Seems a lot of the dockers players are keen on Lisa Webb who is part of the Dogs AFLW coaching set up and her husband is part of the mens program at the dogs.
She doesn't seem keen on heading back to Perth so hopefully we will be speaking to her.
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News Carlton AFLW Full Scale Review - UPDATE: Harford & Blues part ways
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She doesn't seem keen on heading back to Perth so hopefully we will be speaking to her.
I'm sure if Daisy was offered the senior coaching role with us, Geelong would not stand in her way.
thylacine60
Post-Human
- Banned
- #52
like that thinking.........
I can see Daisy having the passion to become a senior coach of an AflW club, but imo i get the feeling that she would love and thrive on the challenge as an AFL assistant coach, has an exceptional footy brain from every time I’ve heard her talk about the game as a commentator or breaking the games down on SEN…
…And more than intelligent enough to know you don’t jump straight into the top role.
Wouldn’t surprise me if she does a couple of different roles, potentially at a couple of clubs, before throwing her hat in the ring for a job as head coach.
It would be the logical thing for her to do, hands on experience in a professional environment at the top level…
No brainer…
I'm glad we are doing this. We have had all the advantage and we're a poor side. I would say considering how much advantage we have had that we are worse than what we are, we are a basketcase, or at least one in the making.
We've lost nearly any top level player we have ever had. We were one of the original clubs and we started with a strong list that has since fallen to pieces.
I think we need to look at why players leave us for a start. What's wrong there. Are there cultural issues? Problems with existing players? Problems with existing coaches? Issues with how we run it? Are we recruiting the wrong players?
I think we need to take the approach AFL teams who have had player retention issues have taken when recruiting. Try and pick players who will stay. AFLW is more of a play for love competition. Players have to like the club and team/environment they play in. Target Carlton supporters. Stay clear of players looking for high money contracts. Pick players who have a solid job/career path, they maybe players who aren't looking for money, must stay clear of that.
Think we also need to keep the focus on the footy side of things for the players. I'm not fond of us calling our players "game changes" for a start. It's tacky, it's very me too, it's virtue signalling and political. It gives this feeling that they aren't being taken seriously for what they are. We don't call our AFL players game changers. We call them footballers. Carlton footballers. The Blues. Let's call them that. Imagine being recruited and being labelled a game changer, welcome to your new job, oh by the way you're a game changer, you're a political statement as well and this will be the basis of your title and what we refer to your position as. It's takes away from what footballers want to be, a footballer who is successful and plays to win and you're purpose is to be a statement and promotional tool too much. A lot of people aren't going to like this, it's going to make them uncomfortable and feel a little less respected IMO. I think this one should be put to a blind survey over they playing group, this and other things that may make them feel in the spotlight too much or uncomfortable or they don't like for what ever reason. I think it's important that our players feel they are respected, taken seriously and have a genuine feel about their purpose at the club as elite Aussie Rules footballers and representatives of the Carlton Football Club as Footballers. Personally I hate the idea of being a footballer but also having the weight of being other things as well, I understand some may relish that but I believe many just want to quietly go about their business of playing, training and enjoying what they do.
I think it's important that all the social and political issues are stripped back and we just keep things simple. Focus on what makes playing footy good, focus on being footballers, being a part of a good club culture and what makes a good club culture. Focus on what got the players to play the game and what got them here in the first place. I'm not sure all players want to be tools of promotion or political statements regardless of how positive they may be.
I think player development needs to come into play. A lot of raw players out there who need to accelerate their skills. Coaching, game plan, it all comes into it but individual player development is important for us. I see a lot of improvement there to be made.
Definitely need to talk to both present and past players. You need to talk to both parties with issues like this our you're going to end up with a one sided view and not get to the bottom of the issues. After all it's the ones who left who hold the issues on our player retention problems. You speak to those who are happy those who are very unhappy and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
I don't know what's gone wrong, we should be a premiership or two in, we have had plenty of advantage but instead we are a lowly side with player retention issues. There is no doubt that there are issues here.
I think it comes back to what they players want. A fair wage and an even wage. No big money players. To play football without having the pressure of many other things lumped onto them, just play the game and be a good person and do a little media once in a while. To be coached, trained and developed well and to have success. To be a part of a club that has a good culture, one where respect is strong, where players feel safe and can enjoy the game.
We've lost nearly any top level player we have ever had. We were one of the original clubs and we started with a strong list that has since fallen to pieces.
I think we need to look at why players leave us for a start. What's wrong there. Are there cultural issues? Problems with existing players? Problems with existing coaches? Issues with how we run it? Are we recruiting the wrong players?
I think we need to take the approach AFL teams who have had player retention issues have taken when recruiting. Try and pick players who will stay. AFLW is more of a play for love competition. Players have to like the club and team/environment they play in. Target Carlton supporters. Stay clear of players looking for high money contracts. Pick players who have a solid job/career path, they maybe players who aren't looking for money, must stay clear of that.
Think we also need to keep the focus on the footy side of things for the players. I'm not fond of us calling our players "game changes" for a start. It's tacky, it's very me too, it's virtue signalling and political. It gives this feeling that they aren't being taken seriously for what they are. We don't call our AFL players game changers. We call them footballers. Carlton footballers. The Blues. Let's call them that. Imagine being recruited and being labelled a game changer, welcome to your new job, oh by the way you're a game changer, you're a political statement as well and this will be the basis of your title and what we refer to your position as. It's takes away from what footballers want to be, a footballer who is successful and plays to win and you're purpose is to be a statement and promotional tool too much. A lot of people aren't going to like this, it's going to make them uncomfortable and feel a little less respected IMO. I think this one should be put to a blind survey over they playing group, this and other things that may make them feel in the spotlight too much or uncomfortable or they don't like for what ever reason. I think it's important that our players feel they are respected, taken seriously and have a genuine feel about their purpose at the club as elite Aussie Rules footballers and representatives of the Carlton Football Club as Footballers. Personally I hate the idea of being a footballer but also having the weight of being other things as well, I understand some may relish that but I believe many just want to quietly go about their business of playing, training and enjoying what they do.
I think it's important that all the social and political issues are stripped back and we just keep things simple. Focus on what makes playing footy good, focus on being footballers, being a part of a good club culture and what makes a good club culture. Focus on what got the players to play the game and what got them here in the first place. I'm not sure all players want to be tools of promotion or political statements regardless of how positive they may be.
I think player development needs to come into play. A lot of raw players out there who need to accelerate their skills. Coaching, game plan, it all comes into it but individual player development is important for us. I see a lot of improvement there to be made.
Definitely need to talk to both present and past players. You need to talk to both parties with issues like this our you're going to end up with a one sided view and not get to the bottom of the issues. After all it's the ones who left who hold the issues on our player retention problems. You speak to those who are happy those who are very unhappy and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
I don't know what's gone wrong, we should be a premiership or two in, we have had plenty of advantage but instead we are a lowly side with player retention issues. There is no doubt that there are issues here.
I think it comes back to what they players want. A fair wage and an even wage. No big money players. To play football without having the pressure of many other things lumped onto them, just play the game and be a good person and do a little media once in a while. To be coached, trained and developed well and to have success. To be a part of a club that has a good culture, one where respect is strong, where players feel safe and can enjoy the game.
thylacine60
Post-Human
- Banned
- #57
I expect us to take the spoon in 2023 actually..........what an abject mess...........
Jimmae
Brownlow Medallist
Yes
This is not the only way to accomplish this: why not play a game style that doesn't suck the life out of you as you play it?
Yep her special comments are immediately more insightful than what most of the others have to offer, including Hodge and Jobe.
(I'm aware that in Jobe's case that isn't saying much - he has an entire thread on the main board dedicated to his mangling of the English language.)
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I was fine with 'game changers' when the AFLW launched, as that was very much the vibe at the time. But now that we're half a dozen years in it's getting a bit silly. The game has changed. Congrats, well done, tick. Obviously there's still a long process ahead around further growing and developing the women's game, but as a club identity it no longer fits.
Our focus lately has been on bringing both teams together and treating them equally: same facilities, rooms, etc. Time for a team identity that reflects that. One that looks not to the past (did you know there didn't used to be a women's comp? the game has changed!) but the present and the future.
Our focus lately has been on bringing both teams together and treating them equally: same facilities, rooms, etc. Time for a team identity that reflects that. One that looks not to the past (did you know there didn't used to be a women's comp? the game has changed!) but the present and the future.
Yes that too. I think the coaching has become stale. From my experience coaching footy, putting numbers behind the ball when you're getting easily beaten is always a bad thing. You still need to have a balanced structure. Better to lose 20 goals to 3 than it is to lose 15 goals to 0. Better to try and keep scoring to stay in it or maintain a lead than it is to put numbers back, not score and stop the opposition scoring. That kind of thing. I think a new coaching group with new ideas and a will to attack is on the cards.
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Daisy has those two covered quite easily, they’re not the only two across the media coverages…
Some people are a bit of a natural while no doubt some seem to be less articulate than others…
It’s not an easy gig I’d imagine, no matter how good of a player you once were…
- Sep 26, 2004
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- #63
I mostly agree with your post but this is a horrendous call.
I’m not sure I need to elaborate on that.
Why? Some people relish being a part of this sort of thing and they express themselves about it, it's who they are and that's fine. You will find there is a quiet majority who can't stand it, that's who they are and that is fine too. They just want to play football, do what they are employed to do, keep out of the spotlight, keep it simple.
I have no issues with sporting clubs having a stance on things and having beliefs but it needs to stay in the background, football needs to be in the foreground. I think social and political issues have been put too much in the foreground in sport. I don't think it's been great for sport.
Put yourselves in an athletes shoes. You have a job, you are employed or perhaps you've had a job and employer in the past. You have a title relating to what you do and you take some pride in that, it's what you've worked towards. You're comfortable and content. All of a sudden you're employer decides they are going to change your title to something irrelevant/non-descript to what you do, not derogatory but it takes away from what you are and what you have worked hard to become. Then come social/political issues, Your employer demands you are dressed up and dedicate your working hours publicly to those issues. No consultation, just do it. Is that going to make you feel comfortable and respected? What if you don't agree with it? What if you do but you're an introvert who just prefers to stay out of it because this makes you really uncomfortable and anxious?
We all have friendship circles and we all know not everyone wants to be outspoken and a public voice, it makes them uncomfortable. We all know not everyone will agree with a lot of the social/political stances athletes (going off topic slightly from AFLW, talking all athletes globally) are made to support.
I'm looking at sport, the Carlton Football Club as a place of employment. There are some things which are unique to sport which you don't see in other work places in terms of the demands outside the employees (football players) skillset and role.
I'm all for supporting charity, great cause, raise money, go for it. I'm ok with creating awareness for social/political issues to an extent. But it needs to be kept more in the background. Here's what you do, you put this to the players in a blind survey, see whether it's something which bothers them or not, I bet the results would surprise people, I bet there would be a significant number who would prefer that this wasn't a part of what they do.
This is something I have thought a bit about. There has been a huge rise in social and political statements in sport, athletes are forced to comply and act along with these statements. Knowing how people vary in terms of beliefs and how they feel about expressing them. I really do question whether we are stepping outside boundaries here a little.
It's not about whether I agree with it or not, I don't really care too much but I can see how individual athletes will. I don't think it generally makes a working environment which people feel safe and comfortable in when politics and social beliefs are heavily involved. We have seen a Muslim AFLW player refuse to wear a pride jumper which she is more than entitled to do, it's her beliefs which are within the laws of the country. That's one player who has acted, there will be bucket loads who don't act. What happens when there is a player who is borderline with their mental health, the team/league demands they support a cause they don't support, they feel outcasted, pressured into it and it breaks them. Triggers anxiety issues, they have a mental break down and the club/league gets sued because it could have been avoided and the views and health of this person were overlooked.
Here's another question. Is it actually ethical to force an employee to have, support and promote certain beliefs and views? Aren't we supposed to be inclusive of all beliefs and views that are within the boundaries of the the laws of the country?
Again, not my feelings, I don't have any negative feelings towards anything the club or league have supported however you need to be able to see things through other individuals eyes. I don't think it's ethical to force or pressure athletes to be political and social justice pawns. I think there is a work cover case or two brewing here. I don't think it creates an environment where everyone is respected, feels safe and comfortable.
- Sep 26, 2004
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- #65
Wait a second...what year is it?
I could have sworn we recently ticked into 2023, but you seem to be stuck in the 70s or 80s.
The days of footy players rocking up on game day and otherwise fading into relative obscurity are long gone.
It's a full time gig now and with that comes extra responsibilities. These guys and girls are role models to thousands of people across the country.
Clubs have also evolved because they have to. They understand their place in society and rightly take great pride in getting behind some very worthy and important causes and societal issues.
Which causes or issues are you so against the club promoting? Women's rights? Indigenous communities? Disadvantaged children?
I pity anyone who doesn't stand alongside the club or anyone promoting these, and it's completely absurd to suggest that involvement with them in any way shape or form impacts the players' performances on game day.
I mean, at a theoretical level I also dislike the notion of an employer forcing employees to become public mouthpieces of values they don't actually share. But is that actually happening in practice? As far as I can see the club does a pretty good job of making sure that the people who speak publicly about an issue are the ones who genuinely care about it, e.g. Lochie O'Brien with Carlton Respects.
Yes, there was that issue at another club with a player choosing not to wear the pride jumper. And what happened? Her teammates and coach and the club supported her in her decision and she was back in the team the following week. There are some players at Carlton who have strong religious beliefs too, and I'm not aware that any of them have been asked to do anything they feel uncomfortable with. To the best of my knowledge, that example was a one-off across the entire league, and it was dealt with compassionately and sensitively and with no hard feelings on any side.
It's also worth remembering that there's a difference between what is put forward for public consumption via the media team and what is emphasised within the club. I daresay that football is well and truly in the foreground of players' minds within the club regardless of causes or themed rounds etc.
I guess what I'm saying is that your post seems to contain a number of assumptions about quiet majorities and bucket loads of players and what you bet most players would think, but I'm honestly not aware of any evidence to support those statements.
I'm basing this from stuff I know which has happened in other work places. I wont go into details and this is not my personal experience, it's someone close to me. Having a person come into a work place and basically read the riot act, forced their beliefs onto these workers and it made many of them awfully uncomfortable to the point where some wanted to quit, it pushed them pretty far. This is how you must speak, this is what you must believe, you're opinions must match mine kind of stuff. All in the name of political correctness and not offending people. Made a lot of people very anxious but only one person spoke out which IMO took a lot of guts because this is the direction of the world is going and if you don't agree you get attacked for it.
I think you need to understand that if you're making people uncomfortable and anxious just how few are going to speak out. Particularly when you are an employee in a high pressure environment and you probably feel you're hanging onto your career by a thread all the time. Even more so if there is a public spotlight on them as there are with athletes. You just shut up and tow the company line.
I've said it before and I will say it again. Do the charity stuff, but the political and social stuff which people are going to have different feelings and opinions about, you're going to create friction and an unsettling environment. You will create anxiety amongst some individuals. Let people have their beliefs, do the right thing morally as a club but using individuals to enforce and promote beliefs, I don't see a way where that is going to make all individuals comfortable and have the right environment for a playing group. That's just how people work from my experience.
And I do think if people on an individual level wish to support a cause or a belief then that's great, go for it.
Let me put it another way. An elite footy team are a selection of individuals plucked out of the community with one thing in common, they are good at footy. They are going to differ in many many other ways.
You bring politics and social issues into sport, the dinner table, hanging out with your mates, the work place, a romantic date etc. It's kind of a downer, it can get awkward. I don't see it as a good thing in terms of how people feel in the moment and in that space.
I think if you can make a sporting a club a place where people can go to get away from the things they don't like in the world, the things that make them feel awkward, anxious, stressed, pressured etc. A place to escape life and the worlds problems then you are creating a place where people want to be and want to go to.
Not sure you've read what I have written.
I've made it very clear I am not against any of the issues. I am fine with it with my personal views. But it's not about me, I don't work there. My point, which I have also made clear is the issue that bringing in politics and social issues creates amongst a group of individuals. Individuals who have different points of views and opinions. I'm very much for doing charity work, think that's important, no one is going to be against that.
Not stuck in the past at all. Very much seeing into the future, where eventually it becomes quite unacceptable to force beliefs upon people. At the present it's very acceptable to do that.
It's not about game day performance either, never said anything about that either. It's about having a club environment where players can feel comfortable to have their own beliefs and opinions. A place where people can go to escape the negatives of the world as much as possible. A place where people feel good about going to and being at. Once you bring politics and social issues into an organisation you lose that. It looks good on the outside, and that's what the modern world seems to becoming more about, looking good on the outside, but is it good on the inside?
Many things wrong with Carlton's AFLW program, a lot of unhappy players getting out of there. Why? Without knowing it is impossible to say. But we have to know.
I think it's a worthy discussion. Discussing the impact strong political and social views have on a sporting club and organisation. Will you end up losing diversity by pushing out those who's views and feeling differ? Will you negatively effect the individuals within that organisation? Does it create segregation and friction within the group? Is there a happy medium where you can please everyone? There is definitely good and bad. You'd love to hear from past and present players what their opinions of our club environment and what sort of place it is like to work in. Going to be different opinions for sure. Is this an issue or not? No idea but it's worth a thought.
- Sep 26, 2004
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- #69
I'll ask again, which 'opinions' are you speaking about specifically?
Pride round? Women's rights? Supporting our Indigenous communities? Disadvantaged kids?
Clearly the support of one or more of them aren't quite aligned with you. It would be really interesting to understand which one(s).
I think you need to understand clubs have welfare officers and psychologists.
Who is being forced to do anything? Unless there's specific examples it just seems as though you're blowing hot air for the sake of it - all because 'someone close to you' in a completely different environment had an issue.
Some may be more comfortable than others in being in the limelight and may be more aligned with certain causes than others, but to suggest there would be a significant number is a bit silly when you consider the causes we're actually talking about.
Clubs aren't going to ignore their moral responsibilities because one or two aren't aligned.
How very noble of you.
See original comment regards to being stuck in the 80s or 90s. Your thinking is simply out of date.
All power to you. I'm going to say clubs and the overwhelming majority of players disagree with you, are fine with it and see it worth their time.
Out of interest, what's your experience with making sporting clubs and promoting the environment within? And as a follow up, why do you think you're better placed to make a call on this than those who are currently within those environments?
And yeah, another reference to your thinking being way, way out of date. Footy clubs aren't "a place to escape life and the worlds problems". Haven't been for decades, and never will be again.
- Sep 26, 2004
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- #70
I read it. Sorry, you've missed the mark by a long way.
Not for the first time a moderator gets on the front foot and attacks a poster over commonsense comments on what is an increasingly uncomfortable discussion.
Let sport be sport. Too much of politics, religion, gender etc etc etc. The poster is rightly suggesting that sportsmen should just play the game they hopefully excel at and leave social commentary elsewhere. He rightly espouses that it will often become an untenable situation to be expected or compelled to, even tacitly, support views someone, or even a, or the group ( even if it is the accepted norm) espouse.
Sport should not be a platform for uncomfortable or radical views, nor should it be the bastion of popular beliefs. Play the bloody game.
Fair go.
- Nov 27, 2016
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- Sep 26, 2004
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- #73
Batman is a good poster and contributor to the board. I just think he's missed the mark by a long way on this particular issue.
What's me being a mod got to do with anything?
Sport is sport. The insinuation that because they're a sporting club they can't also stand up for what's right is nonsensical.
I'm glad my club is doing the right thing and standing up where they can in areas of social injustice.
I'm glad my club has realized they have a significant role to play in our society and it extends beyond what they produce on the field.
I'm ashamed that some haven't joined the rest of society and are stuck in previous decades.
Sportsmen should just play sport. Indigenous people should stay in their marginalized communities and not bother the rest of us. Women should just stay in the kitchen. The disabled should focus on themselves rather than integrating into society. Got it.
They do 'play the bloody game'. They've just woken up and realized their role and responsibility in society extends beyond that.
- Nov 27, 2016
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Can we just get a few players who can pick the ball up? And maybe a few more can catch the thing too.
In future, perhaps we can get some who and handball it to a teammate when they are 3m away.
In future, perhaps we can get some who and handball it to a teammate when they are 3m away.
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thylacine60
Post-Human
- Banned
- #75
is this some kind of sick joke?
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