Unofficial Preview Changes & Discussion Round 3 v Magpies @ Gabba Easter Thursday.

[dlanod]

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[McIvor]

Out: Oscar, Gardiner, Lyons, Lester
In: Fort, Tunstill, Neale, Payne

Lester Andrews Starcevich
Willmot Payne Ah Chee

Clugg Dunkley Answerth

McCarthy Daniher Bailey
Cameron Hipwood Berry

Robertson Berry Fletcher Lohmann Tunstill

You have Lester as an out (why anyone is calling for Lester’s omission is beyond me) but have then named hi in a back pocket.

 

[CarterS]

We've gone from having one of the best midfields in the comp to looking like one of the worst! What has happened. Some of the players clearance numbers from the weekend are terrible. We have a lot receivers I think.

 

[briztoon]

That is ignoring the fact that he has run, found space and delivered the ball well in possession chains and to players inside 50 last week and yesterday. The replays are available.

He found space when the opposition turned the ball over further up the field, because his man had run off him to support the opposition attack, and Lyons hadn't even bothered to trail the play.

Watch the replay yourself. Lyons didn't find space by running harder than his direct opposition. You're seeing what you want to see, and not actually watching the game.

 

[Balony_pony16]

You have Lester as an out (why anyone is calling for Lester’s omission is beyond me) but have then named hi in a back pocket.

The fact Lester’s name is even mentioned shows the mess of our list management

 

[3KZ is Football]

He found space when the opposition turned the ball over further up the field, because his man had run off him to support the opposition attack, and Lyons hadn't even bothered to trail the play.

Watch the replay yourself. Lyons didn't find space by running harder than his direct opposition. You're seeing what you want to see, and not actually watching the game.

There’s a bit of that going around.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Different eras M Malice. Impossible to compare.

Fitzroy had absolute freak guns , Pert ,Roos ,Wilson ,Quinlan just to start but probably fell away in the 13-20 spots.

I think Fitzroy had more A+ Graders and also more B-to C Graders.

And to win flags you can't have any passengers.

I agree with this assessment M Malice - martinson is spot on. Fitzroy had a faster midfield and used to cut sides to ribbons. Also we had one of the all time great mobile goal kicking ruckman in Matt Rendell. He would have MURDERED Oscar McInerney. Micky Conlan was our Charlie Cameron, but to be honest, when he was having a dirty day, he always seemed to find a way to make an impact. He was also a vastly superior kick and he was more able to break crash and crash through. Micky only needed a quarter to win a game.

I always thought that the Fitzroy side during that era just lacked an extra gun defender or two. Pert, Serafini and Roos were superstars but they never really had any A-Graders to support them. Honourable mentions to Chris Smith, Chris Hansen, Neville Taylor and Graeme Hinchin. What they did have were players who tried their guts out and got the best out of themselves. We were also competing against ‘once in a generation’ teams Carlton (Three Flags), Hawthorn (Two Flags) and Essendon (Two Flags) during the years in question. Richmond also won a flag in 1980. The competition was HOT and it is worth remembering, we only had a Top 5 finals system.

This was Fitzroy’s most convincing win during the period in question. I rate this above the 1979 Record Score against Melbourne, because when we beat North Melbourne at the Junction Oval in 1983, they were on top of the ladder.







As far as coaches go, I would rank them
1. David Parkin (4 Premierships)
2. Robert Walls (1 Premiership)
3. Bill Stephen
4. Chris Fagan

Walls and Parkin were great tacticians and they developed some champion footballers. They also got the best out of their players. Bill Stephen was a quiet man, but shrewd. He promoted an aggressive and attacking game style that stunned opponents. He was also deeply respected by the Fitzroy Community. All three of them could be brutal at selection.

Fagan is miles off.

 

[M Malice]

I agree with this assessment M Malice - martinson is spot on. Fitzroy had a faster midfield and used to cut sides to ribbons. I always thought that the Fitzroy side during that era just lacked an extra gun defender or two. Pert, Serafini and Roos were superstars but they never really had any A-Graders to support them. Honourable mentions to Chris Smith, Chris Hansen, Neville Taylor and Graeme Hinchin. What they did have were players who tried their guts out and got the best out of themselves. We were also competing against ‘once in a generation’ teams Carlton (Three Flags), Hawthorn (Two Flags) and Essendon (Two Flags) during the years in question. Richmond also won a flag in 1980. The competition was HOT and it is worth remembering, we only had a Top 5 finals system.

As far as coaches go, I would rank them
1. David Parkin (4 Premierships)
2. Robert Walls (1 Premiership)
3. Bill Stephen
4. Chris Fagan

Walls and Parkin were great tacticians and they developed some champion footballers. They also got the best out of their players. Bill Stephen was a quiet man, but shrewd. He promoted an aggressive and attacking game style that stunned opponents. He was also deeply respected by the Fitzroy Community. All three of them could be brutal at selection.

Fagan is miles off.

Thanks for the reply 3KZ, good to know some Lions history, I just googled when Fitzroy won their last Flag(at the top level), a War time Premiership in 1944, before that 1922.

Did you start supporting the "Brisbane Lions" as soon as the merger happened or did it take a while to win you over?

 

[3KZ is Football]

Thanks for the reply 3KZ, good to know some Lions history, I just googled when Fitzroy won their last Flag(at the top level), a War time Premiership in 1944, before that 1922.

Did you start supporting the "Brisbane Lions" as soon as the merger happened or did it take a while to win you over?

Straight away. We had a family meeting of sorts and it was unanimous. Kevin Murray was supporting the merged team and if it was good enough for the ‘Bulldog’ it was good enough for us. The only holdout was my youngest brother who played Under 19’s at Hawthorn and decided to go with the Hawks.

 

[dlanod]

We've gone from having one of the best midfields in the comp to looking like one of the worst! What has happened. Some of the players clearance numbers from the weekend are terrible. We have a lot receivers I think.

Well we did have the reigning Brownlow medallist out...

 

[Nunez]

Well we did have the reigning Brownlow medallist out...

I think it's less to do with him being out, and more to do with his replacement no longer being an AFL standard player. JL gives it his all, but really not up to it sadly.

 

[M Malice]

It is amazing how the perception and narrative re a team can change so dramatically over such a short period of time, suddenly 2 games on from a 4 point loss in a Grand Final and being most pundits favourite for the flag in 2024 >

1- Our list is in bad shape.
2- We have no game plan, our coach is shite.
3- Our players have no heart.
4- Our recruitment staff are hopeless.

I am expecting the knives to come out for our high performance and medical/rehab staff soon because of some injury and fitness concerns.

 

[3KZ is Football]

It is amazing how the perception and narrative re a team can change so dramatically over such a short period of time, suddenly 2 games on from a 4 point loss in a Grand Final and being most pundits favourite for the flag in 2024 >

1- Our list is in bad shape.
2- We have no game plan, our coach is shite.
3- Our players have no heart.
4- Our recruitment staff are hopeless.

I am expecting the knives to come out for our high performance and medical/rehab staff soon because of some injury and fitness concerns.

Danny Daly?

 

[brisbanelions]

I agree with this assessment M Malice - martinson is spot on. Fitzroy had a faster midfield and used to cut sides to ribbons. Also we had one of the all time great mobile goal kicking ruckman in Matt Rendell. He would have MURDERED Oscar McInerney. Micky Conlan was our Charlie Cameron, but to be honest, when he was having a dirty day, he always seemed to find a way to make an impact. Micky only needed a quarter to win a game.

I always thought that the Fitzroy side during that era just lacked an extra gun defender or two. Pert, Serafini and Roos were superstars but they never really had any A-Graders to support them. Honourable mentions to Chris Smith, Chris Hansen, Neville Taylor and Graeme Hinchin. What they did have were players who tried their guts out and got the best out of themselves. We were also competing against ‘once in a generation’ teams Carlton (Three Flags), Hawthorn (Two Flags) and Essendon (Two Flags) during the years in question. Richmond also won a flag in 1980. The competition was HOT and it is worth remembering, we only had a Top 5 finals system.

This was Fitzroy’s most convincing win during the period in question. I rate this above the 1979 Record Score against Melbourne, because when we beat North Melbourne at the Junction Oval in 1983, they were on top of the ladder.







As far as coaches go, I would rank them
1. David Parkin (4 Premierships)
2. Robert Walls (1 Premiership)
3. Bill Stephen
4. Chris Fagan

Walls and Parkin were great tacticians and they developed some champion footballers. They also got the best out of their players. Bill Stephen was a quiet man, but shrewd. He promoted an aggressive and attacking game style that stunned opponents. He was also deeply respected by the Fitzroy Community. All three of them could be brutal at selection.

Fagan is miles off.

You forgot the Melbourne win . At the time the highest score ever in the vfl. Went to that game
Tactically 1 Robert Walls
And 2) michael Nunan who came over to my parents place eloquent,great football brain,insightful gave a masterclass on list management and coaching and his brutal honesty,WOW.He was absolutely brilliant to listen to. Super impressed
They are the two that stuck out.
Bill Stephens i was too young, but heard a lot of good things about him

 

[martinson]

You forgot the Melbourne win . At the time the highest score ever in the vfl. Went to that game
Tactically 1 Robert Walls
And 2) michael Nunan who came over to my parents place eloquent,great football brain,insightful gave a masterclass on list management and coaching. He was absolutely brilliant to listen to. Super impressed
They are the two that stuck out.
Bill Stephens i was too young, but heard a lot of good things about him

Billy was one of nature's gentlemen. Very kind to me when I was a boy and he was staying at the same guest house as my parents over the summer break. Just took time for everybody. Very much in the Fagan mould in terms of how he coached and taught young players but in essence he played footy as a mean back pocket so he did whatever had to be done to try to improve the team.

 

[On the quiet]

You have Lester as an out (why anyone is calling for Lester’s omission is beyond me) but have then named hi in a back pocket.

Not that he should be dropped on his performances, but did you watch carefully the 3rd Q he is involved with 3 of Freo's goals.

 

[SizeMatters]

Looking at the stats of the game I'm surprised some of the metrics were 'close' compared to the eye ball test. Dockers had more of the ball, dominated clearances, a lot more tackles and had a much much better rebound 50 conversion rate than the Lions. We just didn't turn up for a contest. Our forwards provided **** all defensive presence and put a lot of stress on our one paced midfield to cover Freos more active mids. Over and over again the ease of which freo were to transition out of their D50 and force our lazy and/or slow mids like JL, Bailey, Rayner to defend and obviously fail was a big red warning sign against the Lions midfield mix.

We got dominated in the contest by a back flanker ffs.

 

[martinson]

Looking at the stats of the game I'm surprised some of the metrics were 'close' compared to the eye ball test. Dockers had more of the ball, dominated clearances, a lot more tackles and had a much much better rebound 50 conversion rate than the Lions. We just didn't turn up for a contest. Our forwards provided * all defensive presence and put a lot of stress on our one paced midfield to cover Freos more active mids. Over and over again the ease of which freo were to transition out of their D50 and force our lazy and/or slow mids like JL, Bailey, Rayner to defend and obviously fail was a big red warning sign against the Lions midfield mix.

We got dominated in the contest by a back flanker ffs.

Sadly that's all pretty much correct. We basically got gifted a 3 goal start as well.

So plenty to talk about in our review to bring us up to scratch against the Pies.

 

[3KZ is Football]

You forgot the Melbourne win . At the time the highest score ever in the vfl. Went to that game
Tactically 1 Robert Walls
And 2) michael Nunan who came over to my parents place eloquent,great football brain,insightful gave a masterclass on list management and coaching and his brutal honesty,WOW.He was absolutely brilliant to listen to. Super impressed
They are the two that stuck out.
Bill Stephens i was too young, but heard a lot of good things about him

I mentioned it just above the clips.

 

[Berrygood]

I hope we use the opportunity to play some players in the ressies to build a bit of match fitness and get a clearer picture. Dev, Berry, Big O, Lohmann, Answerth, Payne could certainly use another run. There's probably a lot of other that need it too. Give Doedee a run, limited minutes, just to see where he's at. A big watch on Prior, Tunstill and Fort, no real games for any of them yet so we need to see if they are ready to step up. I'm a bit reluctant to nominate replacements until we've got some game time into those suggested from the ressies or given some more game time to those who need it from the firsts. A very important game rnd 1 of the vfl, an opportunity for fringe to step up and for those underperforming rusty first graders to improve. I'll keep my powder dry at the moment, won't make any calls yet. I am however very open to dropping a few like O, Berry, etc but we've gotta have replacements up for the challenge and ready to take it.

 

[peasantbruh69]

Allowing our opponents to score 8 goals in quick succession is completely unacceptable. Once our opponent gains momentum it seems like we are too slow to adjust. Our leadership, both on field and off, need to find some answers.

Regarding personnel changes, I would like to see some more run in the team. Having 3 players (Lyons, Rayner, Bailey) going through the guts who are unwilling/unable to do the defensive running, will not win us a flag.

In: Payne, Prior, Neale, Fort, Lohmann, Doedee (if fit)
Out: Gardiner, McKenna, Lyons, McInerney, Berry, Lester

Starcevich Andrews Doedee/Lester
Zorko Payne Wilmot
Ah Chee McCluggage Fletcher
McCarthy Daniher Lohmann
Rayner Hipwood Cameron
Fort Dunkley Neale
Answerth, Bailey, Robertson, Prior
Berry

 

[mpal6]

I think we need a debut, ready or not.

Some fresh faces might bring some enthusiasm back into the team. It's looking a bit worn out, jaded, confidence shot atm.

Youth would be a welcome addition, they'll be fearless and can add a fair bit of excitement.

Come on down Logan Morris !

 

[martinson]

I'd be very surprised if Fagan dropped Oscar even though he has a viable replacement that he could probably live with.

And that everyone on here seems in agreement about.

I think the dropped chest mark 20m out did it for me. In the under 9's you're told to wrap your arms around a chest mark coming straight to you. Putting your hands out in front of you is a big no no. No idea what was going on there.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I'd be very surprised if Fagan dropped Oscar even though he has a viable replacement that he could probably live with.

And that everyone on here seems in agreement about.

I think the dropped chest mark 20m out did it for me. In the under 9's you're told to wrap your arms around a chest mark coming straight to you. Putting your hands out in front of you is a big no no. No idea what was going on there.

He played ok after that dropped chest mark.

We were put at a large disadvantage in the GF with Cameron and Cox working over Oscar so you’d hope we learned from that and I’d consider playing Fort and Oscar

 

[briztoon]

It is amazing how the perception and narrative re a team can change so dramatically over such a short period of time, suddenly 2 games on from a 4 point loss in a Grand Final and being most pundits favourite for the flag in 2024 >

Perception and narrative where?

BigFooty or the Media.

1- Our list is in bad shape.

It’s not in bad shape, but we have some key players out with long term injury. And we’re rushing key players back early from soft tissue injury or surgery, with predictable results of them pulling up lame.

Secondly, 3 of our 4 most important players are hitting the wrong side of 30, while the ex captain is just about done.

There is definitely a clock on our window, especially if the next tier of players aren’t capable of stepping up a rung or two.

2- We have no game plan, our coach is shite.

It’s not that we have no game plan, but the one we have relies so heavily on a small group of individuals, and if they are missing or not performing (or no longer capable) to the level required, we don’t appear to have other players of stepping up.

Luke Hodge has said for years, that we rely on individual brilliance more than system to win games.

3- Our players have no heart.

Who’s saying that?

It certainly looks like quite a few are lacking confidence.

4- Our recruitment staff are hopeless.

They’re not. That’s definitely driven by just the one individual here.

I am expecting the knives to come out for our high performance and medical/rehab staff soon because of some injury and fitness concerns.

Neale and McKenna coming back obviously underdone deserves to be questioned. Not sure who made that call.

 

[DevRoboGun]

Despite all the negative sentiment, we win this game and our season is back on track instantly with North in rd 4 and confidence regained. All it takes is a win, if we lose however...