Preview Changes: R5 2021 vs Fremantle

[Sanders]

The Vader/BF equivalent of going the Full Monty ...

more Kirk Lazarus

never go full Vader

 

[Sanders]

99% of our supporters know nothing about football so if we are getting melts it means we are on the right course.

maybe in your house

 

[Sanders]

Lockett was huge compared to a lot of his opponents in his era, however, there would definitely be a lot less players in today 2021, that would be scared or intimidated of Lockett.

I would even argue if Fogary didnt have to strip weight, he would be bigger than Plugger.

Lockett would struggle in today’s game, trying to curb his natural aggression. He used a lot of intimidation to augment his obvious skills & talents

Rodney Maynard famously told a tale of standing plugger, who warned him not to hold and block his lead in front: “cause then we’re both gonna miss games”

 

[Sanders]

It was Tony's attitude that was so scary. I remember very clearly in the Crows first season, he was standing Rodney Maynard. Before the game started they shook hands and Tony said to Rodney, "Lets have a clean game Rodney, no dirty hits and we have a beer after the game. If you play dirty I'll put you in hospital." True story, straight from Rodney's mouth. No cameras in those days. 1 Umpire IIRC or might have been 2 at the most. Nowadays, cameras and 3 or 4 umpires.
Geez Fogarty would be even slower and less agile if he was larger. Big and slow doesn't work in today's game. Big and extremely mobile does.

I heard the story slightly differently, but the gist is the same

 

[Schulzycrow]

On the drop Fog discussion. He offers another reliable target inside 50 probably taking the 4th defender. Would persist.
Frampton however offers a target, but an unreliable one, hard hands, minimal second efforts. Would give Berg of TT the nod. Would like to see TT get a game at home.
McHenry would be my other drop. Has been able to find more of the ball this season, but gives away too many stupid frees, with Freo's midfield Hately or even Pedler would be my choice of ins.
Otherwise all good.

 

[King Elvis]

Why even have a discussion about dropping a guy who can kick goals... in favour of who, exactly?

We already have enough forwards (and THE CONNECTOR) who don't actually score.

Kicking goals helps win games - some say it's actually critical to do so.

Playing Fog doesn't improve our chances in 2023, while it does destabilise our 2021 team, thereby screwing with the development of the other players.

This is why some people think you're a troll Vader.

You make outlandish statements or adopt ridiculous positions, that cannot be reasonably defended...

But you do it anyway.

 

[Slippery Pete]

This is why some people think you're a troll Vader.

You make outlandish statements or adopt ridiculous positions, that cannot be reasonably defended...

But you do it anyway.

He definitely isn’t a troll, trolls are funny occasionally

 

[1970crow]

I heard the story slightly differently, but the gist is the same

I heard it much the way you did. Maynard was grabbing him and Plugger told him to stop or they'd both be missing weeks. Might have even been before the first bounce.

 

[Sanders]

This is why some people think you're a troll Vader.

You make outlandish statements or adopt ridiculous positions, that cannot be reasonably defended...

But you do it anyway.

no one says he’s a troll. Though there is a pathology about digging in on the indefensible which is a bit strange

 

[CrowBloke]

I do know that playing Himmelberg in the SANFL is not helping him as he is clearly not happy about being there.

From several other posters' observations, consensus is that Himmelberg looks disenchanted/disinterested, maybe sulking.

All the more reason to leave him in the SANFL until he learns to produce his best for the Club and for his own development.
Rewarding his disinterest with a place in the AFL sends the wrong message and reminds me of Jenkins' sulking publicly after being dropped. Maybe someone needs to point out to Himmelberg what happened to Jenkins?

 

[CrowBloke]

Amazing as Lockett was, Fogarty is in a whole class above him.

Ya reckon?
For class Lockett >>> Fogarty, but the comparison is tenuous because of the disparity in career games. Better to compare them after Fog has played another 256 games ... if he does!
I'll throw Dunstall's hat into the ring, as well as Buddy Franklin who pots goals regularly from 45-55m out, on that weird running angle of his.
They're all daylight ahead of Fogarty.

 

[Bearded Clam]

This is so correct, and should be so obvious.

If Fogarty can lead and score from the flanks/pockets, it makes our F50 harder to defend. Forgarty can lead wide, and they must defend him; leaving the centre channel free for Tex to lead into.

If Fogarty can slot goals from the 50 arc, AS WELL AS Tex, then they have to defend it.

They can both kick goals from the flanks/pockets/F50 arc - that is a massive weapon.

Definately better than himmelberg who cant even make the distance from 35-40 out on a 45 degree angle.. or frampton whos cement hands barely allow him to hold a mark and who’s goal kicking is hit and miss..

think we need fog playing mid and forward minutes.. Tex playing forward fulltime.. TT playing forward/chop out ruck and working up the ground being a bit of a connector type..

And lynch can be swapped out for a “smaller” (not too small) quicker more mobile type forward.. someone who can actually run which is something lynch couldnt do with his injured toe on the weekend.

 

[CrowBloke]

The problem is that every other aspect of his game is below AFL standard. His work rate is poor (lack of repeat efforts), his ability to win contested possession (either contested marking or on the ground) is poor, and his defensive pressure is pathetic.

ALL could be fixed by a big lift in fitness + a hefty dose of intent and application.
Did you see the block he effected against Cunnington in the middle of the ground (no-one else around), which freed up Laird to create one of our goals?
Fogarty has footy smarts, but with those legs and that build he needs to get much fitter. He oughta train with Sholl for a month or so.

 

[CrowBloke]

But I am waiting for the ample size to be much larger before I start putting accolades on him

You want Fog's legs to be even bigger???

 

[MRB37]

 

[King Elvis]

From several other posters' observations, consensus is that Himmelberg looks disenchanted/disinterested, maybe sulking.

All the more reason to leave him in the SANFL until he learns to produce his best for the Club and for his own development.
Rewarding his disinterest with a place in the AFL sends the wrong message and reminds me of Jenkins' sulking publicly after being dropped. Maybe someone needs to point out to Himmelberg what happened to Jenkins?

I don't agree with this.

There are different ways to manage, motivate and lead people. Not everyone is a Rory Sloane, and if that is what we rely upon, then we have a failure of management.

Maybe Himmelberg is disillusioned - that is a leadership failure.

There are two options - punish him for sulking (which might be based upon seeing his career disappear before his eyes, or feeling like he's been hard done by after last year), don't select him, and delist him at the end of the year.

Alternatively, if we think he has a future, grab him, speak with him, motivate him, show confidence in him - and select him.

I don't know the people involved (obviously) so can't say how to motivate him, but there are other ways - probably somewhere in the middle here - this old fashioned notion we have around selection is not positive or productive, and hasn't proven successful.


For the record, I'd prefer Tilthorpe - but I also believe Himmelberg should be given a block of 4 games to prove himself; so we can actually make a judgement on him for the future.

We gave Frampton that block - we now know he's a depth player, so we can trade him if someone wants to make an offer, or we keep him in the SANFL just in case.

But at least we know.

 

[CrowBloke]

1) Maybe Himmelberg is disillusioned - that is a leadership failure.
2) There are two options - punish him for sulking (which might be based upon seeing his career disappear before his eyes, or feeling like he's been hard done by after last year), don't select him, and delist him at the end of the year.
Alternatively, if we think he has a future, grab him, speak with him, motivate him, show confidence in him - and select him.
3) For the record, I'd prefer Tilthorpe - but I also believe Himmelberg should be given a block of 4 games to prove himself; so we can actually make a judgement on him for the future.

Thoughtful response appreciated:
1) I'd say it's 50-50 leadership-Himmelberg. Surely Himmelberg is at least 50% responsible for his own attitude?
2) For all we know, they have done all those things, ie "grab him, speak with him, motivate him". I'd be very surprised if not.
3) He's had blocks of 4 games, and played 19 for 18 goals.

 

[Stepover]

99% of our supporters know nothing about football so if we are getting melts it means we are on the right course.

Well done! Self reflection is an admirable personality trait.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[King Elvis]

Thoughtful response appreciated:
1) I'd say it's 50-50 leadership-Himmelberg. Surely Himmelberg is at least 50% responsible for his own attitude?
2) For all we know, they have done all those things, ie "grab him, speak with him, motivate him". I'd be very surprised if not.
3) He's had blocks of 4 games, and played 19 for 18 goals.

Same to you mate; was more of a general comment, than at you specifically.

1&2 - agree; but I tend to place responsibility on those at the top.

3 - which is a reasonable return for a young KPF who wasn't an early draft pick. Maybe he felt like he'd earned a crack at the starting side this year, only to be usurped by Frampton. I also don't think you can judge almost ANY of our team based on last year; even without COVID, we were just an absolute shambles.

As you say, we don't know the internal workings - I just wouldn't be so quite to write somebody off due to a lapse in attitude, when it could potentially be a teaching/development opportunity.

Cheers

 

[MarcusP2]

Peter Caven once tried to float in front of a Plugger lead.

Once.

Lockett would struggle in today’s game, trying to curb his natural aggression. He used a lot of intimidation to augment his obvious skills & talents

Rodney Maynard famously told a tale of standing plugger, who warned him not to hold and block his lead in front: “cause then we’re both gonna miss games”

On Pixel 5 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[footy4ever]

Well of course.

Franklin

Lobb

 

[King Elvis]

Good - not in our interest to win too many games.

 

[Murray2503]

From several other posters' observations, consensus is that Himmelberg looks disenchanted/disinterested, maybe sulking.

All the more reason to leave him in the SANFL until he learns to produce his best for the Club and for his own development.
Rewarding his disinterest with a place in the AFL sends the wrong message and reminds me of Jenkins' sulking publicly after being dropped. Maybe someone needs to point out to Himmelberg what happened to Jenkins?

I watched Himmelberg and he wasn't that bad. It's hard for any of our listed players to influence the game in the sanfl with so many backup spuds in the team due to our relatively bad injury run. I think they have been waiting for Berg to have a half decent game before inclusion. Frampton having two poor weeks in a row and Berg taking some good grabs in the sanfl should see him in this week or next imo.

Worrell and Pedlar stood our as a class above but they probably will go with Hately over Pedlar due to superior fitness.

 

[maxlilly]

Same to you mate; was more of a general comment, than at you specifically.

1&2 - agree; but I tend to place responsibility on those at the top.

3 - which is a reasonable return for a young KPF who wasn't an early draft pick. Maybe he felt like he'd earned a crack at the starting side this year, only to be usurped by Frampton. I also don't think you can judge almost ANY of our team based on last year; even without COVID, we were just an absolute shambles.

As you say, we don't know the internal workings - I just wouldn't be so quite to write somebody off due to a lapse in attitude, when it could potentially be a teaching/development opportunity.

Cheers

Surely all the motivation Himmelberg needs is to see Frampton spud it up for the last three weeks, two of those games against the bottom teams.
He must know that he will get a go if Frampton doesn't cut it, if he puts in something resembling an AFL footballer performance and attitude in the SANFL.
Himmelberg was better in the 2nd half last Saturday night but it still wasn't a performance to say ' pick me'.
Lets hope he can put a few good games together and earn himself a spot, the balls in his court.

 

[Taylor]

Well of course.

Franklin

Lobb

They aren't close to the same quality though