Captaincy, Leadership & Marc Murphy

[MrsEddieBetts]

Everyone saying no one from our leadership group stood up on Thursday--Jammo at least tried. On more than one occasion he called all of the men on his line together and gave them a good talking to.

 

[fnm_just a man]

I understand where people are coming from in this thread. The TL;DR version of this post is that I agree Murphy isn't a great captain and leader. Very good player, but not the leader we all hope he can be. He's had the gig a while now, and at least from the outside, it doesn't look like much has changed. For better or for worse, he is the captain and should stay captain until this team goes to its next 'phase', if you will.

What does this mean? ... I think if things stay as they are, we need to force this into the next phase.

If nothing changes over the course of the year from a leadership perspective and our performances are lacklustre, I don't think Murph can be captain in 2016... What that means for his career at Carlton, I don't know ... But it would probably mean we lose him. It's uncomfortable to talk about it in a sense, bc we all like him, but a bold decision will be required ....

 

[ShanDog]

What does this mean? ... I think if things stay as they are, we need to force this into the next phase.

If nothing changes over the course of the year from a leadership perspective and our performances are lacklustre, I don't think Murph can be captain in 2016... What that means for his career at Carlton, I don't know ... But it would probably mean we lose him. It's uncomfortable to talk about it in a sense, bc we all like him, but a bold decision will be required ....

Unless the clubs opts for a firesale (everything must go) approach to rebuilding and trade out guys at their best price, Murphy won't be going anywhere. Well, it's highly unlikely he will anyway.

I reckon either Murphy will be 30 and will hand it over to someone else, or it will be taken off him if/when the club looks like a genuine flag chance from about 2017 onwards. Basically, I would rather see him hand the baton on to someone appropriate at the appropriate time, rather than just giving him the arse. He isn't a terrible captain, he just isn't ideal. We don't have anyone on the list better suited to long term captain right now.

 

[fnm_just a man]

Unless the clubs opts for a firesale (everything must go) approach to rebuilding and trade out guys at their best price, Murphy won't be going anywhere. Well, it's highly unlikely he will anyway.

I reckon either Murphy will be 30 and will hand it over to someone else, or it will be taken off him if/when the club looks like a genuine flag chance from about 2017 onwards. Basically, I would rather see him hand the baton on to someone appropriate at the appropriate time, rather than just giving him the arse. He isn't a terrible captain, he just isn't ideal. We don't have anyone on the list better suited to long term captain right now.

I don't know about that.. I think he's pretty poor, and again, not alone. I know we're talking in IFs here, but we do have history to base his performance on so far.... IF nothing changes, I'd be very surprised and disappointed to see the captaincy remain with him until he's 30 ... Would send a terrible msg, and risk the development of our young guys like Menz, Cripps, BB etc...

We may or may not have others on the list better suited - the only ones I'd seriously consider would be Daisy (though I don't think he needs the added pressure at this stage) and Gibbs, but I'd be more than happy to bring in an outsider (2/3 would be even better) to take up leadership positions including the captaincy.... That's what I think needs to happen if no one steps up this season....

The complication obviously, is who? and how?

There's a couple of fellas running around at GWS that I reckon are made of the right stuff... Would be bold for sure.

 

[ShanDog]

Do we really want to bring in another outsider to be captain?

I keep thinking that if it's going to be 3-4 years before we are a good side, we might as well wait to give the captaincy to someone like Docherty in a couple of years time, rather than just pay someone big bucks to come in and captain a dud team.

 

[ESKIE]

You wouldn't think so but that depends on the pressure that comes about.

I was thinking Carrazzo or Simpson as captain and Murphy a distant third but then something seemed to change.
We can go back and look at what we thought two years ago but I do recall the announcement being somewhat uncomfortable........Could be wrong.

I recall as well Carrazzo & Simmo where front runners for the job, and then Murphy was announced

Was It political? Dunno

Not an inspirational leader on field, behind the scenes could be different, but I think not

 

[Jatz]

Everyone saying no one from our leadership group stood up on Thursday--Jammo at least tried. On more than one occasion he called all of the men on his line together and gave them a good talking to.

Should he not be doing that anyway though? I thought the defense regularly caught up after goals etc. Or are you meaning something different?

Either way, I more meant they didn't stand up in playing by example.

 

[Jatz]

I recall as well Carrazzo & Simmo where front runners for the job, and then Murphy was announced

Was It political? Dunno

Not an inspirational leader on field, behind the scenes could be different, but I think not

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Carazzo had just had his triplets at the time and they weren't sure he could balance them and the extra work load. Not an unfair assumption.

Simpson from all reports is not a very social guy. More introverted than most at the club, which is saying something. Would have lead by his actions on field but not sure he has what it takes behind the scenes.

 

[fnm_just a man]

Do we really want to bring in another outsider to be captain?

I keep thinking that if it's going to be 3-4 years before we are a good side, we might as well wait to give the captaincy to someone like Docherty in a couple of years time, rather than just pay someone big bucks to come in and captain a dud team.

My concern is that none of these players are going to become captain material without the right people leading the way, and then in 3-4 years we're having this discussion all over again. Our track record is atrocious. In saying that, I do have more faith in MM developing leaders that Ratts.... I'd be happy to bring an outsider in for sure, so long as it wasn't going to bring discontent to the entire playing group. I want someone to stamp their authority sooner rather than later, else bad habits become bad habits for a whole new generation.... I can't handle another 3-4 seasons of playing loose and not protecting the ball carrier!

 

[Azul]

Mark Whiley.

Watch him debut against the Bombers and there will be a unanimous sigh that we've unearthed our next captain.

 

[ESKIE]

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Carazzo had just had his triplets at the time and they weren't sure he could balance them and the extra work load. Not an unfair assumption.

Simpson from all reports is not a very social guy. More introverted than most at the club, which is saying something. Would have lead by his actions on field but not sure he has what it takes behind the scenes.

Not sure Jatz, but I'm with Harker. When it was announced, it was uncomfortable...

I remember reading somewhere that Marc's father John got involved...unsure if thats true

 

[ESKIE]

Mark Whiley.

Watch him debut against the Bombers and there will be a unanimous sigh that we've unearthed our next captain.

Do tell Azul

 

[Bronze]

Mark Whiley.

Watch him debut against the Bombers and there will be a unanimous sigh that we've unearthed our next captain.

Yeaah naah…

 

[The Blue Baggers]

At present across all Carlton online forums, rightly or wrongly, Marc Murphy is copping a heap of flack, mainly in relation to his leadership credentials. This is not an easy subject to dissect as most Blues supporters are fully supportive of Marc Murphy as a player, but they may not be as supportive of him as captain believing that he is not the right person for the job due to being uninspiring, too quiet and lacking in genuine leadership skills.

He came to the club as a highly talented #1 draft pick, has played some brilliant football after walking into the team immediately. On the flipside, some people believe that he hasn't taken his game up to another level like most elite players do when they get into that peak 26-30 age bracket.

The club awarded him the captaincy after Judd as he was the next in line as vice-captain. Many would argue that there wasn't a long list of captaincy options and it would of been a tough gig to take especially when you had to play in the team with Judd still there.

Having said that, when you compare him to some of the other team leaders in the competition (Selwood, Hodge, Cotchin etc), there is a stark difference in persona & presence to Murphy which may be one of the reasons that his leadership is being questioned right now.

Therefore, are the supporters right about this and if so, what should the club do about it ??

Or, is he the right man for the job and everyone should get behind our man ??

For mine, I would find it difficult to stand down a captain if they haven't transgressed to such an extent that they have brought the club into disrepute. On the flipside, sometimes you make decisions that seemed right at the time but further down the track prove to be flawed and steps have to be taken to rectify the situation.

Maybe there should be an indepth review to ascertain how much he really wants the job because I feel that he may have been a reluctant recipient initially. If that was the case, then the club could announce that the captaincy is affecting his overall onfield output and make a change, even if it is a short-term one, and then look at who may be the next best coming through the ranks.

I can see both sides of the argument here, he is a ripper player but maybe the captaincy role is too much of a burden for him right now ??

good post and well worth questioning

aside from judd the team lacks leaders , suspect murphy got the job when judd relinquished the captaincy because he was the next best player and there was a lack of alternatives

others have pointed out simpson is the only other option

 

[__Bobcat__]

Do tell Azul

Esque,
I have heard good things about this Kid,
And i too cant wait for his DEBUT.

 

[thylacine60]

Yeaah naah…

yeah naah, one step at a time = future captain

 

[__Bobcat__]

Only a short stride to Reach the current captain.

 

[thylacine60]

MM + MM, both our current whipping boys now......

 

[Murphkreuzmitch]

It's definitely got a bit of the chicken and the egg about it... I believe that leadership is more important at this stage. Geelong suddenly switched on and started playing great football when the leaders pulled their collective fingers out and took the team by the scruff of the neck, likewise the 3-peat Lions team.

The main reason that I believe it is the numero uno issue at Carlton, is that I don't trust that the young players we bring in are ever going to amount to anything, without us having the right people showing the way (kind of why I don't think we've seen the best of our current list, and possibly never will), unless said young person is a unique Selwood or Hodge type of character ...

There are quite obvious reasons to question Murph's leadership on field, however I believe it serves absolutely no purpose in changing captains if the support mechanisms are not in place on the field.

I wonder what training was given to each player in the leadership group, how their roles have been defined to them? I am a massive believer this needs to come from the coach and judging by our lack of leadership I really believe this was done with very little thought and no investment into the players in the group.

I look forward to seeing a Carlton Captain be successful, but this can only happen if they are given the correct structure, tools and training which I believe are currently lacking. I feel Chris Judd was put in the same situation and although as a player lived up to his potential,as a captain was quite meek.

I have exactly the same concerns for our younger players, and it is fair to say development has been an issue at Carlton long before Murphy became Captain.

 

[Azul]

Do tell Azul

perfect Carrots replacement. Barracked for us as a kid, tall contested mid.

Looking at that video, we could use a David Mundy type.

Did I mention the hair?

 

[teknodeejay]

I'll get murdered but I watchdes Essendon and Sydney and Jobe Watson is a good leader (notwithstanding they got 50 something points kicked against them without scoring).

He was constantly talking to his players at stoppages. Even when he kicked a goal his first instinct was to set up the next play.

Drug cheat or not, it's my view that's what a captain should be about. They need to be skilled enough to be in your best 22 regardless but it can't be just about looking pretty.

It's why I thought Simmo was the best choice a few years ago. Maybe not now. But if Murphy was to be relenquished of captaincy (he won't) id probably give Gibbs the nod.

 

[Big_Luch]

MM + MM, both our current whipping boys now......

a problem shared is a problem halved?

 

[fnm_just a man]

I'll get murdered but I watchdes Essendon and Sydney and Jobe Watson is a good leader (notwithstanding they got 50 something points kicked against them without scoring).

He was constantly talking to his players at stoppages. Even when he kicked a goal his first instinct was to set up the next play.

Drug cheat or not, it's my view that's what a captain should be about. They need to be skilled enough to be in your best 22 regardless but it can't be just about looking pretty.

It's why I thought Simmo was the best choice a few years ago. Maybe not now. But if Murphy was to be relenquished of captaincy (he won't) id probably give Gibbs the nod.

Won't be murdered by me ... Jobe is a ripper captain .. I've spoken about him in the past. He knows exactly what's required by every player and if any player is not doing as they should be, he lets them know about it.

 

[thylacine60]

a problem shared is a problem halved?

a problem halved leaves 2 problems......

 

[fnm_just a man]

There are quite obvious reasons to question Murph's leadership on field, however I believe it serves absolutely no purpose in changing captains if the support mechanisms are not in place on the field.

I wonder what training was given to each player in the leadership group, how their roles have been defined to them? I am a massive believer this needs to come from the coach and judging by our lack of leadership I really believe this was done with very little thought and no investment into the players in the group.

I look forward to seeing a Carlton Captain be successful, but this can only happen if they are given the correct structure, tools and training which I believe are currently lacking. I feel Chris Judd was put in the same situation and although as a player lived up to his potential,as a captain was quite meek.

I have exactly the same concerns for our younger players, and it is fair to say development has been an issue at Carlton long before Murphy became Captain.

I agree regarding Judd ... He was not a great captain. Certainly sets a great example with the way he goes about training and preparation, but he didn't have the personality our club required. In his defence, he was a reluctant captain at the Eagles and I think he was a reluctant captain at Carlton as well. Unlucky bugger! ha

Again, it is something that kind of needs to go hand-in-hand to an extent, re having the support, defined roles, structure etc. It may have been something overlooked in the past. I can't imagine it's something that MM and the off-field team overlook. In saying that, I still think that unique, great captains/leaders take ownership of the situation. If there was a lack of support and definition then the captain and team leaders should have raised that with the coach and the off-field team and they should have worked together to solve it. That they didn't, could be seen as a further indictment. If they did, then many people on and off-field really sucked at their jobs.

There are certain things that you could argue are quite tricky for a captain and the leaders and that do require training and support, but there are more things that are very simple and basic roles of a captain/leaders. Sadly, we haven't seen anything for a long time.