Strategy Changes & Pre-match Discussion - GRAND FINAL vs. Brisbane MCG, 2:30pm Sat 30/09

[Moore of the Same]

That flexibility is fools gold.

And playing Kreuger based on no significant form or reliability is any better? Can't see it.

 

[sr36]

And playing Kreuger based on no significant form or reliability is any better? Can't see it.

I don't think we'll go with either of them TBH. Either Howe or WHE to play forward and a bit more forward time for our rucks. Bring Noble into the 23.

 

[Cory]

 

[Mick F]

Markov as a leading full forward, just thinking out loud

If so, an option. Two/three goals from a forward nowadays is a good return. Noble takes his place in defence.

 

[lyfsux]

So far I reckon frampton rucking and releasing cox to play forward with the three big guys rotating as an option. *ing he'll mcstay, it looked like no contact was even made man

Looking at the replay Buckley's shoulder hit his knee as he was falling down

 

[IlovethePies]

You just don't do anything to change that backline. It has repeatedly been a magnificent, game winning combo that is working with an unprecedented level of synergy.
I want to keep Howe back predominantly - if he does spend some time forward, then he should be replaced with Noble, who has been an integral part of this magnificent defence and knows like the back of his hand how to play his role.
I would be going into this game with a small forward line. Ginnivan comes into the 22.
If Taylor is fit - i have confidence that Jared Wade will call this correctly - then he comes in, and Lipinski out.
Noble as sub.
We make sure not to bomb the ball into F50, but lower the eyes and kick on a low trajectory.
Cox to go into the forward line to assist Checkers for height at times for a change up.
If we need to change the forward line structure and add more height, we make the sub and Howe can go forward. Johnny Noble then goes to defence.
If Tay does not get up, then I think we have to keep Lipinski, and demand that he should play a full game like his 3rd quarter against GWS. Ginnivan comes into the 22 and Noble still sub.
So I think we will see Noble into the 23 and definitely will get some time on the ground.

 

[Moore of the Same]

I don't think we'll go with either of them TBH. Either Howe or WHE to play forward and a bit more forward time for our rucks. Bring Noble into the 23.

I'm inclined to agree.

 

[Mick F]

Frampton could replace Moore at FB - Moore to CHF/FF, interchanging with Howe as 3rd back. That would give Andrews a mobile player that would be a lot more difficult to match up on, means that Frampton could follow Daniher into the ruck (allowing Cameron and Cox to ensure that the Big O does a lot of running through the day). Would also like to see Neale get a bit of shoulder action like the Lions gave Nick Riewoldt when he was winged.

I’ve heard worse ideas.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

If Freddy has a good chance to knock himself out and 2 Lions in a 3 way collision early in the first, just play him

Problem is he'd knock himself out & take out a few of our players as well.

I'm gobsmacked so many people are advocating a guy who has played in 2 games this year resulting in 7 disposals & no goals. Fly has not gone to Krueger when we needed talls throughout the year. I cannot fathom he would now rely on him for the most important game of the year.

 

[sr36]

I'm inclined to agree.

If Kreugs was a chance they would have given him a look in when Cox was dropped. Frampton was poor as a forward when they gave him a chance.

Bringing Frampton in to play other roles just makes those areas weaker - even if Howe plays forward.

Unless Fly goes really small up forward. It's gotta be Howe or WHE up forward.

 

[hellfire]

After reading suggestions for Pendlebury or Markov at full forward and Bobby Hill to play in defence on Cameron (in a GF no less), I’m just praying for something conventional. Either that or playing Elliott at FB on Daniher.

 

[Anzacday]

I’m leaning more toward Frampton.
He can pretend he’s a defender and spoil Andrews from spoiling.
In all seriousness he makes the most sense to me.
Our forward line works best with another tall alongside Checkers and Fly likes two rucks.
Frampton allows us to retain that structure.

 

[Pendles!]

After reading suggestions for Pendlebury or Markov at full forward and Bobby Hill to play in defence on Cameron (in a GF no less), I’m just praying for something conventional. Either that or playing Elliott at FB on Daniher.

Pendlebury is gonna win another norm in the guts.

 

[NMBB]

and they will need to generate their own momentum somewhat. They need to be 100% motivated for 4 qtrs.

More than 100% motivation is required to win the granny - the following help:

Iron will

Belief

Persistence

Backbone

Grit

Nerve

Courage

Tenacity

Guts

etc

Our boys can do it- they know the best supporters are with them

Never freakin give up - every contest is war

 

[Magnanimous]

Freakish accomplishment. Most of them good games too.
He's been one of the most underated players of the last decade.

We also got DeGoey from pick 5 off them for Beams if I'm not mistaken.

Any luck these two beasts can be key reason why we deny them the flag next weekend.

from my Delorean

 

[unplugged]

I'm 32 pages behind because I opened this thread, legged it home and went on a family holiday as soon as we woke up. Just got a ticket

I reckon we have them covered. Only because of finals pressure and the fact it's at the MCG. We basically didn't defend against them a month ago and they scored 110+ but we scored 100 ourselves despite them trying.

On that basis I expect we can hit 100 again but keep them to 60 like we have everyone else.

Gut feels only.

McStay out is huge. But Frampton in as a forward or a role shift, or Kreuger in as a high risk potentially high reward.

Lots of big calls this week re Kreuger, Noble, Ginnivan and Frampton.

Lipinski safe as houses. Lifted after a few shaky moments the other night.

 

[Gaben]

Moving pretty well for 8/9 days post strain. I reckon he plays

 

[sam_e]

That flexibility is fools gold.

a) I'm hoping we don't go with a ruck as a full time forward - it's a possible option, but it's not a good one.

b) we don't need Frampton in the team to shift Howe forward. Brissy only play two tall forwards with one of them rucking for a chunk of the game. Frampton into the defence means we play either him or Murphy on one of their super slick smalls. I don't see why you'd add him to our defence. It's not like having Howe there to zone off a small to intercept and then use the footy with penetration. Frampton is really unlikely to exploit the mismatch to our advantage. It's just a dumb mismatch with Brissy being more likely to benefit from it

Yep that's the point that most are missing. If Brisbane don't play Gunston then there's no decent match-up for Howe down back nor Frampton.

Moore > Daniher
Murphy > Hipwood
Howe or WHE > Ah Chee
Rayner > Maynard
Markov > Cameron
IQ > Bailey

So in theory, you could move Howe forward (without bringing in Frampton) to play a negating role on Andrews. In round 23, however, when Howe did this quite successfully, he was partnered up forward with both Mihocek AND McStay (albeit Cox started as sub). So this would play out as Mihocek, Howe and one of the rucks as KPFs.

If you do bring in Frampton then, for mine, he is a straight swap for McStay and he plays the negating role on Andrews ..but with explicit instruction to lead up the ground (and we need to use him as a hit-up target), bring the ball to ground at all costs and generally apply physical pressure in all aerial contests.

There's not a chance in hell i'd consider Kreuger given his track record with injuries, inability to control his body or how he enters contests. Under the intense heat of a GF i'd have even less trust in his ability to get through the game (see Anzac day earlier this year)

Kreuger as a 24yo has played 2 senior games (2021) at Geelong mostly down back and 7 (2022/23) at the Pies as a forward, for a career return of 4.3 goals. He hasn't played a senior game since round 7 and in his last 5 starts for the Pies, has averaged <25% TOG, mostly due to in-game injury. His recent vfl form has been ok'ish but i can't remember a single game where he hasn't been hampered / hindered or treated for his suspect shoulders and/or concussion.

Frampton as a 26yo has played 24 senior games (2018/22) at Pt Adel and Adel, mostly as a forward and 2nd ruck, and 15 at the Pies, mostly down back and ruck, kicking 19.18 goals along the way. His last game was round 24 against the Bombers.

Clearly neither options are ideal but I can't realistically have Kreuger in the mix any which way you slice it.

 

[JuniorB]

I watched the King's Birthday game recently and WHE played forward in that game (at times) he had lots of changes to get into the game and just didn't compete like a forward and didn't take his chances - WHE as an attacking forward is a no for me, like the idea of playing a defensive forward on Coleman - maybe that's the role for WHE or Lippa.

JFN might be suitable for that role, if we are bringing someone in.
We know he can kick goals too - he's nailed a couple of rippers this year.

 

[mwhop]

Mihocek is going to have to be the big banana now
The question is who best enables him to do that effectively, (while also providing good forward pressure)
So I'd suggest it's more about body positioning and smarts than it is about goal scoring and marking.
Still don't know who the best option is

 

[Football God]

I hope at the grand final parade the magpie army brings out the slow collllllingggggwooooooddddd chant out when they give the microphone to the Brisbane captain just like 2010.

Put the fear into them. Be rowdy. Be vile.

 

[sr36]

Yep that's the point that most are missing. If Brisbane don't play Gunston then there's no decent match-up for Howe down back nor Frampton.

Moore > Daniher
Murphy > Hipwood
Howe or WHE > Ah Chee
Rayner > Maynard
Markov > Cameron
IQ > Bailey

So in theory, you could move Howe forward (without bringing in Frampton) to play a negating role on Andrews. In round 23, however, when Howe did this quite successfully, he was partnered up forward with both Mihocek AND McStay (albeit Cox started as sub). So this would play out as Mihocek, Howe and one of the rucks as KPFs.

If you do bring in Frampton then, for mine, he is a straight swap for McStay and he plays the negating role on Andrews ..but with explicit instruction to lead up the ground (and we need to use him as a hit-up target), bring the ball to ground at all costs and generally apply physical pressure in all aerial contests.

There's not a chance in hell i'd consider Kreuger given his track record with injuries, inability to control his body or how he enters contests. Under the intense heat of a GF i'd have even less trust in his ability to get through the game (see Anzac day earlier this year)

Kreuger as a 24yo has played 2 senior games (2021) at Geelong mostly down back and 7 (2022/23) at the Pies as a forward, for a career return of 4.3 goals. He hasn't played a senior game since round 7 and in his last 5 starts for the Pies, has averaged <25% TOG, mostly due to in-game injury. His recent vfl form has been ok'ish but i can't remember a single game where he hasn't been hampered / hindered or treated for his suspect shoulders and/or concussion.

Frampton as a 26yo has played 24 senior games (2018/22) at Pt Adel and Adel, mostly as a forward and 2nd ruck, and 15 at the Pies, mostly down back and ruck, kicking 19.18 goals along the way. His last game was round 24 against the Bombers.

Clearly neither options are ideal but I can't realistically have Kreuger in the mix any which way you slice it.

The more I think about it the more I think it's just WHE or Howe forward. Then it gets interesting as we may need an extra defender, so does Noble come in or do our mids chop out in defence and what happens regarding Adams, Ginni and Lippa.

 

[swoop42]

Not much love for Ginni.

Personally I have him in the 22 ahead of Lipinski if we look to beat Brisbane with a smaller forward line and then it becomes a discussion of whether Noble/Adams demotes him again.

If Lipinski's primary role has been to negate the influence of an opposition half back I don't feel he's got the wheels to cover either McKenna or Coleman.

Neither does Ginni but Beau, WHE, Hill might and with them possibly needing to sacrifice their offensive games somewhat to clamp down on the above we need to bolster our avenues to goal.

Regardless of whether Ginni is in the 22/23 we need IMO to do a better job of getting players front and centre as opportunities again went begging against GWS.

On a fine dry day I feel this is even more critical as you expect the ball to bounce higher and truer and if we're not there when the ball spills expect to see Brisbane grab it and just go.

Can't allow to many clean and quick exits against this mob.

 

[thebaldfacts]

The more I think about it the more I think it's just WHE or Howe forward. Then it gets interesting as we may need an extra defender, so does Noble come in or do our mids chop out in defence and what happens regarding Adams, Ginni and Lippa.

I think WHE will play more up forward, with Cox and Cameron spending more time forward rather than on the bench and hence greater than 70% game time for both.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Moving pretty well for 8/9 days post strain. I reckon he plays

I think so too. Wade will push him to the absolute limit to prove himself. If he gets through that, I'm confident he'll be fine to play.