Carlton and Melbourne - who has the greater supporter base

[Andy_Mac]

Who cares??

Clubs profitable and there are plenty of teams with worse attendance records even in our dark years.

Now with what would appear to be a bright outlook the sleepers will awaken and a new generation of supporters awaits.

 

[FootyGeek]

Just a comment on how bs a lot of the memberships numbers are.

My gf is a Swedish engineering student who upon arriving in Melbourne was given free tickets to an Essendon game. After submitting her email for the tickets, she and about 15 other exchange students became Essendon 'members' complete with lanyards and all.

There would have been hundreds possibly thousands more 'members' like them.

When taken with the ridiculous Crows' numbers, it's all a bit of a joke.

Every club is given 3000 basic memberships a year by the AFL that they can use for promotions and just plain giving away.

 

[hilly]

Think about how many Melbourne supporters you know..... there's not many is there.

I know about 20 or so.

 

[My name geoff]

When the Blues are up and about, this question would be laughed at. In essence, there's your answer.

Regarding the Hawks:
If the Hawks had the same on field fortunes as the blues from 2002-current, they wouldn't have over 50,000 members as the blues do now. Cross them off the list.

Regarding Richmond:
Richmond, they have shown us their peak and other than membership, it looks like a lot of their numbers are similar to the Blues. Since 1997 Richmond have averaged 39k per game to the blues 41k despite the Blues being based at either Princes park or the dome during that time. Carlton have been less successful than Richmond during this period so I think if we see Carlton based at the MCG and win a premiership, their attendance numbers will exceed Richmond's comfortably. In 2017 Richmond won the flag and Carlton finished 16th yet there was only a 7k difference in their average attendance. I would be very very very surprised if Carlton didn't average 7k more people per game if they were sitting on top of the ladder rather than the bottom. Especially if we were given more games at the G.

Historical point of view:
of the top 20 biggest crowds in history, Carlton feature in 10, Collingwood the next best feature in 7

The last 20 years:
In 2009 and 2011, years in which Carlton were ok on field, they had the highest average attendances in the comp despite being based at the dome. Both these years are in the top 20 all-time average attendances for a season. With only 5 seasons featured in the top 20 from teams based at the dome (2- Carlton, 3-Essendon) this is a key measure. The only teams capable of achieving this feat are Essendon, Collingwood and Carlton

To put it bluntly, bandwagons aside Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon have the strongest brands in the Comp, with onfield success and off field organisation determining who holds sway.

In my opinion, Richmond hold fourth position as for some reason they are the most exciting when up and about but lack the substance of the the other 3. There is a vanillaness about the tigers which makes them easy to bandwagon. Dunno if it’s the name, Guernsey or song?

 

[schmuttt]

This is flawed immediately when you see the Swans doubling everyone else

Also find it strange that apparently Melbourne has the least supporters of any Vic club yet our crowds are regularly higher than North/Dogs/Saints in Melbourne.

 

[gopies1981]

Not just Supercoach, but pretty much any evidence you want to look at. Young people just don't barrack for the Demons anymore. At least North have grown their supporter base with some consistent success over the last 40 years.

No one barracks for the Demons anymore.

I wouldn’t say no one barracks for the demon anymore. In round 21 the played in front of 51,000 v Sydney and 37,000 v gws. Also drew 83,000 v Collingwood and 77,000 v Richmond. The only issue is that 70% of their fan base is over 60 years old.

If they can have sustained success win a couple of premierships in 5 years kids will follow them. Playing at the mcg will help then. Plus they have the most mcc members. Tho according to social media and fans surveys they are ranked last out of Victorian clubs I think their are 2 reasons for this;

1) they have a old following of 60 year old plus members.
2) since social media has been around since 2007 they have been the worst performed club!!!

When Melbourne are winning and I think the finals proved this and some of their home and away games they draw more people the north, bulldogs and st.kilda .

But they must start winning and now

 

[gopies1981]

This official survey from Morgan Gallup from 2017.

These survey tend to bounce around each year a bit, based on the previous years success, but there is still an overall gauge towards the historically successful clubs.

As you can see, Essendon and Collingwod are 1-2 on this one for the Vic clubs. It is nowhere near as accurate as the Supercoach numbers. Nowhere near. But it is still a good guide.

Guess who is last of the Victorian clubs? They are last on EVERY survey


http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/7345-roy-morgan-afl-supporter-ladder-2017-201709210118View attachment 614919

Update Roy Morgan poll for 2018

 

[Creepen]

There’s more Carlton supporters 100%
There just the bigger club, we were probably one of the more popular clubs in our glory years, but 60 years over being hopeless didn’t really give us the chance to recruit the newer generations.

Hopefully this changes over the next decade or two, success is a hell of a thing for member/supporter numbers

 

[Tiger Toffee]

The last 20 years:
In 2009 and 2011, years in which Carlton were ok on field, they had the highest average attendances in the comp despite being based at the dome. Both these years are in the top 20 all-time average attendances for a season. With only 5 seasons featured in the top 20 from teams based at the dome (2- Carlton, 3-Essendon) this is a key measure. The only teams capable of achieving this feat are Essendon, Collingwood and Carlton

Wrong.

 

[HTT]

When the Blues are up and about, this question would be laughed at. In essence, there's your answer.

Regarding the Hawks:
If the Hawks had the same on field fortunes as the blues from 2002-current, they wouldn't have over 50,000 members as the blues do now. Cross them off the list.

Regarding Richmond:
Richmond, they have shown us their peak and other than membership, it looks like a lot of their numbers are similar to the Blues. Since 1997 Richmond have averaged 39k per game to the blues 41k despite the Blues being based at either Princes park or the dome during that time. Carlton have been less successful than Richmond during this period so I think if we see Carlton based at the MCG and win a premiership, their attendance numbers will exceed Richmond's comfortably. In 2017 Richmond won the flag and Carlton finished 16th yet there was only a 7k difference in their average attendance. I would be very very very surprised if Carlton didn't average 7k more people per game if they were sitting on top of the ladder rather than the bottom. Especially if we were given more games at the G.

Historical point of view:
of the top 20 biggest crowds in history, Carlton feature in 10, Collingwood the next best feature in 7

The last 20 years:
In 2009 and 2011, years in which Carlton were ok on field, they had the highest average attendances in the comp despite being based at the dome. Both these years are in the top 20 all-time average attendances for a season. With only 5 seasons featured in the top 20 from teams based at the dome (2- Carlton, 3-Essendon) this is a key measure. The only teams capable of achieving this feat are Essendon, Collingwood and Carlton

To put it bluntly, bandwagons aside Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon have the strongest brands in the Comp, with onfield success and off field organisation determining who holds sway.

In my opinion, Richmond hold fourth position as for some reason they are the most exciting when up and about but lack the substance of the the other 3. There is a vanillaness about the tigers which makes them easy to bandwagon. Dunno if it’s the name, Guernsey or song?

Lol sure, once you count all your away games, you averaged only 7k less than us in 2017.
More tellingly, your home crowd average was 17k less than ours.

 

[dzussy]

Update Roy Morgan poll for 2018

View attachment 626581

What a crock of sh#t.... Sydney?

What this poll says is when the China Chow Miens come into the AFL, they will have the biggest supporter base.

Did the Roy Morgan poll follow the US Elections too? Pffft.

 

[__Nantes__]

They're both pretty great.

 

[Hawkk]

When the Blues are up and about, this question would be laughed at. In essence, there's your answer.

Regarding the Hawks:
If the Hawks had the same on field fortunes as the blues from 2002-current, they wouldn't have over 50,000 members as the blues do now. Cross them off the list.

Regarding Richmond:
Richmond, they have shown us their peak and other than membership, it looks like a lot of their numbers are similar to the Blues. Since 1997 Richmond have averaged 39k per game to the blues 41k despite the Blues being based at either Princes park or the dome during that time. Carlton have been less successful than Richmond during this period so I think if we see Carlton based at the MCG and win a premiership, their attendance numbers will exceed Richmond's comfortably. In 2017 Richmond won the flag and Carlton finished 16th yet there was only a 7k difference in their average attendance. I would be very very very surprised if Carlton didn't average 7k more people per game if they were sitting on top of the ladder rather than the bottom. Especially if we were given more games at the G.

Historical point of view:
of the top 20 biggest crowds in history, Carlton feature in 10, Collingwood the next best feature in 7

The last 20 years:
In 2009 and 2011, years in which Carlton were ok on field, they had the highest average attendances in the comp despite being based at the dome. Both these years are in the top 20 all-time average attendances for a season. With only 5 seasons featured in the top 20 from teams based at the dome (2- Carlton, 3-Essendon) this is a key measure. The only teams capable of achieving this feat are Essendon, Collingwood and Carlton

To put it bluntly, bandwagons aside Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon have the strongest brands in the Comp, with onfield success and off field organisation determining who holds sway.

In my opinion, Richmond hold fourth position as for some reason they are the most exciting when up and about but lack the substance of the the other 3. There is a vanillaness about the tigers which makes them easy to bandwagon. Dunno if it’s the name, Guernsey or song?

Not disagreeing with you but Hawthorn during its bleak 1997-2007 decade was more often then not top 3 for club membership amongst the Victorian clubs.

It’s just that back then 30,000 members was a substantial number of members

 

[kranky al]

Met plenty of blues supporters in wa - never met a dees fan

 

[AstuteTiger]

Carlton by a mile.

Melbourne are last in Victoria.

Carlton are third behind Collingwood and Essendon.

Lol and both ess and coll behind Richmond with carl 4th

Please dont make comments when u have no idea. Melbourne are not last. North are!

 

[AstuteTiger]

They only thing clear there is that you are an absolute moron if you're using Herald Sun/Supercoach numbers to try make a point.

Haha totally agree, membership numbers and attendance they are the true dominant force. Forget all the other BS inc social media numbers.
And lets not forget the big doozy Morgan survey the biggest baloney out there and if anyone even half believes that rubbish needs their head read.

 

[gopies1981]

Lol and both ess and coll behind Richmond with carl 4th

Please dont make comments when u have no idea. Melbourne are not last. North are!

Wrong. Collingwood hold the top 5 biggest home and away attendance records of all time.

Collingwood hold the 6 biggest crowds of all time.

Collingwood are 7 million in front of Carlton, 7.4 in front of Essendon and 9.2 million in front of Richmond for all time gone and away attendance’s.

Collingwood have drawn more then 1 million people during the home and away season 21 times. Essendon have don’t this 15 times, Richmond only 5 times and Carlton 3 times.

Collingwood are the biggest Victorian club as per Roy Morgan poll and is the biggest afl club on social media with over 693,000 followers!!

With all this being equal Collingwood are the biggest then Essendon, Richmond and Carlton

What DAN26 is staying that according to fan surveys they have the smalles casual fan base even tho they have a bigger hard core fan base the North Melbourne, Western Bulldogs and St.kilda where they had plenty of home games last year where they drew 35,000 plus Melbourne fans.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Also find it strange that apparently Melbourne has the least supporters of any Vic club yet our crowds are regularly higher than North/Dogs/Saints in Melbourne.

I think most of our supporters are concentrated in an area that is closer to Melbourne CBD hence more likely to attend. Also the age demographic of our supporter base makes it more likely they will attend. Other clubs may have larger supporter bases but are more likely to be spread out throughout regional Victoria (a lingering effect from the zone days) and Australia.

 

[Davey33]

It's not 2000 anymore. Carlton get to play in Geelong these days. They've still got a bigger base than Melbourne but Tigers and Hawks would easily have Carlton covered now.

heard an interview with Cain Liddle (current Carlton CEO and former head of Richmond membership dept) and he actually said Carlton has something like a 20/40% (i dont remember which but it was a significant number)larger supporter base than Richmond. Which is obviously pretty amazing considering Richmond's membership numbers but his point was that it wasn't so long ago that Richmond did't have such great membership numbers and there's no reason the same couldn't happen at Carlton

 

[What else we can do]

heard an interview with Cain Liddle (current Carlton CEO and former head of Richmond membership dept) and he actually said Carlton has something like a 20/40% (i dont remember which but it was a significant number)larger supporter base than Richmond. Which is obviously pretty amazing considering Richmond's membership numbers but his point was that it wasn't so long ago that Richmond did't have such great membership numbers and there's no reason the same couldn't happen at Carlton

I have said before if you're looking at support base of the vic clubs australia wide it is Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon very similar just put Carlton above then the Tigers.

 

[Tiger Toffee]

Wrong. Collingwood hold the top 5 biggest home and away attendance records of all time.

Collingwood hold the 6 biggest crowds of all time.

Collingwood are 7 million in front of Carlton, 7.4 in front of Essendon and 9.2 million in front of Richmond for all time gone and away attendance’s.

Collingwood have drawn more then 1 million people during the home and away season 21 times. Essendon have don’t this 15 times, Richmond only 5 times and Carlton 3 times.

Collingwood are the biggest Victorian club as per Roy Morgan poll and is the biggest afl club on social media with over 693,000 followers!!

With all this being equal Collingwood are the biggest then Essendon, Richmond and Carlton

What DAN26 is staying that according to fan surveys they have the smalles casual fan base even tho they have a bigger hard core fan base the North Melbourne, Western Bulldogs and St.kilda where they had plenty of home games last year where they drew 35,000 plus Melbourne fans.

100,000+ members says Richmond is the biggest club in Victoria, when you get to 100k come and talk to us, until then jerk off over your Ray Morgan polls and social media platforms. Real fans put their hands in the pockets and pay up, casual fans say " oh collingwood i suppose put them "

 

[AstuteTiger]

Wrong. Collingwood hold the top 5 biggest home and away attendance records of all time.

Collingwood hold the 6 biggest crowds of all time.

Collingwood are 7 million in front of Carlton, 7.4 in front of Essendon and 9.2 million in front of Richmond for all time gone and away attendance’s.

Collingwood have drawn more then 1 million people during the home and away season 21 times. Essendon have don’t this 15 times, Richmond only 5 times and Carlton 3 times.

Collingwood are the biggest Victorian club as per Roy Morgan poll and is the biggest afl club on social media with over 693,000 followers!!

With all this being equal Collingwood are the biggest then Essendon, Richmond and Carlton

What DAN26 is staying that according to fan surveys they have the smalles casual fan base even tho they have a bigger hard core fan base the North Melbourne, Western Bulldogs and St.kilda where they had plenty of home games last year where they drew 35,000 plus Melbourne fans.

hahahahaha everything u say means what? we have been crap for 35 years and most of ur records have been in that time, dont say it hasnt
Now we have gone to another stratosphere with having some success. Their lies your answer pies, bombers have had success in last 35 years and reaped the rewards now we have some and u dont like to compere apples with apples as before you comparing apples to oranges or rotten tomatoes.
You guys have both won flags and played in a gazillion GF's so u really haven't been shit, ess of late has but not like Richmond for most of 35 years.
Trying to justify Roy Morgan sorry wont even go there its embarrassing you are embarrassing to even bring up roy morgan plus social media numbers but neglecting to mention the biggest and truest form of support a PAID UP MEMBERSHIP.

Having GWS and GC will bring down crowd averages, so Richmond have the 6th biggest of all time. Seriously dont be so one eyed, if for arguments sake no gws and no gc we would play a higher drawing team thus pushing us up to say top 3 or 4 in biggest home and away crowds. Also you can bang on about 1 million attendances etc again u reached nearly all these whilst we were shit dont try and deny it. Why haven't u got a bigger membership than us? why did we out number u in the prelim 60-40, the prelim is the purest day for footy goers and we dwarfed you, why> because we are bigger. If you were bigger you wouldve had more. Same as when we played the blues in 2013 EF, 95K and about 65K were tigers.

We played GWS 95K in 2017 and u played them 2018 and got what 72K? thats the size of a supporter base. The fixture can suit over 22 rounds and lets not beat around the bush pies have always had a cushy fixture. We dont play ess twice this year so that will hurt our attendances.

In order of biggest.

Richmond
Collingwood
Essendon
Carlton
Hawks
Melbourne
Geelong
Saints (could switch cats and saints around, when both up and about much of a muchness)
Bulldogs
North

 

[What else we can do]

hahahahaha everything u say means what? we have been crap for 35 years and most of ur records have been in that time, dont say it hasnt
Now we have gone to another stratosphere with having some success. Their lies your answer pies, bombers have had success in last 35 years and reaped the rewards now we have some and u dont like to compere apples with apples as before you comparing apples to oranges or rotten tomatoes.
You guys have both won flags and played in a gazillion GF's so u really haven't been shit, ess of late has but not like Richmond for most of 35 years.
Trying to justify Roy Morgan sorry wont even go there its embarrassing you are embarrassing.

Having GWS and GC will bring down crowd averages, so Richmond have the 6th biggest of all time. Seriously dont be so one eyed, if for arguments sake no gws and no gc we would play a higher drawing team thus pushing us up to say top 3 or 4 in biggest home and away crowds. Also you can bang on about 1 million attendances etc again u reached nearly all these whilst we were shit dont try and deny it. Why haven't u got a bigger membership than us? why did we out number u in the prelim 60-40, the prelim is the purest day for footy goers and we dwarfed you, why> because we are bigger. If you were bigger you wouldve had more. Same as when we played the blues in 2013 EF, 95K and about 65K were tigers.

We played GWS 95K in 2017 and u played them 2018 and got what 72K? thats the size of a supporter base. The fixture can suit over 22 rounds and lets not beat around the bush pies have always had a cushy fixture. We dont play ess twice this year so that will hurt our attendances.

In order of biggest.

Richmond
Collingwood
Essendon
Carlton
Hawks
Melbourne
Geelong
Saints (could switch cats and saints around, when both up and about much of a muchness)
Bulldogs
North

I agree re roy morgan and social media don't go there Hawthorn, Geelong and Swans not bigger than Richmond. Don't want to get personal I enjoy Gopies posts. I disagree about measuring support base on the Gws final any vic team has the ability to draw 80 to 90 thousand plus crowds. It was the final of a life time for the tigers just like it was for the Kangas when they had 90 thousand fans at 1974 grand final.

 

[AstuteTiger]

I agree re roy morgan and social media don't go there Hawthorn, Geelong and Swans not bigger than Richmond. Don't want to get personal I enjoy Gopies posts. I disagree about measuring support base on the Gws final any vic team has the ability to draw 80 to 90 thousand plus crowds. It was the final of a life time for the tigers just like it was for the Kangas when they had 90 thousand fans at 1974 grand final.

Glad we agree on roy morgan and social media numbers.
Gopies posts like a troll, his posts are borderline ludicrous. Richmond topped 3 of last 4 years in home and away attendances and you know what the troll would say oh the pies have been shit, oh well we can use that excuse to for last 35 years hence why pies have been above us, its simple logic to understand this but he simply ignores it.

Sorry so if we play GWS again in a final again and get 85-90K+ what will u say then? we are the only club in VFL/AFL history to have 7 straight finals games over 90K (2 of those involved gws and north in 2015 on a Sunday arvo). Really any vic team has the ability, so why did pies only get 72K last year V GWS
Remember we played finals in 2013, 14 and 15 and drew 90K and above for 2013 and 2015 as 2014 was at the AO

 

[What else we can do]

Glad we agree on roy morgan and social media numbers.
Gopies posts like a troll, his posts are borderline ludicrous. Richmond topped 3 of last 4 years in home and away attendances and you know what the troll would say oh the pies have been shit, oh well we can use that excuse to for last 35 years hence why pies have been above us, its simple logic to understand this but he simply ignores it.

Sorry so if we play GWS again in a final again and get 85-90K+ what will u say then? we are the only club in VFL/AFL history to have 7 straight finals games over 90K (2 of those involved gws and north in 2015 on a Sunday arvo). Really any vic team has the ability, so why did pies only get 72K last year V GWS
Remember we played finals in 2013, 14 and 15 and drew 90K and above for 2013 and 2015 as 2014 was at the AO

I remember 2013 well there were 35 to 40K blues fans albiet we finished 9th and scraped in after we beat port by a point the week before. So that combined with the fact you had much higher member numbers affected the crowd split. North had good representation in 2015 easy 30 to 35K Kangas. That leaves the Gws final like I said the final of a lifetime for the tigers and yes any vic team is capable of getting a crowd like that under similar circumstances. Like North in 74 and 75, Essendon in 83 blues in 86 (Bruce Doull farewell) Collingwood 1990 Cats 2007 etc..