Expansion Can't all the codes just get along??

[NimChief]

Can someone explain to me why the AFL feels it needs to take on and wage open warfare on the other football codes in this country??

Can't all the codes co-exist peacefully?? I honestly can't understand the arguing I've seen on this forum between supporters of different codes.

I love Soccer and Union, I'm a Victory member and I watch the soccer in the summer and the aussie rules in the winter. I've also gone to Storm games aswell.

Is it that hard to understand that the public can follow more then one sporting code at a time??

The A-League is a summer league. There is no competition between it and the AFL, and League and Union are hardly a threat either.

The AFL is easily the no.1 sporting league around and lets be honest, nobody else can seriously challenge them for that title.

I understand this is all so we can get more money from broadcast deals, but is it really worth diminishing the quality of the league(by making the playing pool larger), creating another two financial basketcases and by virtue of ultimate expansion destroying our very competitive national sides like the Socceroos and the Wallabies in the process??

The League is about to enter a glory age. Money is plentiful, only one club made a loss last year. We should be using this time to consolidate and fix the many problems that still plague the League instead of burning all our revenue on the creation of far-flung franchises.

 

[Azzballz Deluxe]

Can someone explain to me why the AFL feels it needs to take on and wage open warfare on the other football codes in this country??

Can't all the codes co-exist peacefully?? I honestly can't understand the arguing I've seen on this forum between supporters of different codes.

I love Soccer and Union, I'm a Victory member and I watch the soccer in the summer and the aussie rules in the winter. I've also gone to Storm games aswell.

Is it that hard to understand that the public can follow more then one sporting code at a time??

The A-League is a summer league. There is no competition between it and the AFL, and League and Union are hardly a threat either.

The AFL is easily the no.1 sporting league around and lets be honest, nobody else can seriously challenge them for that title.

I understand this is all so we can get more money from broadcast deals, but is it really worth diminishing the quality of the league(by making the playing pool larger), creating another two financial basketcases and by virtue of ultimate expansion destroying our very competitive national sides like the Socceroos and the Wallabies in the process??

The League is about to enter a glory age. Money is plentiful, only one club made a loss last year. We should be using this time to consolidate and fix the many problems that still plague the League instead of burning all our revenue on the creation of far-flung franchises.

Whats wrong with the league?

Why wouldn't the AFL try to gain a bigger following for our national game?

 

[Diamond Joe]

I understand your sentiment Nimchief. You are clearly a true fan of sports, not merely of a sport.

I suppose that, playing Devil's advocate, one can see why the AFL have the agenda that they do. In a corporate world where not going forward is seen to be going backward, it is incumbent on any custodians of our great game to try to 'expand' (although nowadays I shudder at the word, it originally did have positive connotations) the code.

Where I (and it seems you, too) take issue with this is the manner in which the AFL are going about it. Without even analysing the situation too much, one can see that the current push is purely based on *potential* money, rather than what I might term 'merit'. Tasmania, Canberra and the Northern Territory all have valid claims to want to be the home of an AFL team, and yet the only factor that seems to be considered in such matters resembles a capital S with a long vertical line through the middle.

Being somewhat interested in business and economics myself, I am not necessarily opposed to such rationale, provided it is explained in detail. As Kennett said, this mob (the AFL) can't even put together a basic business plan, and expect the AFL clubs (and fans, for that matter) to support it? Please.

Given the AFL's terrible record on similar matters over the last year or so, I think it is more than reasonable that we should all expect a fair amount of transparency from the AFL on this monumental issue. And yet the best we seem to be able to get is feeds from select 'journalists' and a bumbling side-kick in the one you and I know as 'Gilligan' fronting the 'media' in efforts not unlike those displayed by nervous kids reading out house points at school assembly.

At the end of the day, I don't think it is 'expansion' that is the problem per se, but the manner in which the AFL is going about it.

 

[steve-o]

$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[McCrann]

Can someone explain to me why the AFL feels it needs to take on and wage open warfare on the other football codes in this country??

Can't all the codes co-exist peacefully?? I honestly can't understand the arguing I've seen on this forum between supporters of different codes.

I love Soccer and Union, I'm a Victory member and I watch the soccer in the summer and the aussie rules in the winter. I've also gone to Storm games aswell.

Is it that hard to understand that the public can follow more then one sporting code at a time??

The A-League is a summer league. There is no competition between it and the AFL, and League and Union are hardly a threat either.

The AFL is easily the no.1 sporting league around and lets be honest, nobody else can seriously challenge them for that title.

I understand this is all so we can get more money from broadcast deals, but is it really worth diminishing the quality of the league(by making the playing pool larger), creating another two financial basketcases and by virtue of ultimate expansion destroying our very competitive national sides like the Socceroos and the Wallabies in the process??

The League is about to enter a glory age. Money is plentiful, only one club made a loss last year. We should be using this time to consolidate and fix the many problems that still plague the League instead of burning all our revenue on the creation of far-flung franchises.

Have you heard of a little organisation called FIFA?

If you haven't, I suggest you check out their goals for their sport. One of them is to make Soccer the No. 1 sport in every country in the world.

Where does that leave us, here in Australia? Do we have a sporting organisation that has the resources FIFA can call upon? Not as far as I know - maybe you have some inside knowledge of the Australian sporting landscape you'd like to share with us.

Also, if you're so worried about the AFL wanting to expand, maybe you should ring up the A-League and tell them to forget about putting any new teams into their competition, afterall - its only been going 3 years and they already want 2 more new teams!

AFL hasn't had a new team in over a decade! To my mind, that means they've hardly been doing anything of what you seem to be suggesting over the past several years!

 

[mustapha]

Have you heard of a little organisation called FIFA?

If you haven't, I suggest you check out their goals for their sport. One of them is to make Soccer the No. 1 sport in every country in the world.

Where does that leave us, here in Australia? Do we have a sporting organisation that has the resources FIFA can call upon? Not as far as I know - maybe you have some inside knowledge of the Australian sporting landscape you'd like to share with us.

Also, if you're so worried about the AFL wanting to expand, maybe you should ring up the A-League and tell them to forget about putting any new teams into their competition, afterall - its only been going 3 years and they already want 2 more new teams!

AFL hasn't had a new team in over a decade! To my mind, that means they've hardly been doing anything of what you seem to be suggesting over the past several years!

The A League does currently have only 8 teams though. You can't expect it to continue like that forever.

 

[Hoops]

Can someone explain to me why the AFL feels it needs to take on and wage open warfare on the other football codes in this country??

how is the AFL doing this exactly,

Can't all the codes co-exist peacefully?? I honestly can't understand the arguing I've seen on this forum between supporters of different codes.

then tell the one eyed supporters of different codes to pi$$ off from our forum

I understand this is all so we can get more money from broadcast deals, but is it really worth diminishing the quality of the league(by making the playing pool larger), creating another two financial basketcases and by virtue of ultimate expansion destroying our very competitive national sides like the Socceroos and the Wallabies in the process??

By expanding the League and getting more people intersted in the game at grass roots level ect we are expanding the playing pool not diminishing it.

 

[Subprime]

Yep the AFL is declaring "open warfare" on other codes by promoting Australian Rules in (wait for it, wait for it) Australia. OMG

How shocking, how terrible, how imperialistic and bullying and sabre-rattling, its shocking I'm shocked...

 

[Luc]

Can't all the codes co-exist peacefully??

Sadly, no. Not in the long term.

The issue is not just about people watching all codes, but about juniors playing the game. All codes are competing for the same pool of junior players to play their game and provide elite competition.

What happens to a code if they no longer have juniors coming through? Would the NRL (for example) be as popular if the standard dropped significantly, because other codes are the first preference of the best junior sportsmen? Would you go along to see lower standard matches of a game, when you know that down the road the best athletes are playing exciting, high skilled games?

 

[jackmac7]

The A League does currently have only 8 teams though. You can't expect it to continue like that forever.

But what about the long term future of teams like Perth, Adelaide and Wellington. They will be lucky to survive the next 10-20 years. A-league will always struggle to expand truly.

 

[mustapha]

But what about the long term future of teams like Perth, Adelaide and Wellington. They will be lucky to survive the next 10-20 years. A-league will always struggle to expand truly.

Perth have been a basket case on the field and they have not appeared in the finals yet. Judge then when they have some success and in the years after. What sort of crowds watched the Sydney Swans in 93-94 when they struggled on the field?

Adelaide have got a stable core of support. I believe that they packed out the Adelaide Oval for their game against Sydney.

The crowds for Wellington have been great considering it is the first year of the club and it finshed at the bottom of the table.

Things will only get better with these clubs. The A League crowds have been well above what would have been predicted when the competition started.

 

[3kzisfootball]

As a bicodal fan (ie loves both Australian Football and Association Football....OK 'Soccer' ) I agree with you totally NimChief.

As Diamond Joe eloquently has said the issue is not people like us, which there are a lot of (If you go to the Melbourne Victory forum you get the 'one code nazis' but the majority supports football as well, there are threads for each AFL club).

The issue now is that sport is a business which has to compete for market share of sponsors and associated TV exposure, so the move to get 'new markets' is in earnest for everyone.

I may be happy to watch Carlton in July (well....sort of these days) and Victory in January, but the question for the organisations running the different football codes is how many 'consumers' the codes can deliver to sponsors, especially through TV exposure.

 

[NimChief]

Have you heard of a little organisation called FIFA?

If you haven't, I suggest you check out their goals for their sport. One of them is to make Soccer the No. 1 sport in every country in the world.

Where does that leave us, here in Australia? Do we have a sporting organisation that has the resources FIFA can call upon? Not as far as I know - maybe you have some inside knowledge of the Australian sporting landscape you'd like to share with us.

Also, if you're so worried about the AFL wanting to expand, maybe you should ring up the A-League and tell them to forget about putting any new teams into their competition, afterall - its only been going 3 years and they already want 2 more new teams!

AFL hasn't had a new team in over a decade! To my mind, that means they've hardly been doing anything of what you seem to be suggesting over the past several years!

You reckon?

I don't think Fifa is that interested in a backwater like Australia. They are more interested in China and other Asian nations.

If Fifa was as determined as you make them out to be to make soccer no.1 here, they would've granted a place for Oceania at the World Cup, they would've approved the Premier League's plans to have huge Clubs come out and play here, and they'd be right behind Australia's hopes to host the World Cup in 2018.

It appears we're just jumping at shadows.

 

[NimChief]

how is the AFL doing this exactly,

If they were interested in real expansion, the new teams would've been created in the traditional AFL territories like Tasmania. The fact that an AFL team is being placed in Western Sydney which is Rugby League heartland shows that the AFL intends to fight Rugby League for that territory.

From what I've seen war is what the NRL considers it, aswell as talkback callers and some people in the media. I tend to agree with them.

 

[NimChief]

Sadly, no. Not in the long term.

The issue is not just about people watching all codes, but about juniors playing the game. All codes are competing for the same pool of junior players to play their game and provide elite competition.

What happens to a code if they no longer have juniors coming through? Would the NRL (for example) be as popular if the standard dropped significantly, because other codes are the first preference of the best junior sportsmen? Would you go along to see lower standard matches of a game, when you know that down the road the best athletes are playing exciting, high skilled games?

You're right.

And my opinion is that I don't want that fight over junior athletes to intensify (which is what will happen with the introduciton of these new teams) untill we become one boring mono-code supporting country.

From what it seems, the Western Sydneysiders seem happy playing Rugby League and Soccer. I don't see why we have to interrupt them and trample on the feet of the NRL who I don't think are a threat to the AFL.

 

[Sir_Adrian84]

As a bicodal fan (ie loves both Australian Football and Association Football....OK 'Soccer' ) I agree with you totally NimChief.

As Diamond Joe eloquently has said the issue is not people like us, which there are a lot of (If you go to the Melbourne Victory forum you get the 'one code nazis' but the majority supports football as well, there are threads for each AFL club).

The issue now is that sport is a business which has to compete for market share of sponsors and associated TV exposure, so the move to get 'new markets' is in earnest for everyone.

I may be happy to watch Carlton in July (well....sort of these days) and Victory in January, but the question for the organisations running the different football codes is how many 'consumers' the codes can deliver to sponsors, especially through TV exposure.

That's the most important point. You can support all 4 codes + other sports, but it is what the market has. Soccer may be popular, but MV vs CC on ANZAC Day would be no match for Ess vs Coll. AFL/NRL may be popular but there is no way that they would wnat to go aganisst each other every friday night live in their non-heartlands.

Players are also important, you can only play one sport professionally. Cricket loses players to AFL, while AFL may lose players to soccer and vice versa. Although it is easier for the codes to get along at the lower levels, it is at the professional level that there are problems.

 

[Fitzcray]

I hate soccer.

 

[jackmac7]

You reckon?

I don't think Fifa is that interested in a backwater like Australia. They are more interested in China and other Asian nations.

If Fifa was as determined as you make them out to be to make soccer no.1 here, they would've granted a place for Oceania at the World Cup, they would've approved the Premier League's plans to have huge Clubs come out and play here, and they'd be right behind Australia's hopes to host the World Cup in 2018.

It appears we're just jumping at shadows.

Does that mission statement on Fifa website include america for countries that soccer will be number 1?

America makes fun of soccer on sportscenter ESPN. That would have to be one of the most unrealistic goals i've ever seen. How boring would it be if everyone in the world just played and watched the one sport. We are just as reluctant to accept soccer as america is.

 

[jackmac7]

That's the most important point. You can support all 4 codes + other sports, but it is what the market has. Soccer may be popular, but MV vs CC on ANZAC Day would be no match for Ess vs Coll. AFL/NRL may be popular but there is no way that they would wnat to go aganisst each other every friday night live in their non-heartlands.

Players are also important, you can only play one sport professionally. Cricket loses players to AFL, while AFL may lose players to soccer and vice versa. Although it is easier for the codes to get along at the lower levels, it is at the professional level that there are problems.

But soccer can only share the same success as cricket at an international level. Locally the A-league will never get close to the AFL. I think NRL will eventually play it's season in between the A-League and AFL, a bit like the NFL, MLB and NBA in America. AFL will get 1 billion for next TV rights, how can A-league and NRL counter that, not to mention the crowd attendance difference.

 

[NimChief]

Does that mission statement on Fifa website include america for countries that soccer will be number 1?

Don't ask me. I didn't bring that up.

 

[Diamond Joe]

But soccer can only share the same success as cricket at an international level. Locally the A-league will never get close to the AFL. I think NRL will eventually play it's season in between the A-League and AFL, a bit like the NFL, MLB and NBA in America. AFL will get 1 billion for next TV rights, how can A-league and NRL counter that, not to mention the crowd attendance difference.

Your posts just seem to get dumber and dumber...

The A League is about to wind up its season and... what do you know? Look who is about to begin theirseason...

Where exactly does the NRL fit its season into this time-frame?

 

[Fitzcray]

I'm sick of hearing about soccer and its fans who put most of their support in teams in cities on the other side of the world that field players from anywhere but the city they meant to be representing. It's all very plastic.

Twisted logic if you ask me.

 

[3kzisfootball]

I take the opportunity to comment about this 'AFL expansion' section as a whole using this thread, which title, echoes my sentiment as well.

As a bicodal supporter I like to read 'bigfooty' (don't contrubute that much however). That is because I have the opportunity to read and discuss both soccer and football with people who like me follow both codes.

In the main (apart some exceptions, which always happen in an open access board) the football comments are on the football area and the soccer one in the soccer area, so we can follow our sports in peace.

However this section has given raise to the usual argy-bargy between followers of different codes. A heaven for some WUMs.

The fact is that lots of the discussion is so predictable. As a soccer follower I heard all the arguments against soccer from some AFL fans at nauseaum (boring, not enough scoring, players fall over if you touch them with a feather, A-League is a sub-standard competition, etc.) and the same form soccer fans about Australian Rules (looks like a pack of 8-year-old boys who have had too much red cordial, running around in their Mardi Gras singlets and shorts, fumbling an egg-shaped ball for 3 hours.)

Yawn, really.

The worst cases are the 'codes facists': "My code Über Alles!" people. From the Australian Football camp: 'Soccer is an inferior game, un-Australian, will disappear from our scene after the it stops being a novelty etc.' and from the soccer camp: 'Soccer will become the number 1 game in Australia because of its global popularity, it is unstoppable etc.'

Both arguments are, pardon my expression, bullshit.

Australian Rules football is such a great game that UNESCO should place some sort of world significance heritage staus on it. It is fast, incredibly athletic, skillful (co-ordination of hand and feet) and tactically I love the player on player contests (and the interchanges) which make this game unique.

Soccer is also very skillful. You only have your feet, torso and head to manouvre a round ball around the park. And managing to place that ball into a 24x8 feet goal is quite a feat. Some Australian Football fans think that the difficulty of scoring is a negative, while I think it is a positive, exactly because it is not easy (especially with an off-side rule). Also tactically different formations can change the game entirely.

I always thought that bicodal people are lucky because they get year-round entertainment.

Now some of you may disagree with my opinion, and I don't want to start another 'my game is better than yours' discussion.

Going back on topic, it is inevitable that codes will wrestle for market share (whether that is people attending matches, watching games on TV, or playing the game) like any business would do in a competitive environment.

Considering that sport is competitive by itself, this competition will be even more fierce.

Personally I wouldn't like any code to succumb and diminish or disappear. All of them have a part to contribute to the rich sporting Australian culture.
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[McCrann]

I take the opportunity to comment about this 'AFL expansion' section as a whole using this thread, which title, echoes my sentiment as well.

As a bicodal supporter I like to read 'bigfooty' (don't contrubute that much however). That is because I have the opportunity to read and discuss both soccer and football with people who like me follow both codes.

In the main (apart some exceptions, which always happen in an open access board) the football comments are on the football area and the soccer one in the soccer area, so we can follow our sports in peace.

However this section has given raise to the usual argy-bargy between followers of different codes. A heaven for some WUMs.

The fact is that lots of the discussion is so predictable. As a soccer follower I heard all the arguments against soccer from some AFL fans at nauseaum (boring, not enough scoring, players fall over if you touch them with a feather, A-League is a sub-standard competition, etc.) and the same form soccer fans about Australian Rules (looks like a pack of 8-year-old boys who have had too much red cordial, running around in their Mardi Gras singlets and shorts, fumbling an egg-shaped ball for 3 hours.)

Yawn, really.

The worst cases are the 'codes facists': "My code Über Alles!" people. From the Australian Football camp: 'Soccer is an inferior game, un-Australian, will disappear from our scene after the it stops being a novelty etc.' and from the soccer camp: 'Soccer will become the number 1 game in Australia because of its global popularity, it is unstoppable etc.'

Both arguments are, pardon my expression, bullshit.

Australian Rules football is such a great game that UNESCO should place some sort of world significance heritage staus on it. It is fast, incredibly athletic, skillful (co-ordination of hand and feet) and tactically I love the player on player contests (and the interchanges) which make this game unique.

Soccer is also very skillful. You only have your feet, torso and head to manouvre a round ball around the park. And managing to place that ball into a 24x8 feet goal is quite a feat. Some Australian Football fans think that the difficulty of scoring is a negative, while I think it is a positive, exactly because it is not easy (especially with an off-side rule). Also tactically different formations can change the game entirely.

I always thought that bicodal people are lucky because they get year-round entertainment.

Now some of you may disagree with my opinion, and I don't want to start another 'my game is better than yours' discussion.

Going back on topic, it is inevitable that codes will wrestle for market share (whether that is people attending matches, watching games on TV, or playing the game) like any business would do in a competitive environment.

Considering that sport is competitive by itself, this competition will be even more fierce.

Personally I wouldn't like any code to succumb and diminish or disappear. All of them have a part to contribute to the rich sporting Australian culture.
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I gues the pointy end of the argument is.

Who wins out of Wal-Mart/Coles/Woolworths/Super Big Supermarket and the local corner-store?

That is at the root of the argument.

Even if the corner-store wins that particular battle - there are still plenty of Wal-Marts/Coles'/Woolworths' all over the place.

But, if Wal-Mart/Coles/Woolworths win that particular battle - that corner store is gone forever - it is unique and exists in only one place.

That is the crux of the matter.

I like both sports, but I can tell you - there are many countries around the world I can enjoy my Soccer fix, when it comes to Australian Football - there's really only 1.

That is the point of the matter.

Being No.1 in Australia is absolutely vital and imperative for our native game, being No. 1 here for other sports is far less important.

Its for that reason, that Australian Football must do all it can to be No. 1 in Australia - and if that means setting up teams in new areas that don't have a history of playing the game - then that means the AFL should do just that.

If it can't spread the game nationwide around Australia, then its as a good as a dead duck long-term. I'm talking 40-60 years.

 

[Hoops]

If they were interested in real expansion, the new teams would've been created in the traditional AFL territories like Tasmania.

Thats not expanding thats consolidating.

The fact that an AFL team is being placed in Western Sydney which is Rugby League heartland shows that the AFL intends to fight Rugby League for that territory.

It shows that the AFL wants a larger slice of a huge market. Was it war when the NRL placed a team in Melbourne?

From what I've seen war is what the NRL considers it, aswell as talkback callers and some people in the media. I tend to agree with them.

Are you Roy Masters? It's only considered war to the people who fear the AFL. The AFL just want a pressence in one of the largest markets, I don't think and I persume the AFL don't think that they will ever takeover Western Sydney.