Strategy Changes & Pre-match Discussion - GRAND FINAL vs. Brisbane MCG, 2:30pm Sat 30/09

[Vicky Park]

Is Ginnivan into the 22 because you like him, or because you genuinely think he can play well on the big stage?

I don't see it, but I would love to be proven wrong if he could do an Anzac day of last year.

Ginni loves the big stage, and could thrive in it. While a kid who’s been in and out of the side all year could be overawed by the occasion - that’s not Jack. He doesn’t lack confidence, and even as a sub he’s made an impact when he comes on. He should be in the 22.

 

[No SPIN]

It's a toss up but i'm not convinced going in small on a dry fast-track is the way to go.

The issue of being too small is:
a) if we can't quickly transition the ball from our back-half bc of the strong defensive structure of the oppo (Giants were so disciplined at getting high numbers behind the ball defensively and not allowing us to transition apart from early 1Q and 3Q burst). The good news is that Brisbane aren't as disciplined / selfless on defensive transition so we 'should' be able to move the ball back-to-front more efficiently
b) if we can't quickly transition the ball from our back-half bc of the manic pressure that typifies how grand finals play out

If either of these play-out then it's likely we see plenty of long release kicks and/or hack kicks forward. With the ball in the air you need to be able to compete and bring the ball to ground otherwise Hill, McCreery, Ginni/Lippa et el won't get a look in.

Agree - it’s no coincidence that in both finals 2 Talls have been critical when the pressure was on - look at the third QTR in the Prelim.
Long kick - Mark to McStay Goal
Long kick - McStsy Mark - pass to Bobby for a goal
Long Kick to Goal Sq: McStay/ Brodie in pack, crumb to Beau - goal.
Kick to Brodie falls short, gathers - goal.
And then in the final QTR - Long kick -Cox mark - goal,

Would playing small have produced this result - I doubt it.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Is this your way of saying you think Frampton is the better option?

It’s my way of saying that Grand Final selection is all about picking players who are the least likely to be bunny-in-the-headlights on the big stage.

Adams - if fit, yes
Frampton - yes
Noble - yes

Any others, No.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I genuinely don’t see a world where Krueger is picked. The risk vs reward just isn’t there.

The reward is a premiership and we are a KPF down in a game where KPFs are valued. Risk vs reward is there for me. Why have these people on our list if we are not going to use them?

 

[Chrispiesssss]

I don’t want to mess with our defence. Our best hope is to keep this game very low scoring especially with the loss of McStay.

I doubt we can kick more than 80 points. Hence, I’d bring in either Adams or Ginni for McStay.

Hopefully the extra runner will force us to play a bit more explosive and not long bomb into our 50.

 

[upnsmoke]

What w

My big concern about going small by not replacing McStay with either Krueger or Howe is that under pressure we will predictably bomb it in to our only visible marking targets in Checkers and Cox, who will be double-teamed and have no chance of taking a mark. Andrews and Co will rebound it out with ease.

I think we need a genuine third tall marking target if for no other reason than to split the Lions defence and give Checkers, Cox and Elliott a decent chance of creating some space and separation to take a few marks.

So I would play Howe forward or bring in Krueger, who has done well as a forward in VFL this season and kicked 2.2 against Brisbane at AFL level last season.

Frampton is not a forward. It’s defence or nothing for him, IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

What was Pies win lose record when McStay didn't play?

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I’m leaning more toward Frampton.
He can pretend he’s a defender and spoil Andrews from spoiling.
In all seriousness he makes the most sense to me.
Our forward line works best with another tall alongside Checkers and Fly likes two rucks.
Frampton allows us to retain that structure.

Kreuger allows us to even more retain our structure. When Frampton was last in the side we couldn't omit him quickly enough. How quickly we forget. Meanwhile, Kreuger played a decent run of games at VFL level. He is our best bet.

 

[Bussie]

While I think of it, how good must Oleg Markov

37

Oleg Markov

Age

28

Ht

188cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

4.8

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.4

3star

MG

228.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

15.4

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

4.2

4star

M

6.0

5star

T

2.0

4star

MG

295.2

5star

be feeling?

Krueger can't come in, he'll go down injured in the first 30 seconds.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

From your own post #888
“The other reason that you might bring in Frampton is as a ruck and relive the glory days of Coxy as our full forward”

Which is just ONE of many flexibility options I pointed out, and you did not address above.
I think you’re trying to have a bit each way on Frampton.
Which is fine.

He seems to be having a bit each way on several people. Reading his posts is like sitting inside his head watching his brain flip flop from one scenario to another.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

To all the BF experts who believe they have a great knowledge of the game - When was the last time a team with a short forward line won the premiership? (we did in 1990)

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

Ginni can’t be left to rot as the sub, imagine the electricity when he jags a goal.

We are going to need him.

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

To all the BF experts who believe they have a great knowledge of the game - When was the last time a team with a short forward line won the premiership? (we did in 1990)

Probably 2017

 

[Cory]

While I think of it, how good must Oleg Markov be feeling?

Krueger can't come in, he'll go down injured in the first 30 seconds.

He’ll be injured before he runs into the ground

 

[Pendles!]

The reward is a premiership and we are a KPF down in a game where KPFs are valued. Risk vs reward is there for me. Why have these people on our list if we are not going to use them?

Good kpf are valued. This guy has barely played all year. Much higher risk of him being a fish out of water than the chance of that reward. Walker had 1 touch in 2003 when he replaced Rocca. Could easily see that again.

 

[jathanas]

It’s not the 1 v 1 that worries me jathanas. It’s quaynor naturally wanting to compete in the air and kill ball whilst Cameron sits at the back like the seagull he is waiting for the ball..

No one is doubting IQs 1 on 1 and air ability.

It's the fact that Cameron has literally averaged like 4 goals against him.... by playing behind him and staying grounded and running to space instead.... Lions put the ball behind Cameron and he chases it away from IQ who is not as fast as Cameron....

I think Fagan's strategy is to neutralise IQ by making Cameron stay away from marking contests and be a sneaky goal kicker... which has worked well so far.


Remove IQ from Cameron and let someone else like Markov or Noble stay grounded with Cameron.

Fair assessment, I wasn't aware that Cameron has kicked that many against us with IQ as his direct opponent.

That reluctance to go tight 1:1 describes how the team have defended this year.

Moore and Howe take similar risks by running off their man and then get caught out.

Perhaps Cameron warrants closer attention and a tighter opponent is warranted.

 

[sr36]

To all the BF experts who believe they have a great knowledge of the game - When was the last time a team with a short forward line won the premiership? (we did in 1990)

Tigers first flag.

But our forward line won't actually be that short. Checkers and Howe/WHE are very similar size to Kennedy and Darling and then we'll also have a ruck up forward for a fair bit of the game.

 

[swoop42]

Markov to Cameron.

Quaynor if it goes wrong.

A smother to the head by Maynard if that fails.

 

[Snakerz]

What are the odds that Adams can get through 3/4 of a grand final 2 weeks after a minor hamstring?

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

Moving pretty well for 8/9 days post strain. I reckon he plays

You’ll note he’s going 70%

It’s the high speed running that is the issue on a string

Not saying he won’t be available as none of us know the scan details intimately, but post hamstring players can run at a reasonably light intensity pretty much a week later.

 

[Vicky Park]

We’ve spent two years winning close and tough games. We’ve often come from behind. We’ve absorbed pressure. We’ve held on by minuscule amounts to win against the best in the league - as recently as Friday night.

Fly has taught us this to enable us to succeed in September. It’s now in our DNA, and the boys know how to do it.

While I was wobbly after the PF, and traumatised by memories of other hard fought PFs which resulted in SFA, I’m more confident as each day passes.

 

[domus]

The reward is a premiership and we are a KPF down in a game where KPFs are valued. Risk vs reward is there for me. Why have these people on our list if we are not going to use them?

Frampton is the better option as he usually still standing at the completion of a game with both shoulders intact. That places him at the head of the pack. Why did we chase him if not for this very circumstance? He was never going to be the number one key forward or defender, he was our back up plan, our break glass in time of emergency player and he has done a fair job whenever he has been called upon.

 

[Sweeetleftfoot]

Think it will just be

Out: mcstay

In: Adams

Tinkering with the backline is a huge no.

 

[domus]

You’ll note he’s going 70%

It’s the high speed running that is the issue on a string

Not saying he won’t be available as none of us know the scan details intimately, but post hamstring players can run at a reasonably light intensity pretty much a week later.

He was moving so smoothly at at least 50% a week ago and that has given me the confidence he will be selected.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Frampton is the better option as he usually still standing at the completion of a game with both shoulders intact. That places him at the head of the pack. Why did we chase him if not for this very circumstance? He was never going to be the number one key forward or defender, he was our back up plan, our break glass in time of emergency player and he has done a fair job whenever he has been called upon.

We chased him to use him as a key defender, and that hasn't really worked. This time we are looking at using him as a key forward, and that definitely hasn't worked.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

We’ve spent two years winning close and tough games. We’ve often come from behind. We’ve absorbed pressure. We’ve held on by minuscule amounts to win against the best in the league - as recently as Friday night.

Fly has taught us this to enable us to succeed in September. It’s now in our DNA, and the boys know how to do it.

While I was wobbly after the PF, and traumatised by memories of other hard fought PFs which resulted in SFA, I’m more confident as each day passes.

I thought your Geelong-supporting husband had hacked your account the other night VP

Welcome back!