Preview Changes v Demons, Round 2 (upgraded to official preview)
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Lyons got exposed pretty badly in that round 23 game against the Dees last year. Obviously we now know he was well and truly cooked by that time, but if we’re bringing him back in we’d wanna be sure he’s 100% right given he’s already not the most athletic mid we have on the list and can’t afford to give that midfield of Melbourne’s to much time and space.
Don't see Lyons will be much help against the Dees, especially on his prep.
Coleman's a big loss even though he misfired mostly today.
Need to think this one over. Likely we need 2 rucks. Which detracts from the zip we were missing today.
Where exactly did willmot play ?
Ppl will laugh but with Mitch gone and our lack of grunt and tbh, players that play with much heart, I'd bring in Mathieson over Lyons or even Tunstill, or a number of others - to many players have again been drinking there own bathwater - amazing there could be such arrogance given how little the team has accomplished.
Ins - Mathieson, Fort and Zorko / Lester
Ots - Kiddy (concussion), Tunstill, MCCarthy
would love for Fagan to send a message and drop a name player - for once
Ins - Mathieson, Fort and Zorko / Lester
Ots - Kiddy (concussion), Tunstill, MCCarthy
would love for Fagan to send a message and drop a name player - for once
Hard to put a finger on precisely why it went so wrong today, especially in the clearances -9 third quarter was a bloodbath. Can’t see us dishing that up again if we are as ready as we think.
Out: Tunstill, Coleman (concussion), Robertsen
In: Lyons, Fort, Zorko
Can’t make wholesale changes. Need to build some cohesion playing together with all the new faces.
Out: Tunstill, Coleman (concussion), Robertsen
In: Lyons, Fort, Zorko
Can’t make wholesale changes. Need to build some cohesion playing together with all the new faces.
Might be a bit harsh but Tunstill's not ready or robust enough for Senior footy as yet . Wilmot was likewise lost today.
Today might be a bad day to pass judgement. And unless Zorks is ready don't see who we bring in until Ah Chee and Answerth are fit. I've been a critic of Answerth but at least he would've cracked in today were he there.
Today might be a bad day to pass judgement. And unless Zorks is ready don't see who we bring in until Ah Chee and Answerth are fit. I've been a critic of Answerth but at least he would've cracked in today were he there.
Nah **** it lets make changes.
Madden, Andrews, Robertson
Lester, Joyce, Starce
Clugga, Rich, Payne
Linc, Eric, rat
Charlie, Fort, Rayner
Oscar, Neale, Dunkley
Berry, Prior, Ashcroft, Michael
in position
Madden, Andrews, Robertson
Lester, Joyce, Starce
Clugga, Rich, Payne
Linc, Eric, rat
Charlie, Fort, Rayner
Oscar, Neale, Dunkley
Berry, Prior, Ashcroft, Michael
in position
Believe you need to watch the game again. Wilmot played wing all game (well up to the end of third quarter). Apart from missing his goal, he's done little wrong.
Berry on the other hand, has been terrible and rested on the bench for long stretches, with Wilmot, Robertson and Tunstill playing more wing. Berry was clearly underdone, and shouldn't have played. I don't know if there is ongoing issues with his shoulder, but he hasn't really looked to put his body on the line.
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rye
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- Apr 24, 2022
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think changing personnel will just be deck chairs on the titanic if we cant manage to figure out a way to respond when teams get games on their terms. dont think theres a team in the comp with such a gulf between their worst and their best as seen when teams wrestle momentum and a lot of our star players get caught watching it unfold before them
This was definitely one point I wanted to make. We've added better players to our team. But we're still playing the same offensive game plan. I have no idea what we're supposed to be doing on defense. I believe there's a lot wrong with our game plan.
Port went in to the game with 3 tall defenders, 194cm, 191cm and 191cm. Yet their tall defenders picked us apart because our forwards don't work. There's no leading to create space behind, for a second forward to lead in to. Our forwards are almost always static, waiting for the ball to be kicked on their heads. It's so easy for a floating defender to then pick off our forward entries.
Where as Ports tall forwards are constantly leading in to space, creating space for another forward to run in to. This means our defenders have to run with their defender, dragging them out of the area, and denying them the ability to float across and intercept mark as a spare tall.
Ports mids were often kicking in to space, where a leading forward was able to run in to mark.
Often times Port had one or two of their small/medium forwards up the ground, supporting the midfield, this opened up space in their forward line, creating more space for their remaining forwards to lead in to.
Where as we crowd our forward line, have Joe coming over the top spoiling Eric or Oscar from behind, and hoping we have a small ready to crumb the ball.
Geelong are masters of this forward set up. Port appear to be coping it.
We haven't changed.
Having watched 3 quarters now, I don't know where to start.
Our work rate was very poor, yet we looked gassed with 7 minutes to go in the third.
There was absolutely no connection amongst our midfielders, and Oscar gave them barely any service all game long. It was like our mids set up wrong at every centre bounce or stoppage. The Port mids just won the ball at ease in the contest, or were first to the loose ball and faced little immediate pressure, so they always had time to steady and deliver quality ball forward.
All our problems that have been evident under Fagan were still there today.
Poor midfield running, either defensive running, or running with their man. Bailey was really poor today in this regard. So to was McCluggage and Berry.
Our small/medium forwards don't work anywhere near as much as opposition forwards do in supporting their midfield. This is largely due to Fagans game plan, and always having one or two smalls deep. When we do turn it over at half forward, there's very little pressure coming on the opposition from our small forwards.
We haven't shown any growth in our ability to spread and handball accurately from player to player to find the open player. Collingwood were good at last night, and Port were pretty good at it today.
Us, we have Neale and Ashcroft with incredibly fast hands, but half the time they're so rushed, they are blind handballs and went to the opposition more oten than one of our players.
There was no evidence of a running game today. Largely because we could barely win the ball in the midfield. And if we did win it in defence, we killed all momentum in the game, by giving the ball to Rich, who stood there assessing Dog knows what, until he was whistled to play on.
Our work rate was very poor, yet we looked gassed with 7 minutes to go in the third.
There was absolutely no connection amongst our midfielders, and Oscar gave them barely any service all game long. It was like our mids set up wrong at every centre bounce or stoppage. The Port mids just won the ball at ease in the contest, or were first to the loose ball and faced little immediate pressure, so they always had time to steady and deliver quality ball forward.
All our problems that have been evident under Fagan were still there today.
Poor midfield running, either defensive running, or running with their man. Bailey was really poor today in this regard. So to was McCluggage and Berry.
Our small/medium forwards don't work anywhere near as much as opposition forwards do in supporting their midfield. This is largely due to Fagans game plan, and always having one or two smalls deep. When we do turn it over at half forward, there's very little pressure coming on the opposition from our small forwards.
We haven't shown any growth in our ability to spread and handball accurately from player to player to find the open player. Collingwood were good at last night, and Port were pretty good at it today.
Us, we have Neale and Ashcroft with incredibly fast hands, but half the time they're so rushed, they are blind handballs and went to the opposition more oten than one of our players.
There was no evidence of a running game today. Largely because we could barely win the ball in the midfield. And if we did win it in defence, we killed all momentum in the game, by giving the ball to Rich, who stood there assessing Dog knows what, until he was whistled to play on.
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Hey briztoon , I meant to mention the fitness aspect as well although it is confusing when you look at the evidence, eg. we ran out our 2 close finals wins last season very well. Interesting that Tom Berry said the Suns run a lot more than we do in the pre season, also did McStay mention something about training/running in the off season as well? I have a vague recollection that he did.
But yes overall I agree that we look gassed in games against opposition that play that run and gun style of play, we do not seem to be able to stop it once it starts.
Friday night against another fast moving side will be enlightening, the Demons will be fired up after us beating them last meeting, alarm bells will be ringing if the game is similar to yesterday.
After cooling down overnight I think we need to give our new team time to gel, lot of new key role players in our side, on top of the big 4 in Dunkley, Ashcroft, McKenna and Gunston there was also Tunstill, hopefully it turns quickly, a 0-4 start and even finals would be debatable and a top 4 spot all but gone.
But yes overall I agree that we look gassed in games against opposition that play that run and gun style of play, we do not seem to be able to stop it once it starts.
Friday night against another fast moving side will be enlightening, the Demons will be fired up after us beating them last meeting, alarm bells will be ringing if the game is similar to yesterday.
After cooling down overnight I think we need to give our new team time to gel, lot of new key role players in our side, on top of the big 4 in Dunkley, Ashcroft, McKenna and Gunston there was also Tunstill, hopefully it turns quickly, a 0-4 start and even finals would be debatable and a top 4 spot all but gone.
mpal6
Norm Smith Medallist
We need Joyce next week. He has to play regardless of his form as he needs to get some familiarity in 3 tall defense. There'll be Ben Brown, Tom McDonald and Gawn or Grundy playing deep. They'll do the same as what Port did to us, kick a high ball and watch our 2 tall defenders scramble to spoil against 3 or 4.
Time to try something different like play Joyce, drop Oscar and ask Hipwood + Daniher to rotate through ruck. At least it'll open up space for Gunston in the forward line with one less tall.
mpal6
Norm Smith Medallist
Rich was too conservative. The thing that annoyed me the most watching on tele, Port pressed up too high leaving our players loose on the center square at the back. Rich could've showed a bit of dare and aimed for space around them rather than always going to talls hugging the boundary line. We were ahead by 18 or something at that point, Rich never made Port players guess. It was rinse n repeat 101 - they picked us off quite easily.
mpal6
Norm Smith Medallist
Yep - I'm trying to sit through the replay again and I agree. I asked the question earlier why we didn't send Berry and Robertson to put defensive clamps in the middle considering the preferred setup Neale+Dunkley+Ashcroft was not working. Berry playing unfit makes sense why we didn't try.
If we played Berry knowing he was not fit then that's on the coaching group. There is a long list of players who are available now as cover - starting with Prior who was the sub.
There wasn't one area of the game or in coaching that we weren't decimated in.
The coaches and the players will know obviously. It was all really more of the same when we've been carved up in the past.
Let's see what we come up with this week. The most basic place to start is a genuine 4 quarter effort from the players. Systems working or not if you're not having a hot go you'll get carved up at this level.
The coaches and the players will know obviously. It was all really more of the same when we've been carved up in the past.
Let's see what we come up with this week. The most basic place to start is a genuine 4 quarter effort from the players. Systems working or not if you're not having a hot go you'll get carved up at this level.
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Who would have thought Fages would be decimated by Ken Hinkley.
Agree. For me, being demolished in the clearances was most disappointing given that we had clearly identified the need for a more defensive edge there (judging by Fages’ comments about the recruitment of Dunkley) but we simply couldn’t arrest the momentum. Not singling any one individual out in particular given all of our mids were comprehensively beaten, but I’d hope all of them would be pretty embarrassed by yesterday.
Having rewatched some of the game this morning, those calling for Rich to be dropped aren’t being unreasonable. Whilst there wasn’t a lot of movement up the field at times, his procrastination with ball in hand was bemusing.
I also thought we were missing McStay a bit, whose hands got us out of trouble when we got hemmed in.
Not throwing the toys out of the cot yet, but given not many would have had Port at the top end of the ladder this year, we’d want to turn things around quickly or we could easily be 0-3
Gibbo_88
Premiership Player
I got a different vibe about our attacking game. I don't think we actually got to see how we want to attack because we didn't cope with the pressure Port played with. Full credit to Port for making us look poor. Agree that there was no way of seeing what changes we have made to defence. You couldn't say if we have changed a thing other than put Dunkley in the midfield.
We were smashed in the midfield contest. They harassed our better players around the contest so much (especially in the 3rd quarter) that none of our players seemed to be able to be part of the play without getting tackled or hit hard. When they fumbled, they tried even harder and we couldn't keep up with that level of pressure. Someone has to own that. Went in with the wrong attitude and got embarrassed.
I thought Port looked like they're playing a similar running game to the Pies. Will be interesting to see how they go against each other next week.
- Dec 1, 2013
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i I wouldn't bring in Zorko or Lyons unless they are 100% fit. However, l think there were too many young players there: Ashcroft, Wilmott, Tunstill, Prior (as sub), Payne and a few others l am prob missing. Problem is, who do we put in. I thought we had this great depth...
Not sure if it was Big O's problem or the midfields but l thought O didn''t do much at all, he didn't really help with claerances or be that mark our of defensive 50. I am starting to come round to the idea that he should be dropped for Fort (Probaby bring in both for Melbourne next week), but l think Fort is showing more in games than Big O at the moment.
Not sure if it was Big O's problem or the midfields but l thought O didn''t do much at all, he didn't really help with claerances or be that mark our of defensive 50. I am starting to come round to the idea that he should be dropped for Fort (Probaby bring in both for Melbourne next week), but l think Fort is showing more in games than Big O at the moment.
History has shown we back in our players after a loss and I think that's the right idea here. We need to build cohesion, ownership and accountability. I would bring in Answerth for Coleman and leave the rest to try to make amends for an effort-based loss.
I'd also make the leaders run the debrief and set up the performance goals for next week. Coaches should take a step back, I'm sure the players are burning so let's see if they can translate that into team drive and on-field fire - it has the highest ceiling of any approach we could take after an early hard loss.
I'd also make the leaders run the debrief and set up the performance goals for next week. Coaches should take a step back, I'm sure the players are burning so let's see if they can translate that into team drive and on-field fire - it has the highest ceiling of any approach we could take after an early hard loss.
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