Autopsy 2025 Rd 1 Most Embarrassing Loss in Years

[Stamos]

Walsh isn't half the player he was 2 years ago he has not improved or developed his game he is playing one out, selfish and looking through blinkers with every possession and has become a turnover merchant - he doesnt bring team mates into the game he doesn't make players around him better- he needs a recalibration real fast - in short form - no way is he playing like a pick 1 or anything close to it. So obvious not even worth arguing about - sadly.

This isn't true. He was great through the start of last year.
He clearly dropped off after Round 16, fitness/injuries caught up with him. And then Thursday was his first hit-out when most of the team was terrible.

But crazy to write him off and think he won't get back to his best.

 

[RAPPA]

Walsh isn't half the player he was 2 years ago he has not improved or developed his game he is playing one out, selfish and looking through blinkers with every possession and has become a turnover merchant - he doesnt bring team mates into the game he doesn't make players around him better- he needs a recalibration real fast - in short form - no way is he playing like a pick 1 or anything close to it. So obvious not even worth arguing about - sadly.

As for Charlie he will be on care and maintenance ( just like Walsh) forever - both these are n top 5 for salary from Carlton - one maybe you can afford - not two or three.

Have to agree. Walsh has become the dump kick specialist. Also tries to emulate Cripps by bulldozing through tackles, but lacks the strength and either gets pinged for HTB or dishes off a hospital handpass. Put aside the seduction of possession count and he has drifted since 2023.

My concern for Charlie is the willingness to compete 1 v 1. Too often he didn't want to jump for the mark and preyed on trying to get his opponent under the ball so it could go over the top and he could run onto it. The kicking for goal also become less reliable last year.

Both have issues / concerns with their bodies. We carry far too many players who are not durable.

 

[JustaBattler]

This isn't true. He was great through the start of last year.
He clearly dropped off after Round 16, fitness/injuries caught up with him. And then Thursday was his first hit-out when most of the team was terrible.

But crazy to write him off and think he won't get back to his best.

I haven't written him off- but he doesnt play with skill levels of a pick 1 - nowhere near it. He needs to spend more time thinking about making other blokes play and look better rather than try and do everything himself - same lesson Cripps has had to learn hopefully he is a quicker study. Leaders make other players look better ALL the time and go the X FACTOR only as a last resport- not a first resort - it is a team game.

 

[Stamos]

I haven't written him off- but he doesnt play with skill levels of a pick 1 - nowhere near it. He needs to spend more time thinking about making other blokes play and look better rather than try and do everything himself - same lesson Cripps has had to learn hopefully he is a quicker study. Leaders make other players look better ALL the time and go the X FACTOR only as a last resport- not a first resort - it is a team game.

I agree that these are things that he needs to improve on on his very recent form (last 10 games).

But that's not who he is as a player.
He's not 'half the player he was', going off of a first poor game this year.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Finished watching the game again. A few key points after trying to watch with a clear head.

1. McKay really let us down. Very ordinary display. Disappointing.
2. Our mistakes, directly costs us 8 goals. So many basic football errors.
3. Motlop and Doc weren’t the issue. Doc lacks touch and needs to start the games. Mots just couldn’t get the separation. Both will get better.
4. SoS is a bloody good footballer.
5. The players really didn’t expect to lose that game and played accordingly - until it was too late.
6. Umpiring was very one sided.
7. Our forward line……

 

[JustaBattler]

I agree that these are things that he needs to improve on on his very recent form (last 10 games).

But that's not who he is as a player.
He's not 'half the player he was', going off of a first poor game this year.

He isnt in the same class as some other mids in the game these days Stamos - broken backs after two opps will do that. As long as he can maintain his endurance, improve his all field awareness and connect better with his team mates that will be enough - but he wont be a match winner for us and two years ago playing finals he was that - a match winner.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Certainly dropped off towards the end of the year coming off no pre-season.

Was good in round 24 against the Saints (equal BOG).
Tiges in Round 16 (2nd behind Cripps).
He polled Coaches' Votes in 9 of his first 11 games.

He struggled on Thursday coming off no praccy matches no doubt. But it's more an issue of your memory than his impact last year.

He is a really poor kick of the footy. When he calls for it to deliver inside 50, I cringe.

No matter how much of the footy he gets, this is killing us.

 

[Stamos]

He isnt in the same class as some other mids in the game these days Stamos - broken backs after two opps will do that. As long as he can maintain his endurance, improve his all field awareness and connect better with his team mates that will be enough - but he wont be a match winner for us and two years ago playing finals he was that - a match winner.

This is what I don't agree with, unless Round 17 last year was the turning point of his career.
A match winner in finals, the only player to win the Garry Ayres without playing in a grand finals was 18 months ago.
Despite the ruined pre-season, he was starring when he came back into the team last year. After round 16, despite only playing 11 of 15 matches, he was sitting 7th in the Coaches' Award.

He undoubtedly dropped off after that.
But it's not like he's been broken for 2 years. It's been 10 games.

 

[Stamos]

He is a really poor kick of the footy. When he calls for it to deliver inside 50, I cringe.

No matter how much of the footy he gets, this is killing us.

When he's in poor form he doesn't use it well.
When he's in decent form he does.
People are blinded by his very recent games.

 

[Blue Pulse]

I’m just watching the replay and yes glutton for punishment but I really want to know what happened to dropping the ball rule. How many times can a player pick it up, drop it, pick it up and drop it again, all while being tackled and not get penalised?

Yes, it was umpired totally different to what they wanted and stated last year. 140 odd tackles and by memory only 2 were penalised. They let the game go which should have been an advantage to our bigger bodies as you have to adapt to the umpiring of the week and the conditions, we failed on both counts.

Player protection wasn't too high on their list either

 

[Tickedoff]

We need to let this go. If our players and the coaching staff are still over thinking and over analysing this as much as our fans and stans then we are in deep trouble. Time to move on

 

[Stamos]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldsun.com.au%2Fsport%2Fafl%2Fthe-numbers-which-show-sam-walshs-output-has-dropped-and-why-carlton-needs-him-firing%2Fnews-story%2F68951c95185b31f8aa2eaab19037422e&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=ULTRALOW-Segment-1-SCORE

archive didn't work for me (again). Anyone?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldsun.com.au%2Fsport%2Fafl%2Fthe-numbers-which-show-sam-walshs-output-has-dropped-and-why-carlton-needs-him-firing%2Fnews-story%2F68951c95185b31f8aa2eaab19037422e&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=ULTRALOW-Segment-1-SCORE

archive didn't work for me (again). Anyone?

TLDR - When Sam Walsh impacts forward of centre we win. When he doesn't we stink.

The gap between the two of these seems to always line up with his physical fitness re his back and his speed out of stoppage like we saw when he was 21 and in the back half of 2023.

Then poses the question whether missing 4 pre seasons in a row will allow him to play to the level we need him to.

 

[Stamos]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldsun.com.au%2Fsport%2Fafl%2Fthe-numbers-which-show-sam-walshs-output-has-dropped-and-why-carlton-needs-him-firing%2Fnews-story%2F68951c95185b31f8aa2eaab19037422e&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=ULTRALOW-Segment-1-SCORE

archive didn't work for me (again). Anyone?

So this is the headline on Hun / Aus / Code etc to click on

The warm-up disaster which sent Carlton spiralling​

Which was Charlie hurting himself prior to it all going to shit in the Giants game in Round 17

but then the headline for the article is:

The numbers which show Sam Walsh’s output has dropped and why Carlton needs him firing​

https://archive.md/4s5NP

 

[goreds]

We need to let this go. If our players and the coaching staff are still over thinking and over analysing this as much as our fans and stans then we are in deep trouble. Time to move on

Surely Tickedoff you know that bigfooty exists for this exact reason?? This portal is built on over thinking and over analysing...

Are you trying to end Chief little side hustle he has going on here??

Mods sort this out please...

 

[tarczonandjane]

That Peter Ryan article from the Age on positional changes we need to make is one of the most shocking things I’ve read in a long time. Not because of the moves he suggests.

But the analyst from an opposition club who basically says everybody knows how to beat Carlton and it is with pace over the back into the forward line.

That’s a severe indictment on our football club. Everybody knows how to beat us, and our club spent an entire offseason doing essentially nothing about it (save for drafting Jagga, who then did his acl). What a disaster!

 

[Blue since 72]

That Peter Ryan article from the Age on positional changes we need to make is one of the most shocking things I’ve read in a long time. Not because of the moves he suggests.

But the analyst from an opposition club who basically says everybody knows how to beat Carlton and it is with pace over the back into the forward line.

That’s a severe indictment on our football club. Everybody knows how to beat us, and our club spent an entire offseason doing essentially nothing about it (save for drafting Jagga, who then did his acl). What a disaster!

This is compounded further because we cannot keep the ball in our forward half due to shallow forward 50 entries.

shallow entries mean opposition half backs and mids are there to mop up out numbering at any given contest.

If you look at the GWS practise match a lot of our forward entries were deep, one of the reasons Kemp did so well in that game.

We don't have run and carry from our back half so we're often a kick further up the ground than we need to be.

 

[AT97]

So this is the headline on Hun / Aus / Code etc to click on

The warm-up disaster which sent Carlton spiralling​

Which was Charlie hurting himself prior to it all going to shit in the Giants game in Round 17

but then the headline for the article is:

The numbers which show Sam Walsh’s output has dropped and why Carlton needs him firing​

https://archive.md/4s5NP

“Sam Docherty made an irresistible case to be included against the Hawks…”

I found this comment a head scratcher.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

That Peter Ryan article from the Age on positional changes we need to make is one of the most shocking things I’ve read in a long time. Not because of the moves he suggests.

But the analyst from an opposition club who basically says everybody knows how to beat Carlton and it is with pace over the back into the forward line.

That’s a severe indictment on our football club. Everybody knows how to beat us, and our club spent an entire offseason doing essentially nothing about it (save for drafting Jagga, who then did his acl). What a disaster!

Pretty sure holding defensive shape behind the ball is aimed at holding teams rebound out the back.

It’s not that they haven’t noted it or trained it - they did it pretty well in practice match vs Giants.

Failed dismally against Tigers.

Seems to be more about discipline rather than habit at this stage.

 

[Stamos]

Pretty sure holding defensive shape behind the ball is aimed at holding teams rebound out the back.

It’s not that they haven’t noted it or trained it - they did it pretty well in practice match vs Giants.

Failed dismally against Tigers.

Seems to be more about discipline rather than habit at this stage.

It was solid in the first half at least though.
If you take away the defensive half turnovers, which are basically impossible to defend against, they're down to maybe 8 goals total, which is a good effort by the backline. Our bigger issue was how we used the ball and our fumbles.

 

[Gethelred]

That Peter Ryan article from the Age on positional changes we need to make is one of the most shocking things I’ve read in a long time. Not because of the moves he suggests.

But the analyst from an opposition club who basically says everybody knows how to beat Carlton and it is with pace over the back into the forward line.

That’s a severe indictment on our football club. Everybody knows how to beat us, and our club spent an entire offseason doing essentially nothing about it (save for drafting Jagga, who then did his acl). What a disaster!

I am reminded of the uselessness of the oft repeated saying in AFL circles, 'don't get beaten by what you know.'

Shane Warne in his early days used to do at least one if not multiple clinics, in which he'd show people what he could bowl and how he did it. He did it everywhere he went, but it didn't seem to help anyone play him all that much.

Plenty of people 'knew' how to beat Hawthorn during their three premiership run; shut down their short play, forcing them long and down the line as after Buddy and Hale retired they didn't have options for contested marking down the line, and work through Gibson and place a pacy FF on Lake who could beat him on the lead. Legspeed was also pretty effective against them if you could win the clearances, as is evident by Richmond's multiple victories against them in that patch, too. But knowing how to beat them is genuinely half the battle; you've got to have the cattle to do it, gotta turn up on the day, got to have either the gameplan embedded or be very good at changing those gameplans on the fly.

Plenty of teams 'knew' how to defeat the Bulldogs in 2016. Plenty of teams 'knew' how to defeat Richmond between 2018 and 2020. Knowing how to beat teams does not equal being able to consistently beat them.

I am just so, so sick of AFL analysts treating the sport like it's basketball, or soccer, or like it's rugby or gridiron. Footy is different.

Knowing how to beat someone does not entail that it's doable. It's trite, vapid, insipid analysis posing as sagest insight.

It's popcorn masquerading as caviar.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

That Peter Ryan article from the Age on positional changes we need to make is one of the most shocking things I’ve read in a long time. Not because of the moves he suggests.

But the analyst from an opposition club who basically says everybody knows how to beat Carlton and it is with pace over the back into the forward line.

That’s a severe indictment on our football club. Everybody knows how to beat us, and our club spent an entire offseason doing essentially nothing about it (save for drafting Jagga, who then did his acl). What a disaster!

Honestly I think if you asked an analyst how to beat all 18 clubs they would say, squeeze their defence up and beat them out the back.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

Pretty sure holding defensive shape behind the ball is aimed at holding teams rebound out the back.

It’s not that they haven’t noted it or trained it - they did it pretty well in practice match vs Giants.

Failed dismally against Tigers.

Seems to be more about discipline rather than habit at this stage.

They failed dismally against the Tigers because of the amount and position of their terrible turnovers due to poor skill errors.

How many goals did the Tigers kick that weren't a direct result of an undefendable turnover - McGovern's, Docherty's (both his missed handball and dropped mark), Camporeale's, Haynes & Cowan's definitely were all so bad and in such terrible field position that there 'was absolutely no way to recover before the goal was kicked - that is at least 6 out of 13 goals that a "defensive shape" could do absolutely nothing about.

 

[BigFrizz36]

“Sam Docherty made an irresistible case to be included against the Hawks…”

I found this comment a head scratcher.

Well he had 14 touches, 2 shots on goal (1 poster and one miss) and had 290 metres gained in one quarter.

Made one bad blue which cost us a goal but from memory his initial give in that chain was good and our other player's fumble invited pressure which Doc succumbed to.

Clearly he is struggling with his kicking but his ability to get to the right spots and get the ball were spot on.

 

[Tickedoff]

Oh gawd no, I'd never try and hustle/muscle in on a quagmire of sadness and hopelessness, my shoulders can only carry so much weight, I still havent come to terms with Roger Federer retiring yet........