemployment benefits and more were introduced. I'm by no means diminishing the role of organised labour in achieving these results, but there's also something to the fact that capital saw the threat of communism and implemented changes that would make living under capitalism less painful. So no coincidence that since the Soviet Union's decline and collapse in the 1980s that much of the progress on this front has ground to a halt and indeed begun going backwards.

 

[Carringbush2010]

This conversation seems to be going down the path of capitalism being an ideology vs communism.

One reason people migrate to our shores is because of liberalism not capitalism, people migrate to Nordic (socialist) countries not only because of the wealth but because even though socialist they're very liberal.

Neo nazism is far from communism, it is what I'd call 'neo' communism, or hijacked communism. The only similarity being hijacked.

Think a dictator and the constituents are prisoners, i:e Hitler.

Some on here need some more nuance to their thinking of this topic.