Autopsy 2024 Rd 20 Loss to Port - Top 4 in jeopardy

[Gethelred]

ps. Why am I still a 'Debutant' ? I've been coming in here for 9 years

Post number.

 

[Soapy V]

Post number.

Injury prone?

 

[Thrawn]

It's a really really unthreatening forward line. Take out the two big guns, and one was out, it would become the weakest forward line in the game.

I'm sure if you took the two best forwards from every team, their forward line would be mediocre.

That said, we had Fog and Owies with Charlie playing without Harry for a long stretch last year, and how did we go? We won something like 6 on the trot, and against top four sides during that run. That it's not working as well tells me it's more system and coaching than personnel.

 

[AceAndy]

For 20 years we have all the excuses in the book for losing. Truth is there are plenty of sore teams and sore players actively playing in the competition and plenty of teams being asked to win after short breaks and they do. Yes it is a disadvantage but really good sides win games with handicaps.

Truth is we looked slow and short. We are already a slow side but we looked even slower. Our forward and backline looked short. We are badly lacking runners in defence and our smaller forwards were toothless. Our onball group was again poor. We haven't got the speed around the ball to bring pressure or run and carry the ball. Our up and back speed is also too slow to produce really strong defensive structures AND good fast attacking forward plays.

I thought our coaching group also had a stinker. We had good a good number of midfielders in the side and once again we failed to use high rotations. Our coaching group has been really poor when it comes to putting good numbers through the middle of the ground the entire time Voss has been in charge. This should be a fundamental of our side that we rotate our mids, keep them fresh and hence finish games strongly. Kennedy and Cerra weren't really used that much in the middle.

We keep burning our mids out like this then it's our coaching who is responsible for poor finishes and tired players. How we could go into a game with excess mids and not rotate them well is beyond me.

The other part is our lack of out of the box thinking. Voss and his team are rigid thinkers. When they do experiment and change players positions it rarely works. Williams is a tick. Cincotta half a tick. Young forward wasn't crazy but not far off it. It became obvious early that Kemp was struggling on his opponent. Kemp needed to go forward and Young to defence really early on when it was obvious. Not when the game was dead.

Young forward was ok but it became very obvious he was being used as a decoy, this is when the opposition took advantage. You just can not do that, if you play non-threatening forward and decoy forwards, opposition defences will punish you for it and they did. We had to use Young and get him in dangerous positions.

Cottrell to a wing instead of Binns. I'm not calling this one out but many will. Cottrell was again poor on a wing. Cottrell is very limited. No physicality and very poor footy IQ. His defensive work is also poor. Lets not see this again.

Cerra to half back, nah. Play him middle and forward. Cincotta is an experienced half back.

I would definitely be on the lookout for an assistant coach who can bring some new ideas to the coaching group. Adam Simpson please!

As for our onball structure. Defence and pressure clearly are not part of our plans. How often did we leave two lose Port players forward of most stoppages, giving them an easy out and forward run? Our stoppage structures have been unbalanced and garbage all season. A new midfield coach would breathe a breath of fresh air into this team.

Disposals, Inside 50s, ruck, clearance, uncontested possession. Well beaten here. It all reads that our intensity around the contests, stoppages and our run is down.

Forward Line

Outside of Charlie and Harry there is very little quality and class. Cottrell and Fogarty are VFL level players. Young forward wasn't ideal but they way we used him was amaeture hour. Decoy forwards don't work in the AFL unless the opposition players and coach are blind.

Curnow was good but was a lone hand. Kennedy played the best he possibly could but is not much of a forward. Owies I thought was ok, he had a crack. Motlop could be fitter, he was ok. Fogarty is a VFL player who has ok games against bottom sides and is totally non-threatening. Cincotta is a tagger who has gone quiet offensively.

It's a really really unthreatening forward line. Take out the two big guns, and one was out, it would become the weakest forward line in the game.

Too many defensive smalls who lack leg speed and have no offensive game. Cottrell will be back next week and this does not help us one little bit. He is a VFL quality player that for some strange reason the coach rates.


Midfield

Just when you thought our midfield could not get any slower it has. A team full of mids yet our midfield rotations looked to be pretty low. Cripps and Walsh were good but outside of them there was SFA. I suppose Hewett had an ok game. But we were soundly beaten. What worries me is that teams run away from us too easily. The forward run and carry teams generate against us this last month and a half is scary. It's unsustainable. We are getting torched. Our midfield structures and lack of leg speed, inability to chase and close down opposition players is killing us. Pittonet struggled, he wasn't much good. Carroll hardly touched it. Hollands looks good in there. But the energy, speed and intensity around the ball was rubbish. Forget the short break and sore players excuse, it's been rubbish for a month and a half.

Hollands on the wing, I thought he was solid. Cottrell is a very limited player and wing is a position he can't play.

Back Line

Thought it stood up under a lot of pressure to a point. Weitering is in good form at the moment. Newman has been out of form but looked solid this game. McGovern was really good, proved he is a player who we can not do without. Saad the same, we can't do without him either. Kemp was rubbish. Dropped a crucial mark. His spoiling is really weak. Forget the undersized thing for a moment. We had a guy named Glenn Manton who at 185cm would play on resting rucks and fullback at times and just punch the ball away all day. Sometimes it's not just size it's just poor spoiling ability. Cerra was mediocre in defence. Better than last week but it's an obvious makeshift position. Guy has probable never played in the backline. Cowan is a player who I thought could have been omitted but he was good. He's going to be a good player for us.

It's going to be a battle just to make finals. Currently we are a mid table side and not at the good end of that. We need to improve a lot to get back to top 4 quality.

Great analysis gbatman I am not sure Cripps and Walsh were good last night but other than that cant diasagree with anything you have posted

 

[Just Kreuzing]

if we finish top 4 and lose first week, 2nd week will be our home game.

Win that and go interstate for a PF again…..
Lose that and it would be a fail after sitting clearly in 2nd a few weeks ago

 

[Ezayyak]

I'm not saying it this to gloss over the last month but we played late Sunday afternoon and followed it up on a Friday night. It wasn't like we were outclassed all night. We were in total control at half time.

Watching the players from midway through the 3rd till the end they had no run. Zero. Cripps, who is in the best form of his career looked as slow as a Mack truck and his ball handling was pretty bad. They were clearly fatigued. In the last 15 minutes there was zero run. Nothing. Watching at the ground players had hands on hips behind the play everywhere in the second half.

It is ridiculous that a team this late into the season is playing late Sunday then Friday night. Throw in taking out McKay, TDK and Acres it was a recipe for disaster.

 

[gbatman]

I'm sure if you took the two best forwards from every team, their forward line would be mediocre.

That said, we had Fog and Owies with Charlie playing without Harry for a long stretch last year, and how did we go? We won something like 6 on the trot, and against top four sides during that run. That it's not working as well tells me it's more system and coaching than personnel.

We also got some consistency our of Martin and Motlop who are genuine threatening forward. Silvagni was therabouts as well who is also a natural forward. We carry 3 guys in our forward line who probably only kick goals every second week and go missing more often than not. Williams has been a loss for us as he was scoring and setting up scores.

If we had Motlop, Martin, Williams and Silvagni fit we would have a forward line that wouldn't need Harry and Charlie to kick bulk goals to win. They are all class players who would worry their opponents. Injuries have taken a toll here.

Our ball movement is hurting our forwards but we carry some really weak forwards at times.

Our firepower was extremely low in this game.

 

[Juddrockz]

We are too slow in the middle. The injured Walsh isn't getting it done ATM and he's pretty much all we have in terms of legspeed. Crippa, Hewett, Cerra, Kennedy and Elijah to a lesser extent just don't have the tow required. Hence if we lose the clearances in any match we are cactus barring any bad luck. The opposition mids just cut us up once they get it to the outside. Likewise if we turn the ball over. And our players know this so we've gone into our shell in terms of fluent ball movement. I think the GWS game really scarred us mentally and we have zero confidence at the moment. Need to turn it around pronto before it's season over.

On last night I thought Kennedy was exceptional but we have a few players in at the moment that just don't cut it IMO. Ollie Hollands I'm looking at you. Young goes without saying. Cerra obviously worth his spot in the side but what has happened to him? From elite to sub par in the space of 6 months.

For me Walsh is really really struggling with the new rule change and is getting pinged HTB far too often.

 

[bourbons]

Weird game in the context of the last month. Thought we looked a lot better with our team defense and system, and brought the required pressure for the most part (Port to their credit did as well), but we get destroyed in clearance.

Not gonna win many if we can't at least break even in clearances, and without checking I'd say vs Richmond would be the last game where we clearly dominated that area. Supposed to be our 1 wood but sure not looking like it at the moment - which doesn't leave much else, still no real plan B. Seem to have lost that bit of our identity (again ).

I wonder how sustainable that game system/plan is, gotta be pretty taxing.

 

[Soapy V]

We also got some consistency our of Martin and Motlop who are genuine threatening forward. Silvagni was therabouts as well who is also a natural forward. We carry 3 guys in our forward line who probably only kick goals every second week and go missing more often than not. Williams has been a loss for us as he was scoring and setting up scores.

If we had Motlop, Martin, Williams and Silvagni fit we would have a forward line that wouldn't need Harry and Charlie to kick bulk goals to win. They are all class players who would worry their opponents. Injuries have taken a toll here.

Our ball movement is hurting our forwards but we carry some really weak forwards at times.

Our firepower was extremely low in this game.

We also moved Docherty into the middle. Not quick but quicker than others and a much better ball user. Really improved our midfield mix and helped Walsh & Cerra

Massive loss this year

 

[norway blue]

1000% agree. Makes an absolute mockery of the “NO PASSENGERS” slogan from a few years back.
And we continue to play our stars when clearly injured and unfit, instead if building depth by rewarding those in the VFL. What happened to ‘Next man up’?

Bins in for acres. Non selection didn’t make sense. !


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[GoBlues!]

ps. Why am I still a 'Debutant' ? I've been coming in here for 9 years

C’mon Moon, keep at it and string a few more good posts together.

The selectors will eventually take notice of your form and elevate you to the senior list….

 

[DangerousD]

Yeah sorry meant his 1st year was 2016, so he's been on our playing list for 8 years.

9 years mate

 

[BigBreakfast]

Very disappointing loss but, 5 day break hurts, as did no Harry and the early sub

So sluggish, particularly in the second half

Time to smash the Pies Pendle party next week

Onwards and upwards

 

[Benaly28]

Feel like this theory comes up a lot when a team near the top starts struggling. No point firing in finals if we miss out on a top-four spot in the meantime.

Not sure what this heavy training load does.

Why would you jeopardise your season just to get some heavier training in?

Just doesn’t make sense.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[DangerousD]

... I mean, I feel like you've both gotten what I was getting at - stop allowing yourself to be a punching bag, and ****ing stand up for yourself - and missed the point - that I really don't like the 'If you can, take someone out!' thuggishness that Clarkson coaches with. It ruins young men on and off the field both in the sides he coaches and the sides he doesn't; I've opined on what the hardening affect encouraging violence has on young men before on this forum - at the same time.

It's not 'doing what it takes to win' to go the knuckle, because it's a clear secondary prerogative. It doesn't appear on the scoreboard, doesn't keep you in the game unless you're good enough to win anyway. All it does is make your opponent's day worse and potentially derails their year. I accept that they don't have to care about us having a good time; I reject the notion that gives them carte blanche to seek to hurt our players to the point of injury.

It's not the 80's anymore.

No, what I mean is that we need to be more willing to get our hands dirty by going through them. If one of them roughs you up or starts to tackle before the ball is in possession, elbow him right square in the jaw. If he throws a jumper punch at you, sling him into the deck when you get an opportunity. If he's going to try and obstruct your run, you were given forearms, elbows and knees for a reason.

You don't have to start it, but at present we're refusing to end it.

I’m not advocating for going the knuckle or taking someone out, or trying to injure someone, more in line with what you’re saying.

You can encourage physicality, make the opposition fight for everything and make an opponent think twice without turning to violence and I don’t think we are doing much of it.

Not sure if it’s because it’s been coached out or discouraged or we just haven’t picked the mongrel players.

 

[gbatman]

I'd love our midfield to just be able to put pressure on. Give the opposition no time and tackle them to death at times. Exactly what Sydney did to us and Port did at moments during this game.

The sad thing is, when we don't get it we are one of the worst teams there is. We are so heavily reliant on winning the ball. When the opposition get it they have time and they often exit the stoppage running forward.

We have no closing speed. Our structures are rubbish.

I said it last year. I will say it again. Our midfield needs a refresh. Our recruiting for midfielders has neglected pace, closing speed, tackling and pressure. We need a couple of fresh recruits in there.

 

[DirtyLeeds]

History has it that nobody wins from 4th ... and 3rd isn't much better
Playing Sydney at the SCG is like playing Brisbane at the GABBA or Port at AO.
Not sure about Freo at OO ... but you get the picture.
Lose the first final and we get another Interstater at their home ground.
It's praying for more than one miracle if we lose 2nd spot ... or fall out of top 4.

I never figured this is Carlton's year with all the B-graders in our team.
We need to plug some gaping holes if we are to become a serious contender for a flag
A fast strong defender to help Weiters ... a tough fast mid to help Crippa and Walsh ... and a gun small forward is necessary to snag a flag imho. I don't want to have to rely on luck and the rub of the green in each final.

ps. Why am I still a 'Debutant' ? I've been coming in here for 9 years

Moon this place is all about the numbers, just look at who's in charge, big numbers equals big influence (especially if you're a Saints Hater!!).....

 

[DirtyLeeds]

Harry Lemmey is not ready yet, will get pushed around just like O Hollands, we have nothing in our reserves, no depth, no talls, nothing other than injury prone players or skinny guys, Voss keeps going to the same injury ridden players who can't last 5 minutes in the seniors before getting injured or play one AFL game and then injured for the 6 weeks, what a joke.

Because of the previous years drafting they don't exist! Voss has no control over who came before him, and limited influence for whom came during his first year of tenure. Fact. He's dealing with someone else's needs, not the current crop....

 

[No1Suspect]

Very disappointing loss but, 5 day break hurts, as did no Harry and the early sub

So sluggish, particularly in the second half

Time to smash the Pies Pendle party next week

Onwards and upwards

I just dunno how a 5 day break is a thing when there is 3 sometimes 4 days to play.

 

[RedFury]

Loving the thread title change

 

[Sneeky]

**** this season and all the injuries. We had nothing left in the whole second half. No burst, no spark, no energy. A 5 day turnaround compared to Port's 7 is ridiculous at this stage of the season.

I was critical of players during the game, but this was a collective flop. The scheduling was unfair.

Brayshaw brainwashing everyone. We played Saturday night, you played Sunday arvo. That's not 2 days difference, let alone port having to travel for the game last night also. The gap between games is negligible, Carlton hadn't travelled for 3 weeks compared to port travelling twice

 

[Thrawn]

Great thread title change!

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Brayshaw brainwashing everyone. We played Saturday night, you played Sunday arvo. That's not 2 days difference, let alone port having to travel for the game last night also. The gap between games is negligible, Carlton hadn't travelled for 3 weeks compared to port travelling twice

Thanks. That's already been pointed out a few times but a few more doesn't hurt. Regardless ... last game one round and first game the next is pretty rare. I'm not sure travelling negates a day of recovery either.

 

[gab213]

Injury prone?

Hmmm, is it Cunners?, he's been around for 9 years too