Expansion Can't all the codes just get along??

[Sebastian Balboa]

What a liar that soccer fella is, I knew he was bullshitting when i heard it.

Hasn't he ever heard of Mal Meninga?

http://www.eraofthebiff.com/p-112.html

This is laughable.
Mal Meninga is neither Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander, ie: Indigenous.
His ancestry comes from somewhere in the South Pacific.

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=3916

After my visitors had left, I thought of two former international rugby league captains whom I once assumed were Indigenous, Mal Meninga and Gordon Tallis, but got terribly wrong.

Meninga said in his book, Meninga from Superstar to Super League - The Life and Turmoil of Mal Meninga:
At school I was aware of racists. There were plenty of times I got into fights because of my colour. People thought of me as an Aborigine but I am not an Aborigine, I am a South Sea Islander.

ParraEelsNRL, you have been owned twice in the space of 5 minutes. Quit while you're way behind.

 

[jackmac7]

I noticed an interesting Article in the Age today after the FFA's bid for the 2018 world Cup. "Cup bid needs AFL help to fly"

The World Cup would have to be played during the AFL and NRL seasons but AFL and NRL have preference over stadiums other than Olympic or commonwealth games events. It's some sort of clause or agreement between the AFL, NRL and the major facilities.

So basically the AFL could just say piss off where going to be using these facilities during these months. And that is the only time World cups can be held during those months. I can see Demetriou saying SORRY to the FFA after the next few years of Footy code Wars. The FFA will be on hands and knees to the AFL and NRL.

What do you think of this revelation today?

 

[The Frederick]

I think it would be incredibly selfish of the AFL/NRL to deprive Australia of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to host the greatest sports event in the world.

 

[Azzballz Deluxe]

I think it would be incredibly selfish of the AFL/NRL to deprive Australia of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to host the greatest sports event in the world.

As long as they get a slice of the pie, i'm sure they will play along

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

This is laughable.
Mal Meninga is neither Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander, ie: Indigenous.
His ancestry comes from somewhere in the South Pacific.

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=3916

After my visitors had left, I thought of two former international rugby league captains whom I once assumed were Indigenous, Mal Meninga and Gordon Tallis, but got terribly wrong.

Meninga said in his book, Meninga from Superstar to Super League - The Life and Turmoil of Mal Meninga:
At school I was aware of racists. There were plenty of times I got into fights because of my colour. People thought of me as an Aborigine but I am not an Aborigine, I am a South Sea Islander.

ParraEelsNRL, you have been owned twice in the space of 5 minutes. Quit while you're way behind.

Shit happens.

 

[jackmac7]

I think it would be incredibly selfish of the AFL/NRL to deprive Australia of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to host the greatest sports event in the world.

The AFL will look after their best interest. So they will either say NO or they will say we want Compensation and ask for a fair percentage of profits from the event. But that might not matter if NRL say Go away soccer!

Soccer fans think Demetriou and his boys crack open the champagne every time Australia misses the World Cup. If that's true then Australia hosting the World cup will never happen.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/history/verbatim/stories/s1308909.htm

Arthur Beetson became the first Aboriginal person to captain a major Australian sporting team, was sent from the field on twelve occasions for illegal play, won two premierships with Eastern Suburbs, and played a crucial role in the first ever State of Origin match. After more than fifty years, Arthur still has a genuine love of the game, and continues his association as a national selector and recruitment officer for the Sydney Roosters team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Roosters

The Roosters teams of 1974 and 1975 are considered two of the greatest club sides in history; the lineups included Mark Harris, John Brass, Bill Mullins, Russell Fairfax, Johnny Mayes, John Peard, Ron Coote, Ian Schubert and captain Arthur Beetson

 

[Azzballz Deluxe]

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/history/verbatim/stories/s1308909.htm

Arthur Beetson became the first Aboriginal person to captain a major Australian sporting team, was sent from the field on twelve occasions for illegal play, won two premierships with Eastern Suburbs, and played a crucial role in the first ever State of Origin match. After more than fifty years, Arthur still has a genuine love of the game, and continues his association as a national selector and recruitment officer for the Sydney Roosters team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Roosters

The Roosters teams of 1974 and 1975 are considered two of the greatest club sides in history; the lineups included Mark Harris, John Brass, Bill Mullins, Russell Fairfax, Johnny Mayes, John Peard, Ron Coote, Ian Schubert and captain Arthur Beetson

Dude, it doesnt really matter.

Australian Football is still the indigineous game, all this other shit you're bangin' on about is just a moot point.

 

[vinnie]

The AFL will look after their best interest. So they will either say NO or they will say we want Compensation and ask for a fair percentage of profits from the event. But that might not matter if NRL say Go away soccer!

Soccer fans think Demetriou and his boys crack open the champagne every time Australia misses the World Cup. If that's true then Australia hosting the World cup will never happen.

Do you think after the Australian and State governments are going to throw $30 million at the bid, they're going to allow the VFL to dictate the terms of the whole bid? Do you really think that?

If the VFL plays hardball, it'll pay in every weay you can imagine and it WILL lose the public relations battle. People like me will burn our team memberships in disgust at Aussie rules. Its unaustralian.

 

[Hoops]

It was interesting to see Jade North holding up the trophy for Newcastle at the A-League Grand final.

As captain of the Newcastle Jets, he is the first indigenous Australian ever to captain a championship sporting team, At the sports highest level in a domestic competition.

Thought I would add that bit in for you, because I'm sure a number of Idigenous Australians have captain a preimership side at grass roots level

Didn't Chris Johnson and Andrew Mcleod both indigenous Australians co-captain the winning International rules side in 2005?

Polly Farmer came close in 1967, has never forgiven the umpires for it either.

 

[McCrann]

Do you think after the Australian and State governments are going to throw $30 million at the bid, they're going to allow the VFL to dictate the terms of the whole bid? Do you really think that?

If the VFL plays hardball, it'll pay in every weay you can imagine and it WILL lose the public relations battle. People like me will burn our team memberships in disgust at Aussie rules. Its unaustralian.

UnAustralian!

What crap!

If anything is UnAustralian it is presuming to kick off sporting fields it has built over more than a century, that it has played in winter through this entire time - even the World Wars - ie the MCG, the very sport invented in this country that is the nation's No. 1 sport for a foreign import!

If anything is UnAustralian it is that tremendous arrogance to think that that is the right of the might! Might is right has never to me been a part of the Australian ethos - why should it be now? I thought we were supposed to be a egalitarian nation?

What right does FIFA have to tell us how to structure our domestic sporting scene to further their own interests? None I would say.

If the FIFA really wants to come here and bring their World Cup here, along with all the attendant costs - (how many of you made it to Germany in 2006 anyway?) they should play their World Cup during their season! Which runs from August - February!

What gives a foreign sporting body the right to boss around our local sporting leagues?

Arrogance personified.

 

[Grunty]

UnAustralian!

What crap!


If anything is UnAustralian it is that tremendous arrogance to think that that is the right of the might! Might is right has never to me been a part of the Australian ethos - why should it be now?

I thought we were supposed to be a egalitarian nation?

What right does FIFA have to tell us how to structure our domestic sporting scene to further their own interests? None I would say.


.

We are an egalitarian nation, and if asked whether we would like to host the FIFA World Cup, the vast majority would say yes, if only for the financial benefits it would bring to Australia in job creation and the tourist dollar.

FIFA is not forcing the World Cup on Australia.

On the contrary, Australian local and federal politicians and the Tourism Associations from each state are crawling over each other to get a piece of the multi billion dollar action, with Sydney and Melbourne slogging it out to get the World Cup final.


Kennett backs plan to support 2018 World Cup soccer bid

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23269203-11088,00.html

Sam Edmund and Dave Donaghy
February 25, 2008
HAWTHORN president Jeff Kennett says the AFL needs to bow to the "national interest" and support Australia's bid to host the 2018 soccer World Cup.
The former premier said Aussie rules would have to open up a five-week, mid-winter window for the world's biggest sporting event.
Prime Minister Kevin Rudd yesterday gave the green light for Australia to lodge a World Cup bid.
If successful, it would put soccer on a collision course with the AFL and NRL.
Both leagues would have to be suspended or shifted from major stadiums for five weeks to make way for the tournament, which is held during the European soccer off-season in June-July.
Mr Kennett warned the AFL to expect major disruption.
"The AFL will have to understand that to win the World Cup is in the national interest, and the AFL would have to adjust," he said.
"I have no doubt the AFL would recognise this as an international event of significant importance and would do everything they could to co-operate."
Geelong president Frank Costa agreed.
"If we won the World Cup, every other sporting organisation in this country would have to do their best to accommodate it because that would be a super thing for Australia," Mr Costa said.
"Without having spoken to anybody, I would think it was such an important thing for Australia, for a five-week period the AFL would bend over backwards to relocate games."
AFL chief Andrew Demetriou did not want to comment on the World Cup bid until he knew more about what would be required of the league.
Melbourne and the MCG face the possibility of paying top dollar to host the World Cup final if the extravaganza comes Down Under.
It is understood Football Federation Australia will consider inviting bids from state governments to stage the final.
FFA would likely draw up a list of packages, each including tournament highlights.
The final will top one package, while Socceroos games, semi-finals and the opening game of the tournament could head the others.
State governments would then bid against each other for the packages they wanted.
The strategy would put major events rivals Victoria and NSW in direct competition for the ultimate sporting coup.
Mr Rudd said FFA bosses would meet with senior Australian government officials in the next week to start formalising the bid, which could cost more than $20 million.
"It's time for the soccer World Cup to come to Australia," Mr Rudd said.
FIFA will demand at least 10 stadiums, each with a minimum 40,000 seats.
Victorian Major Event Company chief executive Brendan McClements said the MCG was tailor-made for the final.
"It's a 100,000-capacity stadium which hosts blockbuster events on a regular basis and it's got strong claims to be considered as one of the favourites to host the final if we get to that point," he said.
Australia will compete with England, China and Russia to host the tournament. The winner will be announced in 2011.

 

[jackmac7]

But why would Dematriou allow the World cup unless it benfieted AFL in some way like compensation. For one we don't have the propper stadia in Australia to suit Soccer. FIFA's requirements are at least 10 stadiums of a minimum of 40,000. And FIFA don't want to play on our oval shaped grounds because it looks shit.

 

[The Frederick]

But why would Dematriou allow the World cup unless it benfieted AFL in some way like compensation. For one we don't have the propper stadia in Australia to suit Soccer. FIFA's requirements are at least 10 stadiums of a minimum of 40,000. And FIFA don't want to play on our oval shaped grounds because it looks shit.

... Because he's not a soulless human being who would deny the Australia public a chance to see the greatest sports event in the world because of some petty self interest?

...

Yeah, the World Cup's not coming here.

 

[Tigger Please!]

FIFA will demand at least 10 stadiums, each with a minimum 40,000 seats.

They could nearly have it without using any AFL grounds.

Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane - 52 000
Sydney Football Stadium - 45 000
ANZ Stadium, Sydney - 82 000
New Melbourne Rectangular Stadium - 31 000 (though apparently it can quite easily be extended)
New Adelaide Rectangular Stadium - 45 000
Subiaco Oval (by then the new stadium would be in use) - 42 000

Upgrades to Dairy Farmers Stadium, Townsville (25 000); Canberra Stadium (30 000); Energy Australia Stadium, Newcastle (28 000) and WIN Stadium, Wollongong (25 000).

 

[A Living God]

They could nearly have it without using any AFL grounds.

Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane - 52 000
Sydney Football Stadium - 45 000
ANZ Stadium, Sydney - 82 000
New Melbourne Rectangular Stadium - 31 000 (though apparently it can quite easily be extended)
New Adelaide Rectangular Stadium - 45 000
Subiaco Oval (by then the new stadium would be in use) - 42 000

Upgrades to Dairy Farmers Stadium, Townsville (25 000); Canberra Stadium (30 000); Energy Australia Stadium, Newcastle (28 000) and WIN Stadium, Wollongong (25 000).

The idea of a Rectangular Stadium of that size being built in Adelaide is idiotic, this is absoultely no demand for it. For a new stadium to be built it would be a 50,000 - 60,000 capacity multi - purpose stadium similar to ANZ stadium or the new Perth stadium capable of being used for Aussie Rule, RU, RL, Soccer and Cricket.

It makes even less since to build 50,000 capacity stadiums in places like Townsvilie, Canberra, New Castle and Wollongong. Doing so would amount to nothing less than pissing hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars up the wall

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

After being owned...again:



Shit's happening to you quite a lot here, hey mate?

And RL has the first Aboriginal winning captain of a premiership and the first captain of a major sports team, plus they have the first Aboriginal to play for a major Australian team.

So the rest of you racists can get stuffed.


Over the years, there have been heaps more Aboriginal people play RL than VFL, at least when they played RL, they didn't need to pretend to be White just to get into the team, no, Aboriginals were made captain of their country. .

Typical, Vic 60 years behind Sydney.

 

[randyzany]

Why is this expansion considered "war"? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Is there are law that I haven't heard of that prohibits the AFL from establishing a football club in the Western suburbs of Sydney? The AFL is like any other business seeking new untapped markets and the Sydney's Western suburbs fits the bill. Thugby fans are running scared and labeling it as war because they know their inferior product may not survive the challenge and competition. Nobody in their right mind said that NRL was waging a war on AFL when they set up the Storm in Australian Football's heartland.

 

[Dogs Of War]

It makes even less since to build 50,000 capacity stadiums in places like Townsvilie, Canberra, New Castle and Wollongong. Doing so would amount to nothing less than pissing hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars up the wall

Who says that the seating needs to be permanent? Newcastle needs a 40K stadium. Wollongong and Townsville could support a 30-35K stadium. Canberra already has a 35K stadium. The rest of the seating could be created just for the World Cup Soccer. Part of the bonus of having these sorts of events is that infrastructure is creating/upgraded due to the extra money that comes into the country as a result of hosting these events. I think your just pissed cause it will only be going to stadiums that suit sports you don't like.

 

[Dogs Of War]

Why is this expansion considered "war"? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Is there are law that I haven't heard of that prohibits the AFL from establishing a football club in the Western suburbs of Sydney? The AFL is like any other business seeking new untapped markets and the Sydney's Western suburbs fits the bill. Thugby fans are running scared and labeling it as war because they know their inferior product may not survive the challenge and competition. Nobody in their right mind said that NRL was waging a war on AFL when they set up the Storm in Australian Football's heartland.

Maybe some papers are saying war. I question the AFL's push to these areas. Moreso West Sydney, than the Gold Coast, as the demand is not there. It's not like the Swans are selling out every week.

And as for inferior product. If you code was so great, why hasn't it in the 25years it's been played in Sydney conquered the market yet? The AFL realise that they will reach critical mass soon (meaning there are no other markets to reach out to) due to the cost associated with running a team. While the other codes have lots of areas to move/expand to, and multiple levels to there games. AFL is the only code running scared, they know they will be in huge trouble in 50 years or so if they don't start dominating the other sports so they can't survive right now.

 

[HitEmHardFreo]

And RL has the first Aboriginal winning captain of a premiership

I'll raise you Graham "Polly" Farmer five (5) years ahead of Artie Beatson; oh, and as a premiership-winning coach, I might add.

Graham "Polly" Farmer, Indigenous Australian, was taken from his parents as a toddler and placed in a kids home. He became one of the game's greats.

In 1968, he became captain-coach of West Perth in the then named WANFL (a league equiv. to that of the Sydney-based NSWRL) and subsequently won two premierships with the Cardinals in 1969 and 1971, thereby becoming the first Aboriginal winning captain -- and coach -- of an Australian football (any code) premiership-winning team.

(Prior to this, mid-1950s, Farmer had won six (6) premierships with East Perth, and (1) premiership with Geelong in the VFL in 1963.)

http://www.fullpointsfooty.net/wa_team_of_the_century_-_1st_ruck.htm

Aboriginal premiership-winning coaches in football:
1st: 1969: Graham Farmer, West Perth, WAFL

Aboriginal premiership-winning captains in football:
1st: 1969: Graham Farmer, West Perth, WAFL
2nd: 1969: Graham Farmer, West Perth, WAFL
3rd: 1974: Artie Beetson, Eastern Suburbs, NSWRL
4th: 1975: Artie Beetson, Eastern Suburbs, NSWRL
4th: 1975: Bill Dempsey, West Perth, WAFL

And if you want to talk Indigenous Australian football premiership players, research is your friend.

Here's three at the turn of the 20th Century:

1901, Jimmy Melbourne, West Perth, WAFL
1904, Joe Johnson, Fiztroy, VFL
1905, Joe Johnson, Fitzroy, VFL

Have a gander at this, if you dare:
http://www.aboriginalfootball.com.au/grandfinals.html

plus they have the first Aboriginal to play for a major Australian team.

By what measure "major"?

Polly Farmer played in the 1968 tour of the Australian team that played a series of hybrid games against several Irish sides overseas. Again, several years before Beetson.

That team consisted of players from Vic, SA, Tas, WA, NSW. By that measure, that's major. An Australian football team is an Australian football team. Green and Gold!

So the rest of you racists can get stuffed.

*cough* Cronulla *cough* NRL heartland

Yeah, I'd stick that racism charge right where the sun shines when you need a little cash!

The AFL has been the most progressive league body in Australia in implementing proactive measures to improve the lot of Indigenous Australians, on and off the field.

In a pure sporting sense, there's the Dreamtime at the G, the Indigenous Round and of course the bi-annual AFL Indigenous All-Stars vs. (insert AFL club) games (like an Indigenous "Pro-Bowl").

In this respect, the AFL has left the NRL in its dust on this front.

Over the years, there have been heaps more Aboriginal people play RL than VFL, at least when they played RL, they didn't need to pretend to be White just to get into the team, no, Aboriginals were made captain of their country. .

Typical, Vic 60 years behind Sydney.

Names, leagues, years ... anything? Or just another blind assertion?

Now, by "RL", are you suggesting the highest level. If so, that would be the QRL's Qld Cup, and the NSWRL, and the ... oh that was it, wasn't it?

Indigenous Australian rules footballers down the years...

Just a few names in the WAFL:
http://aboriginalfootball.com.au/wafl.html

Fairest and Bests in the NTFL:
http://www.aboriginalfootball.com.au/ntfl.html

A few more premiership and medal winners from SA:
http://www.aboriginalfootball.com.au/sanfl.html

Some more in the VFL which morphed into the AFL:
http://www.aboriginalfootball.com.au/afl-players.html

And that's discounting Tasmania (because Aboriginals still do live there, you know) for which I couldn't find anything on the net.

Beautiful, isn't it?

 

[Beaussie]

Maybe some papers are saying war. I question the AFL's push to these areas. Moreso West Sydney, than the Gold Coast, as the demand is not there. It's not like the Swans are selling out every week.

The Swans averaged 63,000 at their three games at ANZ stadium last year and every SCG game in 2007 was sold out.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23275340-5006065,00.html

 

[finders]

To all the bleading hearts out there that want us all to love one another .

This is about very big sporting business with millions of dollars at stake as the old Jewish saying goes "business is WAR" and you take no prisoners.

 

[Chuq]

I'm sick of hearing about soccer and its fans who put most of their support in teams in cities on the other side of the world that field players from anywhere but the city they meant to be representing. It's all very plastic.

Twisted logic if you ask me.

Plastic? So people who support Carlton, Essendon, Richmond, but don't actually live in those suburbs - that's also plastic is it?

As long as they get a slice of the pie, i'm sure they will play along

NRL will get a stack of world-class stadiums. I don't think they'll complain.

AFL has publically stated they will co-operate with FFA on a WC bid. Their only real chance at "getting" new stadiums would be multi-purpose (convertible shape) stadiums in Perth and Adelaide (Stadium WA is happening anyway, and Adelaide's stadium situation is up in the air). Some club training grounds may get upgrades.

UnAustralian!

What crap!

If anything is UnAustralian it is presuming to kick off sporting fields it has built over more than a century, that it has played in winter through this entire time - even the World Wars - ie the MCG, the very sport invented in this country that is the nation's No. 1 sport for a foreign import!

If anything is UnAustralian it is that tremendous arrogance to think that that is the right of the might! Might is right has never to me been a part of the Australian ethos - why should it be now? I thought we were supposed to be a egalitarian nation?

You know what I think is unAustralian? Not wanting Australia to be the best at the biggest sport in the world, and not wanting Australia to host the biggest sporting event in the world.

If the FIFA really wants to come here and bring their World Cup here, along with all the attendant costs - (how many of you made it to Germany in 2006 anyway?) they should play their World Cup during their season! Which runs from August - February!

Yes, great idea, lets interrupt 100+ other football leagues worldwide, just so AFL doesn't have to take a 5 week break.

What right does FIFA have to tell us how to structure our domestic sporting scene to further their own interests? None I would say.

What gives a foreign sporting body the right to boss around our local sporting leagues?

Arrogance personified.

It isn't FIFA forcing the WC on us. We (as in the FFA, the state and federal governments, and 90% of the people of Australia) are REQUESTING it to come here. There is massive public support for it.

Arrogance personified indeed. Taken a look in a mirror lately?

I bet there are more people in Australia who dread the AFL season starting EVERY YEAR, than people in Australia who dread the World Cup coming here JUST ONCE.

 

[Grunty]

It isn't FIFA forcing the WC on us. We (as in the FFA, the state and federal governments, and 90% of the people of Australia) are REQUESTING it to come here. There is massive public support for it.


.

Correct.

The local and federal pollies and the tourism associations in every state are salivating at the possibility of attracting millions of extra tourists to their states and cities, together with the billions of tourist dollars they will bring with them.

So much so that they are all in a frantic scramble offering to build or upgrade rectangular stadiums all over the place, so that they can get their share of the FIFA pot of gold, the World Cup 2018.

Then there's the additional bonus of being able to showcase Sydney, Melbourne or the Gold Coast to a worldwide TV audience in the billions.

This is priceless promotion for our cities.

The cumulative TV audience for the last World Cup in Germany 2006 was something like 28 billion. ( About 4 times the world's population).

With a TV audience like that, you can understand why they all want to be a part of it.