Unofficial Preview Changes & Discussion Round 3 v Magpies @ Gabba Easter Thursday.

[dlanod]

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[Elixuh]

Absolutely. Feels like guys like Berry, Rayner and even Dev are all unsure of their roles and aren't playing their natural style of football. Got to keep it simple for some players.

Yep. I edited my thought above.

I can see the rationale behind JL with Lachie out - that specialist ball winner / clearance / in tight distributor attributes. Even though perhaps some of those skills are on the decline. But if you play JL you have to surround him with other prospects who balance out JLs weaknesses.

 

[questeds]

Could Berry be a full time tagger? He certainly played a good role against Oliver in that final a few years back.

Berry has done Sweet FA since that one half, and has been riding it's success ever since. His shoulders are f*"ked and I don't think he would be as effective as DevRob in a tagging role. But he's useless in defence so he really can't stay there. Parking him on the wing seems to be the least negative position to put him, and since he can't be dropped I guess that's the best spot for him.

 

[M Malice]

Jarrod Berry

7

Jarrod Berry

Age

26

Ht

192cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

8.9

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.1

5star

CL

2.9

4star

D

10.6

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

6.2

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.8

3star

comes across as such a wonderful human being when you see him in the media or around training sessions BUT yer I have gone off him as a footballer, he has been ordinary for a long time now, throws in a good game/patch way too rarely.

He is seriously lucky to be still playing senior footy, I hope he proves me wrong Thursday night with a BOG performance.

 

[Section 5]

To be fair it's a bit hard for Cam to become a dominant CBA player when he gets no consistent time in the middle. It's the same challenge Dev is currently facing.

Now we're in a position where we need another mid to stand up and we seem so non committal to any prospect to the point we literally reverted to JL again.

Agree to the bolded.
In my opinion it's a coaching thing over the last 4 years that we have been able to get away with by winning games.
Like Neale out Mathieson in, did not hurt us at all.
Neale/Dunkley out Lyons in last year was okay but we still had Ashcroft then.
Once Ashcroft was gone, we were far to slow in the middle.
Replacing Ashcroft with slower type midfielders that could not find enough of the ball.
Tagging and/or run with roles that did not help us really.
We have Dunkley that does the tag/run with role, but he gets enough of the ball to counter that role.
Having more than one doing this role is counterproductive in my opinion.

The club need to find a place for some pace or ball getters.
Tunstill the logical one at present for me but i agree with you, he (or anyone else) can't have a hybrid role.

I would also be wary of having more than one of Tunstill, Lyons, Dev in the starting lineup.
I will assume we get Neale back this week.
My Mids would be Neale (Rov), Dunkley (ruck/Rov) + one of McCluggage and Bailey (center)
Tunstill relief for those guys.
I would bring in Reville to add some pace wing/forward. Probably won't happen but something has to change without Kiddy & McKenna.

The other issue is an old one a third tall or Rayner
Going with Rayner is the safe option but would not mind seeing Lloyd fill Gardiners role forward.
Payne could also get a recall forward or back by the looks of things. I prefer the safe defense option for him.

There are lots the coaches could do but will they change their like for like usual replacement with experience getting the nod over youth.

Outs: McKenna
Doubtful: Gardiner
Should be replaced for this game: Lyons, Dev, Lohmann
On shaky ground: Lester, Berry

 

[twhowler]

If berry plays half back, could anyone mount a serious argument that fagan has even a modicum of tactical acumen?

Pies being written off EVERYWHERE. Can’t win the flag, no hunger, fly lost them. Of course it happens before we play them! Absolutely expecting a loss for us and flag hopes over.

Punt alert - i know a few of us have an emotional hedge on the oppo sometimes. I backed carlton an hour before the match as i got nervous late. Backed the dockers 2 days before. Just got on the pies having read the monday smash up on them. Hope to god i am wrong but feels ominous.

 

[Berrygood]

Could Berry be a full time tagger? He certainly played a good role against Oliver in that final a few years back.

I think he can. I think he plays much better when given a role on someone. He's got the size to battle Oliver/Petracca on the inside and he's got the run or should have to shadow Sidebottom or the like. I'd give him that role on Sidebottom Thursday. One job, all game. Wherever he goes.

 

[SpecialBruce]

Berry has done Sweet FA since that one half, and has been riding it's success ever since. His shoulders are f*"ked and I don't think he would be as effective as DevRob in a tagging role. But he's useless in defence so he really can't stay there. Parking him on the wing seems to be the least negative position to put him, and since he can't be dropped I guess that's the best spot for him.

Yeah I know. I only pose the tagging question because Fagan is going to keep him in the squad regardless, so there needs to be a role for him that he can't **** up!

 

[SpecialBruce]

Jarrod Berry comes across as such a wonderful human being when you see him in the media or around training sessions BUT yer I have gone off him as a footballer, he has been ordinary for a long time now, throws in a good game/patch way too rarely.

He is seriously lucky to be still playing senior footy, I hope he proves me wrong Thursday night with a BOG performance.

Very nice person. Wondeful human being, but because you are a good person, it doesn't make you good at football. The romantic period is over with a few of these players. They wouldn't get a game with Collingwood, who are the reigning premiers, so why are they getting a game with us?

 

[McIvor]

Jarrod Berry comes across as such a wonderful human being when you see him in the media or around training sessions BUT yer I have gone off him as a footballer, he has been ordinary for a long time now, throws in a good game/patch way too rarely.

He is seriously lucky to be still playing senior footy, I hope he proves me wrong Thursday night with a BOG performance.

That’s where I sit too - my knock on him has never been personal for reasons you mentioned.

 

[McIvor]

For the doubters and haters; Froggy isn’t being dropped anytime soon



#Lester200

 

[Clarkythelion]

I think he can. I think he plays much better when given a role on someone. He's got the size to battle Oliver/Petracca on the inside and he's got the run or should have to shadow Sidebottom or the like. I'd give him that role on Sidebottom Thursday. One job, all game. Wherever he goes.

I think over his career Berry's best games has been as a tagger, there was one in Perth where he tagged Fyfe, another against the Blues where he cleaned up Cripps, although both games were a few years back now. When he first arrived there was talk of him as a future leader, don't know what happened there.

 

[Kickback Flip]

If Rayner plays forward, he needs to kick a bag. One goal in his last four senior games isn't good enough.

 

[briztoon]

 

[McIvor]

If Rayner plays forward, he needs to kick a bag. One goal in his last four senior games isn't good enough.

Of the number one picks currently in the game, you’d take every single one before Rayner and in fact if you were listing them in order of best to worst, Rayner would be a very easy choice as last. Furthermore, even all of the ones taken after Rayner with the exception of Cadman and Reid who will very soon, have far surpassed Rayner. The fact the club has still yet to work out his best position is concerning and unlike all others, Rayner can’t be relied on or leads like the others do.

2010 David Swallow Suns
2011 Jonathon Patton Giants*
2012 Lachie Whitfield Giants
2013 Tom Boyd Giants*
2014 Paddy McCartin Saints*
2015 Jacob Weitering Blues
2016 Andrew McGrath Bombers
2017 Cameron Rayner Lions
2018 Sam Walsh Blues
2019 Matt Rowell Suns
2020 Jamara Ugle-Hagan Bulldogs
2021 Jason Horne-Francis Kangaroos
2022 Aaron Cadman Giants
2023 Harley Reid Eagles

 

[briztoon]

Of the number one picks currently in the game, you’d take every single one before Rayner and in fact if you were listing them in order of best to worst, Rayner would be a very easy choice as last. Furthermore, even all of the ones taken after Rayner with the exception of Cadman and Reid who will very soon, have far surpassed Rayner. The fact the club has still yet to work out his best position is concerning and unlike all others, Rayner can’t be relied on or leads like the others do.

2010 David Swallow Suns
2011 Jonathon Patton Giants*
2012 Lachie Whitfield Giants
2013 Tom Boyd Giants*
2014 Paddy McCartin Saints*
2015 Jacob Weitering Blues
2016 Andrew McGrath Bombers
2017 Cameron Rayner Lions
2018 Sam Walsh Blues
2019 Matt Rowell Suns
2020 Jamara Ugle-Hagan Bulldogs
2021 Jason Horne-Francis Kangaroos
2022 Aaron Cadman Giants
2023 Harley Reid Eagles

Really, you’d have Mr d!ck pick Jono Patton above Rayner?

Tom Boyd won his team a premiership, then disappeared from the game due to mental health.

Otherwise you are correct.

 

[McIvor]

Really, you’d have Mr d!ck pick Jono Patton above Rayner?

Tom Boyd won his team a premiership, then disappeared from the game due to mental health.

Otherwise you are correct.

You missed the word “currently” in my post.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Of the number one picks currently in the game, you’d take every single one before Rayner and in fact if you were listing them in order of best to worst, Rayner would be a very easy choice as last. Furthermore, even all of the ones taken after Rayner with the exception of Cadman and Reid who will very soon, have far surpassed Rayner. The fact the club has still yet to work out his best position is concerning and unlike all others, Rayner can’t be relied on or leads like the others do.

2010 David Swallow Suns
2011 Jonathon Patton Giants*
2012 Lachie Whitfield Giants
2013 Tom Boyd Giants*
2014 Paddy McCartin Saints*
2015 Jacob Weitering Blues
2016 Andrew McGrath Bombers
2017 Cameron Rayner Lions
2018 Sam Walsh Blues
2019 Matt Rowell Suns
2020 Jamara Ugle-Hagan Bulldogs
2021 Jason Horne-Francis Kangaroos
2022 Aaron Cadman Giants
2023 Harley Reid Eagles

What's the relevance of this? Why waste your time looking into this?

Is there some rule I don't know about where if you don't like your number 1 pick you can return it for another?

 

[davemc_lions]

Absolutely. Feels like guys like Berry, Rayner and even Dev are all unsure of their roles and aren't playing their natural style of football. Got to keep it simple for some players.

Problem is JL can only play one spot really.
Even with his lack of pace JL puts in 100% so you get that 20 plus disposals every week.
Problem other teams mids just running off him if he cannot tackle them.
Funny he is also one of our better tacklers although that is not hard.
Which makes it interesting if you play him or not

I agree Berry, Bailey, Rayner and Dev need more minutes.. Although all 4 are up and down all the time.
Is that because they moved around or just have lots of bad games/moments

 

[M Malice]

What's the relevance of this? Why waste your time looking into this?

You just described the essence of Big Footy perfectly in a dozen words NB, bravo.

 

[McIvor]

What's the relevance of this? Why waste your time looking into this?

Is there some rule I don't know about where if you don't like your number 1 pick you can return it for another?

Why not?

What’s the relevance of posting 75% of the posts in a game day thread then like you do?

Why people are so sensitive about Rayner is beyond me.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Why not?

What’s the relevance of posting 75% of the posts in a game day thread then like you do?

Why people are so sensitive about Rayner is beyond me.

Do we need reminding he was 5th in the B&F last year?

 

[Happy_Neale]

Of the number one picks currently in the game, you’d take every single one before Rayner and in fact if you were listing them in order of best to worst, Rayner would be a very easy choice as last. Furthermore, even all of the ones taken after Rayner with the exception of Cadman and Reid who will very soon, have far surpassed Rayner. The fact the club has still yet to work out his best position is concerning and unlike all others, Rayner can’t be relied on or leads like the others do.

2010 David Swallow Suns
2011 Jonathon Patton Giants*
2012 Lachie Whitfield Giants
2013 Tom Boyd Giants*
2014 Paddy McCartin Saints*
2015 Jacob Weitering Blues
2016 Andrew McGrath Bombers
2017 Cameron Rayner Lions
2018 Sam Walsh Blues
2019 Matt Rowell Suns
2020 Jamara Ugle-Hagan Bulldogs
2021 Jason Horne-Francis Kangaroos
2022 Aaron Cadman Giants
2023 Harley Reid Eagles

So Cam is an uninspiring number one pick yet you would take David Swallow ahead of him?

 

[Pride of lions]

My thinking with Cam is if we thought he was up to extended midfield minutes we certainly would have done it this year.

I mean we've played Lyons.

I really doubt Cam has the tank or application to be a permanent midfielder but I can understand people pushing for that the way we've been going.

I'm not against trying anything when you're losing , my personal view is that his capacities on here are overrated but not against giving it a go so we know.

Lyons is slow but at least he tries. Rayner knows he doesn’t have the tank so he slackens off and lets his man run off him through the centre corridor which opens up our backline. He should only play forward of centre imo.

 

[McIvor]

So Cam is an uninspiring number one pick yet you would take David Swallow ahead of him?

Swallow has done way more than Rayner, not to mention a fantastic leader of the Suns, but that’s just me.

 

[martinson]

It's not Cam's fault he was pick No.1.

Unfortunately for him it means unreasonable expectations have been placed upon him and likewise he's been a bit entitled to his spot and is (imo) a lazy footballer who probably thought his talent takes him further than what it does.

If he was pick 35 we'd be saying well he wasn't a bad get so let's get the most out of him and find a role where he can carve a career. And maybe he would've had to work harder to hold his spot in the team and get fitter than what had been the case for his first 3 years.

He's never going to be what some people seem to imagine. I don't think he works near hard enough to have extended midfield minutes but if that's what we think he could do there is no better time than now to throw him to the wolves and if he fails we know he needs a specific role forward oF M/F.

As for 5th in the B/F that's a complete anomaly to me and looking at a couple of the guys who finished behind him just nonsense voting from whoever did it. Not the first time you get some strange votes from clubland as anyone who's been around footy clubs for a long time will attest.

But it was his best year at the club so far.