Flirting with Danger. ODN
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Captaincy, Leadership & Marc Murphy
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fnm_just a man
Cancelled
I think Gibbs would be good, but whether he would be or not, that doesn't solve the issue ... It's not an individual's responsibility. We need several....Perhaps a better skipper would bring about better leadership generally .. That's a hard one to assess, although I certainly believe a Hodge/Selwood would have that effect (they're two of the all-time great leaders though) .... However, if nothing improves over the course of the year, I think drastic measures should be taken to address it ... And I'm talking making trades that might come across as typical Carlton 'quick-fix', 'stop-gap' but with the sole purpose of addressing this issue, and then worry about bringing in quality youngsters once the leadership issue is settled. Would be unpopular for sure, but for mine, it's the safer long-term route.
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- #53
If Gibbs was named captain to replace Murphy, I reckon it would be like putting in a body-double, more of the same.
fnm_just a man
Cancelled
Possibly, though Gibbs actually comes across as quite a confident guy to me. My feeling is that he has the potential to thrive in the role, but you couldn't say he demands it like those quality captains in the comp did from a young age.
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- #55
Sorry, I just couldn't see the players rallying behind a guy who wears hairbands or pigtails.
fnm_just a man
Cancelled
Either way, the issue is bigger than one guy.
And A four year contract.
thats the crux of it, we dont have anyone better regardless of him being good or bad at it. He then plays poorly and it magnifies.
Would hope to see a Cripps become captain. Kid has the harder edge leaders in AFL are commonly known for.
Head is vomitous
thylacine60
Post-Human
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- #61
I'll take a dozen.
He is not a good captain.
He does not want to be captain.
People don't respect him as the captain.
We don't even have a captain.
If you think team performance isn't hindered by this you have got to be kidding yourself.
And to those saying look who is around him. Well it is HIS job to get those around him playing for and with him!
But I digress, we don't have better and we must stick with him for now.
I hope things turn around because this leadership, or lack of, is killing us.
He does not want to be captain.
People don't respect him as the captain.
We don't even have a captain.
If you think team performance isn't hindered by this you have got to be kidding yourself.
And to those saying look who is around him. Well it is HIS job to get those around him playing for and with him!
But I digress, we don't have better and we must stick with him for now.
I hope things turn around because this leadership, or lack of, is killing us.
Murphy has hardly played a good game since he was captain.
Best was in the 1 point win against Power in the last round to take us into the finals
fnm_just a man
Cancelled
Do we wait and risk him taking the same path that pretty much all our draftees have taken in the last 10-15 years though? I agree, he seems to have an edge - not as ridiculously obvious as Hodge/Selwood - but I also believe that our current lack of leaders risks dragging him down the same path, where he doesn't come on and/or where he loses that edge .... This is why I'd prefer to bring in mature, proven outsiders...... We need to do as much as we can to ensure our youngsters (current & future) deliver to their full potential, in order to avoid this discussion continuing in 5 years time.
- Feb 11, 2015
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Practically the whole leadership group was hopeless on Thursday night. Murphy, Gibbs, Jamison and Henderson were more worried about how the rest of the team was going rather than their own games. Rowe done the most out of the 5.
It was Docherty, Bell, White, Curnow and Menzel that happened to show more.
Simpson and Judd also showed they could still be great leaders.
I don't know. Murphy keeps defending himself and saying that he can lift the team up. It's all talk, no action. Plus it doesn't seem that anybody else is helping him. They are just defending his position as skipper. Gibbs would be pretty much the same.
I reckon Simpson should have gotten the captaincy role when he was open for it.
Later down the track, the baton should be passed to Cripps or Docherty.
It was Docherty, Bell, White, Curnow and Menzel that happened to show more.
Simpson and Judd also showed they could still be great leaders.
I don't know. Murphy keeps defending himself and saying that he can lift the team up. It's all talk, no action. Plus it doesn't seem that anybody else is helping him. They are just defending his position as skipper. Gibbs would be pretty much the same.
I reckon Simpson should have gotten the captaincy role when he was open for it.
Later down the track, the baton should be passed to Cripps or Docherty.
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Foster any chance....
Jatz
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Your last point comes down to more than Murphy. Where are our other leaders? Our leadership group was useless on Thursday.
Its not even just the leadership group. Who are the senior players that stand up regardless, outside of Judd? Simpson? Doesn't impact the game as he once did. Nor does Carazzo. This is as big an issue as the captaincy for me.
Love murphy as he is as fair a player as anyone in the comp, but he lacks mongrel,voice and agression all good traits as leader of a footy club. He is meek, uninspiring and should not be at centre bounces... Maybe if he runs in of the wing for the release handball ha could get back to something like his best, think his best footy has already been played as danger broke hum physically
Agree with the thrust of the thread, but as others have stated numerous times there is literally no other option. Players who would be suitable are too old and won't be around in 2-3 years. Whats more troubling is I can't really see anyone from the younger bracket who is an obvious candidate, not good.
But that's kinda the point, with current lists he would be no where near the captain of either of those sides, maybe not even leadership group. Again, thats not a knock on him, great player (or was) but just not a leader of men.
But that's kinda the point, with current lists he would be no where near the captain of either of those sides, maybe not even leadership group. Again, thats not a knock on him, great player (or was) but just not a leader of men.
I understand where people are coming from in this thread. The TL;DR version of this post is that I agree Murphy isn't a great captain and leader. Very good player, but not the leader we all hope he can be. He's had the gig a while now, and at least from the outside, it doesn't look like much has changed. For better or for worse, he is the captain and should stay captain until this team goes to its next 'phase', if you will.
Personally, these are the traits I like to see in a captain/leader:
1. Leading by example. Even though I am listing it first, this isn't necessarily the most important aspect of a leader. But, unless you do this, you can't win the respect you need to adequately discharge the rest of your duties. Does Murph lead by example? I think so. He gets belted around and has gone in hard plenty of times before when it has ended in injury to him. He runs all day and puts in. You could probably name a few guys who did it harder, longer and/or more consistently than Murphy, but he does it nonetheless.
2. Vocal. The leader of the club is there to lead. This is equally as important as leading by example and doing the hard yard themselves, but it can only come if they are leading by example. Everyone has probably met 'that person' at work or in social situations... you know, the guy/girl who seems to always be telling everyone how to do things or what they should be doing, yet you rarely notice them working away hard at something? You can't have that person as the captain. Equally, you can't have someone who goes about their business without demanding, instructing and communicating with their team as a captain. It's vital that the leader tells their people what they need to do. Is Murphy adequately vocal? I don't think so. We see him address the players in huddles, but we often see others doing it too. I don't want to diminish the importance of other leadership personnel and their role in that, but when it's all on the line, I get the impression that Murphy isn't necessarily the guy you want barking at you.
3. A mean streak. Some might disagree, but the captain should be someone you don't want to cross. Not because they are bigger and tougher (though that helps) or because they wield some sort of power over you, but because they're a little intimidating. That can be from the way they carry themselves, the strengths of their convictions or just a genuine competitiveness and never-shy-away attitude that comes with someone who is willing to ruffle feathers when they need to, no matter who the feathers belong to. Your leader should be someone you can expect to come down on you hard if you aren't doing the right thing. Is Murphy the sort of guy to give someone a bake when they need it, and actually carry weight with his words? I'm not so sure. Carrazzo is certainly that type - people talk about him and a few others who are very direct, don't accept mediocrity and carry themselves with the air of leadership that they should. I don't really see that in Murphy.
4. Personable. You can still be the most intimidating person someone has ever met, yet still be very personable. I have worked with a number of guys (and girls too) who I would never want to cross, yet would never be afraid to speak to them, get involved in whatever they are doing or be mates with. The captain and leader of your club has to be someone you actually want to follow and someone who has that sort of gravity about them that draws people in and makes them want to work for you. I get the feeling Murphy ticks this box and is a very likeable guy within the club. Again, it can be hard to tell from the outside, but sometimes I wonder whether he can do the 'relationship' thing with others but can't do the lay-the-law-down thing.
The good news IMO is that we have a few young blokes who do tick all these boxes. Guys like Docherty (who is a very intelligent speaker too), Cripps and maybe even Buckley are all future captain material at the moment. Other posters might be able to suggest more, too. Unfortunately for Henderson, I think Murphy will stay captain for the sake of stability until he retires or hands it down after several years, which will not leave Henderson in an ideal place to take it up.
Personally, these are the traits I like to see in a captain/leader:
1. Leading by example. Even though I am listing it first, this isn't necessarily the most important aspect of a leader. But, unless you do this, you can't win the respect you need to adequately discharge the rest of your duties. Does Murph lead by example? I think so. He gets belted around and has gone in hard plenty of times before when it has ended in injury to him. He runs all day and puts in. You could probably name a few guys who did it harder, longer and/or more consistently than Murphy, but he does it nonetheless.
2. Vocal. The leader of the club is there to lead. This is equally as important as leading by example and doing the hard yard themselves, but it can only come if they are leading by example. Everyone has probably met 'that person' at work or in social situations... you know, the guy/girl who seems to always be telling everyone how to do things or what they should be doing, yet you rarely notice them working away hard at something? You can't have that person as the captain. Equally, you can't have someone who goes about their business without demanding, instructing and communicating with their team as a captain. It's vital that the leader tells their people what they need to do. Is Murphy adequately vocal? I don't think so. We see him address the players in huddles, but we often see others doing it too. I don't want to diminish the importance of other leadership personnel and their role in that, but when it's all on the line, I get the impression that Murphy isn't necessarily the guy you want barking at you.
3. A mean streak. Some might disagree, but the captain should be someone you don't want to cross. Not because they are bigger and tougher (though that helps) or because they wield some sort of power over you, but because they're a little intimidating. That can be from the way they carry themselves, the strengths of their convictions or just a genuine competitiveness and never-shy-away attitude that comes with someone who is willing to ruffle feathers when they need to, no matter who the feathers belong to. Your leader should be someone you can expect to come down on you hard if you aren't doing the right thing. Is Murphy the sort of guy to give someone a bake when they need it, and actually carry weight with his words? I'm not so sure. Carrazzo is certainly that type - people talk about him and a few others who are very direct, don't accept mediocrity and carry themselves with the air of leadership that they should. I don't really see that in Murphy.
4. Personable. You can still be the most intimidating person someone has ever met, yet still be very personable. I have worked with a number of guys (and girls too) who I would never want to cross, yet would never be afraid to speak to them, get involved in whatever they are doing or be mates with. The captain and leader of your club has to be someone you actually want to follow and someone who has that sort of gravity about them that draws people in and makes them want to work for you. I get the feeling Murphy ticks this box and is a very likeable guy within the club. Again, it can be hard to tell from the outside, but sometimes I wonder whether he can do the 'relationship' thing with others but can't do the lay-the-law-down thing.
The good news IMO is that we have a few young blokes who do tick all these boxes. Guys like Docherty (who is a very intelligent speaker too), Cripps and maybe even Buckley are all future captain material at the moment. Other posters might be able to suggest more, too. Unfortunately for Henderson, I think Murphy will stay captain for the sake of stability until he retires or hands it down after several years, which will not leave Henderson in an ideal place to take it up.
I love him too, he's pretty easily our second best player, but he's not as fair as anyone. He's a diver. Not just your average diver, he's nearly as bad as Boomer Harvey. He is tough, in that he's a small bloke that cracks in as hard as he can...but he's a small bloke and he's not REALLY strong or ultra aggressive at the man. Your Hodge's and Selwood's have big strong body's and they can lead that way, but Murph is a gut runner and a great user of the ball. Unfortunately fans don't recognise gut running as all that inspiring (even though it's one of the harder things to do well on a footy ground) so along come threads like this. He's also had a couple of years with pretty serious injuries which has taken away his ability to use his biggest weapon (gut running). Give him 2 or 3 weeks to make up for the time he lost with his calf and he'll hopefully be back to what he was a few years ago.
As a leader, you can only do what you do well...not do what other captain's do well, so comparing him to others is just stupidity. He leads his way.
fnm_just a man
Cancelled
Pretty much the purpose of this discussion. He might be doing his best, but it's not cutting it.
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