Preview Changes v Demons, Round 2 (upgraded to official preview)

[Gadzorks]

History has shown we back in our players after a loss and I think that's the right idea here. We need to build cohesion, ownership and accountability. I would bring in Answerth for Coleman and leave the rest to try to make amends for an effort-based loss.

I'd also make the leaders run the debrief and set up the performance goals for next week. Coaches should take a step back, I'm sure the players are burning so let's see if they can translate that into team drive and on-field fire - it has the highest ceiling of any approach we could take after an early hard loss.

I'm a bit over that.

We lack fierceness and need to do something to shock these gentlemen players into desperation effort levels.

 

[On the quiet]

Outs: Kiddy, McCarthy, Tunstill, Wilmot, Berry

Ins: Joyce, Zorko, Lyons, Fort, Answerth

I think this is too many changes Dalions. I see Fort coming in to counter the Dees height and Berry looked a bit underdone, and maybe Prior for Tunstill, but coaches should get the players to own that performance and give them the opportunity to respond this Friday. If we get beat, by a very good side (even without Pickett) I can accept that but there needs to be a response from this group.

 

[On the quiet]

Having watched 3 quarters now, I don't know where to start.

Our work rate was very poor, yet we looked gassed with 7 minutes to go in the third.

There was absolutely no connection amongst our midfielders, and Oscar gave them barely any service all game long. It was like our mids set up wrong at every centre bounce or stoppage. The Port mids just won the ball at ease in the contest, or were first to the loose ball and faced little immediate pressure, so they always had time to steady and deliver quality ball forward.


All our problems that have been evident under Fagan were still there today.

Poor midfield running, either defensive running, or running with their man. Bailey was really poor today in this regard. So to was McCluggage and Berry.

Our small/medium forwards don't work anywhere near as much as opposition forwards do in supporting their midfield. This is largely due to Fagans game plan, and always having one or two smalls deep. When we do turn it over at half forward, there's very little pressure coming on the opposition from our small forwards.


We haven't shown any growth in our ability to spread and handball accurately from player to player to find the open player. Collingwood were good at last night, and Port were pretty good at it today.

Us, we have Neale and Ashcroft with incredibly fast hands, but half the time they're so rushed, they are blind handballs and went to the opposition more oten than one of our players.


There was no evidence of a running game today. Largely because we could barely win the ball in the midfield. And if we did win it in defence, we killed all momentum in the game, by giving the ball to Rich, who stood there assessing Dog knows what, until he was whistled to play on.

Briztoon, i posted last night with the very hot weather we have had in Brissy the past few weeks, and even hotter out at Springfield where the players are training during the day, could this be a possible reason for what appeared to be a lethargic effort by almost everyone (except Cam) in that 3rd Q. Trying to find some explanation for that second half

 

[TS13]

Having watched 3 quarters now, I don't know where to start.

Our work rate was very poor, yet we looked gassed with 7 minutes to go in the third.

There was absolutely no connection amongst our midfielders, and Oscar gave them barely any service all game long. It was like our mids set up wrong at every centre bounce or stoppage. The Port mids just won the ball at ease in the contest, or were first to the loose ball and faced little immediate pressure, so they always had time to steady and deliver quality ball forward.


All our problems that have been evident under Fagan were still there today.

Poor midfield running, either defensive running, or running with their man. Bailey was really poor today in this regard. So to was McCluggage and Berry.

Our small/medium forwards don't work anywhere near as much as opposition forwards do in supporting their midfield. This is largely due to Fagans game plan, and always having one or two smalls deep. When we do turn it over at half forward, there's very little pressure coming on the opposition from our small forwards.


We haven't shown any growth in our ability to spread and handball accurately from player to player to find the open player. Collingwood were good at last night, and Port were pretty good at it today.

Us, we have Neale and Ashcroft with incredibly fast hands, but half the time they're so rushed, they are blind handballs and went to the opposition more oten than one of our players.


There was no evidence of a running game today. Largely because we could barely win the ball in the midfield. And if we did win it in defence, we killed all momentum in the game, by giving the ball to Rich, who stood there assessing Dog knows what, until he was whistled to play on.

It's like we decided to try the faster pace, corridor offence in the pre-season against the two grand finalists with encouraging results, and then decided nope, let's go back to the same kick mark down the line plan we have been using for the last 4 seasons. So frustrating

 

[McIvor]

Hey briztoon , I meant to mention the fitness aspect as well although it is confusing when you look at the evidence, eg. we ran out our 2 close finals wins last season very well. Interesting that Tom Berry said the Suns run a lot more than we do in the pre season, also did McStay mention something about training/running in the off season as well? I have a vague recollection that he did.

But yes overall I agree that we look gassed in games against opposition that play that run and gun style of play, we do not seem to be able to stop it once it starts.

Friday night against another fast moving side will be enlightening, the Demons will be fired up after us beating them last meeting, alarm bells will be ringing if the game is similar to yesterday.

After cooling down overnight I think we need to give our new team time to gel, lot of new key role players in our side, on top of the big 4 in Dunkley, Ashcroft, McKenna and Gunston there was also Tunstill, hopefully it turns quickly, a 0-4 start and even finals would be debatable and a top 4 spot all but gone.

I am very conerned about our running to after yesterday's game. Having seen Collingwood, some of the Melbourne v Dogs game and Thursday night and Port, to my untrained eye, we arent fit enough and our runners arent powerful like these other teams. That's just not good enough, nor is our attitude. I'd have thought the players would be champing at the bit for the first game, yet they looked uninterested and unwilling to work for one another. Very poor signs. As others say, Fagan and his cronies still havent changed and yet we re-sign them and nothings new.

If and its a big IF, we underperform this year, i think we need a cleanout of coaches otherwise this group will have zero to show and for a few players, who i think are taking for granted of being a good side thinking a flag will just happen, if not this year, they are going to regret their careers in a big way. From afar, to me and a couple of ppl i spoke to this morning, we have a lot of plyers happy to coast and as one friend said, many just don't care and it is the usual suspects to that when things arent going there, god forbid they put up there hand and lead from the front.

Melbourne is welcoming back May, Viney, Salem and another probably less Pickett - im going on Friday night , but i dont see us winning at all after how good Dees were last night. The first month is now looking very worrying - i just want the players to care and reverse that putrid attitude and effort from yesterday.

 

[M Malice]

I am very conerned about our running to after yesterday's game. Having seen Collingwood, some of the Melbourne v Dogs game and Thursday night and Port, to my untrained eye, we arent fit enough and our runners arent powerful like these other teams. That's just not good enough, nor is our attitude. I'd have thought the players would be champing at the bit for the first game, yet they looked uninterested and unwilling to work for one another. Very poor signs. As others say, Fagan and his cronies still havent changed and yet we re-sign them and nothings new.

If and its a big IF, we underperform this year, i think we need a cleanout of coaches otherwise this group will have zero to show and for a few players, who i think are taking for granted of being a good side thinking a flag will just happen, if not this year, they are going to regret their careers in a big way. From afar, to me and a couple of ppl i spoke to this morning, we have a lot of plyers happy to coast and as one friend said, many just don't care and it is the usual suspects to that when things arent going there, god forbid they put up there hand and lead from the front.

Melbourne is welcoming back May, Viney, Salem and another probably less Pickett - im going on Friday night , but i dont see us winning at all after how good Dees were last night. The first month is now looking very worrying - i just want the players to care and reverse that putrid attitude and effort from yesterday.

Yes it is concerning.. I too am going Friday night, a silver lining for me though is I am flying out early Saturday morning to do some trekking along the South Coast of Tasmania and will be off grid for over a week so wont have to participate in the possible meltdown myself, I wont even know the result of the Round 3 Dogs game till a few days later.

Ahhhh serenity now.

 

[Squizz89]

Pray for the players this week. They won’t be able to tell us how good they are with the media dominated by the Phins Broncos match up on Friday night. Maybe they could turn up and show us then instead of hearing about it in a podcast or something. Just a thought.

 

[Berrygood]

I am very conerned about our running to after yesterday's game. Having seen Collingwood, some of the Melbourne v Dogs game and Thursday night and Port, to my untrained eye, we arent fit enough and our runners arent powerful like these other teams. That's just not good enough, nor is our attitude. I'd have thought the players would be champing at the bit for the first game, yet they looked uninterested and unwilling to work for one another. Very poor signs. As others say, Fagan and his cronies still havent changed and yet we re-sign them and nothings new.

If and its a big IF, we underperform this year, i think we need a cleanout of coaches otherwise this group will have zero to show and for a few players, who i think are taking for granted of being a good side thinking a flag will just happen, if not this year, they are going to regret their careers in a big way. From afar, to me and a couple of ppl i spoke to this morning, we have a lot of plyers happy to coast and as one friend said, many just don't care and it is the usual suspects to that when things arent going there, god forbid they put up there hand and lead from the front.

Melbourne is welcoming back May, Viney, Salem and another probably less Pickett - im going on Friday night , but i dont see us winning at all after how good Dees were last night. The first month is now looking very worrying - i just want the players to care and reverse that putrid attitude and effort from yesterday.

I think regardless if it's a disappointing season or not we need to upgrade our line coaches. Cam Bruce was midfield coach at Carlton when Carlton were rubbish so it beats me why we hired him in the first place. Adcock has had his time, I couldn't even tell ya who the other line coach is.

We've signed Fagan for another 2yrs, and I think he is probably one of the best man managers out there but he does lack a bit of strategy and tactical nouse. Because of that he's relying on his line coaches to provide that, and the line coaches aren't up to it. I think it's fine for a head coach to rely on his troops to a degree, but his troops have to provide quality feedback and alternatives.

Time will come when Fages tenure is up but let's get him some "A" grade assistants before it comes to that. It will improve the team, improve Fagan and improve our flag chances.

As for a replacement for Fages, when it's due, I think we will be needing a young exciting innovative coach to come on board. The only one I can think of atm, one that not only has the bones required but a real meaning to the club is McRae. Talk to him now, tell him we want him bad when his contract at the pies is up. Line him up for the future.

To me it makes a lot of sense to upgrade our assistants giving Fages better support, better coaching and better feedback. It also gives Fagans contract extension a chance to continue success, until we can poach Fly to take over without the need to rebuild.

 

[Strato]

I am very conerned about our running to after yesterday's game. Having seen Collingwood, some of the Melbourne v Dogs game and Thursday night and Port, to my untrained eye, we arent fit enough and our runners arent powerful like these other teams. That's just not good enough, nor is our attitude. I'd have thought the players would be champing at the bit for the first game, yet they looked uninterested and unwilling to work for one another. Very poor signs. As others say, Fagan and his cronies still havent changed and yet we re-sign them and nothings new.

If and its a big IF, we underperform this year, i think we need a cleanout of coaches otherwise this group will have zero to show and for a few players, who i think are taking for granted of being a good side thinking a flag will just happen, if not this year, they are going to regret their careers in a big way. From afar, to me and a couple of ppl i spoke to this morning, we have a lot of plyers happy to coast and as one friend said, many just don't care and it is the usual suspects to that when things arent going there, god forbid they put up there hand and lead from the front.

Melbourne is welcoming back May, Viney, Salem and another probably less Pickett - im going on Friday night , but i dont see us winning at all after how good Dees were last night. The first month is now looking very worrying - i just want the players to care and reverse that putrid attitude and effort from yesterday.

Thank you - I agree with everything you have stated. Last season I posted on here that there needed to be a change/new ideas in the Coaching Department but nothing positive happened. Another issue was the Mindset of players which I posted a few times last season and laughed when I listened to Fagan's summary of the game yesterday that it was out of character for our players to be in that mentality/mindset. HELLO SAILOR WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?
Also in the preliminary final against Geelong watching the pre game warm up, I took a close look at Geelong and was extremely impressed how well drilled, strong, fit and professional they were. When looking at Brisbane we looked like a bunch of scrubbers. I said to my son about it and we both agreed that if this is an indication we are in for a hiding. Have not thought that we were going to be a Premiership chance this season because I have been waiting to see what was going to happen. On the performance yesterday I feel it's going to be a frustrating season for us and a brutal approach must commence. I see a lot of issues ahead of us which will take time and patience but hopefully that chance we have had has not passed us by.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Who would have thought Fages would be decimated by Ken Hinkley.

He should be greatly embarrassed by getting outcoached by a man widely considered past it. Fagan and the position coaches need to lift just as much as the players do. The same old game plan will give us the same old results. Or even worse actually, since other teams have worked out how to counter it now.

 

[martinson]

I think regardless if it's a disappointing season or not we need to upgrade our line coaches. Cam Bruce was midfield coach at Carlton when Carlton were rubbish so it beats me why we hired him in the first place. Adcock has had his time, I couldn't even tell ya who the other line coach is.

We've signed Fagan for another 2yrs, and I think he is probably one of the best man managers out there but he does lack a bit of strategy and tactical nouse. Because of that he's relying on his line coaches to provide that, and the line coaches aren't up to it. I think it's fine for a head coach to rely on his troops to a degree, but his troops have to provide quality feedback and alternatives.

Time will come when Fages tenure is up but let's get him some "A" grade assistants before it comes to that. It will improve the team, improve Fagan and improve our flag chances.

As for a replacement for Fages, when it's due, I think we will be needing a young exciting innovative coach to come on board. The only one I can think of atm, one that not only has the bones required but a real meaning to the club is McRae. Talk to him now, tell him we want him bad when his contract at the pies is up. Line him up for the future.

To me it makes a lot of sense to upgrade our assistants giving Fages better support, better coaching and better feedback. It also gives Fagans contract extension a chance to continue success, until we can poach Fly to take over without the need to rebuild.

If Fly continues to achieve at the Pies what he looks to be achieving you wouldn't prize him out of there with the US army imo.

 

[mpal6]

There wasn't one area of the game or in coaching that we weren't decimated in.

The coaches and the players will know obviously. It was all really more of the same when we've been carved up in the past.

Let's see what we come up with this week. The most basic place to start is a genuine 4 quarter effort from the players. Systems working or not if you're not having a hot go you'll get carved up at this level.

I'm so worried about this team when Zorko retires. Scary.

He would've gone to the middle and done something yesterday.

 

[Strato]

I think regardless if it's a disappointing season or not we need to upgrade our line coaches. Cam Bruce was midfield coach at Carlton when Carlton were rubbish so it beats me why we hired him in the first place. Adcock has had his time, I couldn't even tell ya who the other line coach is.

We've signed Fagan for another 2yrs, and I think he is probably one of the best man managers out there but he does lack a bit of strategy and tactical nouse. Because of that he's relying on his line coaches to provide that, and the line coaches aren't up to it. I think it's fine for a head coach to rely on his troops to a degree, but his troops have to provide quality feedback and alternatives.

Time will come when Fages tenure is up but let's get him some "A" grade assistants before it comes to that. It will improve the team, improve Fagan and improve our flag chances.

As for a replacement for Fages, when it's due, I think we will be needing a young exciting innovative coach to come on board. The only one I can think of atm, one that not only has the bones required but a real meaning to the club is McRae. Talk to him now, tell him we want him bad when his contract at the pies is up. Line him up for the future.

To me it makes a lot of sense to upgrade our assistants giving Fages better support, better coaching and better feedback. It also gives Fagans contract extension a chance to continue success, until we can poach Fly to take over without the need to rebuild.

You are spot on.

 

[Squizz89]

Fages has never been regarded as an outstanding game day coach I didn’t think. He does his best work man managing things and letting the line coaches do their jobs. With a group of 11 players in the leadership group though you’d think someone would be able to stand up out there themselves and sort it out.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

History has shown we back in our players after a loss and I think that's the right idea here. We need to build cohesion, ownership and accountability. I would bring in Answerth for Coleman and leave the rest to try to make amends for an effort-based loss.

To me, that's not accountability. Dropping players who weren't performing to AFL standard, now that's accountability.

I'd also make the leaders run the debrief and set up the performance goals for next week. Coaches should take a step back, I'm sure the players are burning so let's see if they can translate that into team drive and on-field fire - it has the highest ceiling of any approach we could take after an early hard loss.

The coaches are just as responsible. They need to change their game plan.

 

[Berrygood]

As for changes round 2, I don't see many happening. We will need to be taller down back and will need a better ruck performance v Melbourne.

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that Fort comes in for Kiddy and Gunston moves to defense. I like that move. One change that boosts both areas.

If Zorko is fit, and I mean play the season out fit, I think he comes in for McCarthy. I'm a fan of Lincs but his output needs to improve. Zorks can provide a fwd pressure that can be inspirational. Inspiration that our captains failed to bring v Port.

In the midfield, I don't think Berry is injured just underdone and as others have said Dev looks better when in the guts of it. Both are capable of putting the clamps on Petracca n Oliver etc, I think that will be needed. Get some hardness in the guts along with Dunkley. Unless Lyons is super fit, I'm happy to stick with those that played Port and hope they are maybe used a bit different and that they put in a hugely improved performance. Melbourne's midfield runs so deep, Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Harmes, Hunter, and can't think of the name of the bloke whose brother plays for Freo. It's a very strong contingent, a big challenge for our boys.

Maybe Prior for Tunstill, Prior adds a bit more versatility.

More than likely we will just see Joyce come in for Kiddy and maybe the Prior Tunstill swap.

 

[Elixuh]

I don't know what we should do with the ruck situation. You're not bringing in Fort to help win the ruck, it'd be about load management for O going up against Grundy + Gawn. Otherwise stick to our plan and plan around losing the ruck contest, which is what will happen regardless of whether Fort plays. I personally think we are a better chance just playing O.

 

[Berrygood]

If Fly continues to achieve at the Pies what he looks to be achieving you wouldn't prize him out of there with the US army imo.

This is Collingwood remember, one season where they drop a cpl of places or if they don't win a flag in the next 2 or 3yrs and they will be calling for his head.

Start the work now, have a premiership reunion every year, get him up here as much as possible, play the Lions legend card as much as possible. Above all, money talks, offer him the world.

 

[braddsey]

Hey briztoon , I meant to mention the fitness aspect as well although it is confusing when you look at the evidence, eg. we ran out our 2 close finals wins last season very well. Interesting that Tom Berry said the Suns run a lot more than we do in the pre season, also did McStay mention something about training/running in the off season as well? I have a vague recollection that he did.

T.Berry & McStay may have said something like that, but remember Dunkley got flogged in the media for saying the same thing about our training compared to the bulldogs.
Take it all with a grain of salt - it’s just talking up the new team, and being in a different program. Likely trying to impress in a different place, out of the comfort zone.

 

[Section 5]

I think we will bounce back but how quickly is the question.
Wings have been a problem since McCluggage move to nearly 100% midfield time over the past few years.
I mentioned wing was still a issue going into round 1
Two x 3 gamers + an underdone Berry.
The midfield gets blamed a lot for lacking pressure, but wing is midfield.
Wings need to apply pressure but also need to be attacking players setting up efficient forward 50 entries.
Overall wing has been our main issue, and something needs to change.
You can carry one wing but not possibly 3 going into the one game.

I gave Wilmot a pass mark. Wilmot actually looks like he could become winger, but his learning curve will take a little time.
It was his first AFL game on the wing, but overall Bergman & Duursma were well on top for Port.

I would like to see what Coleman brings to team balance playing wing. His tank has improved and see more positives than negatives in this move.
Me winning lotto is more likely than that happening. Same with selectors deciding we have some midfield depth and move McCluggage back to wing.

So, just in relation to the above
Out: Tunstill
In: Lyons only if he is ready and showing no OP symptoms after playing VFL and any training sessions.

McCluggage to wing (unlikely) or Ashcroft to wing (unlikely), Coleman to wing if available (unlikely)
Other outside chances could be Answerth, McKenna
Bailey could play wing, but we lose a 37 goal forward/mid, and we are already missing a 24-goal f/m in Rayner at present.

Most likely it will be Prior with Sharp & Dev a possibility.
Dev does not look suitable to wing in my opinion but can fill a hole when needed.
Sharp has not shown much at AFL lever to date. Raps from a few senior players preseason but now is not the time to find out.

So, it will most likely be a predictable change being Prior. He is a solid player but won't improve us much in the wing area.
Ah Chee will be available soon but once again he is a solid player but won't help us improve much in this area.

I will dream tonight of a center line of McCluggage, Neale, Coleman with Berry w/m relief.
May as well put this imaginary team up for next week.

FB: Starcevich - Andrews - Lester (if they deem another tall necessary)
HB: Rich - Payne - Rayner

C: Coleman - Neale (m) - McCluggage (w 90% 10% m)
Foll: McInerney - Lyons (m/f) - Dunkley (m/f)

HF: Bailey (f/m) - Hipwood - Daniher (r)
FF: McCarthy - Gunston - Cameron

IC: Ashcroft (m/w/f) - Berry (w/m) - Zorko(f/m) - McKenna (d)

TS: Wilmot to bench if Zorko/Coleman unavailable, Dev Robertson, Prior, Fort, Fullarton, Joyce (prefer to see him play at VFL level first)

(End result Lyons for Tunstill, Lester for Dev if they go tall, Zorko for Wilmot. TS was Prior so he or someone else for that)

A little left field - Could Fort (or Fullarton) play defense relief, and ruck relief (in defense area) for 1 game.
Grundy & Gawn will drop back to this area regularly.
That way Oscar can position himself down the line when we clear that area, hopefully stopping opposition intercept marks.
This would be in place of Lester /Joyce/Fullarton or another tallish defender if club decides to go down that path.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I don't know what we should do with the ruck situation. You're not bringing in Fort to help win the ruck, it'd be about load management for O going up against Grundy + Gawn. Otherwise stick to our plan and plan around losing the ruck contest, which is what will happen regardless of whether Fort plays. I personally think we are a better chance just playing O.

Or just Fort?

 

[Elixuh]

Or just Fort?

I’d say unlikely O gets dropped

 

[martinson]

Maybe I'm getting too pessimistic but if we plan on losing the ruck contest, which is going to happen anyway , how do we expect our guys to shark it with Oliver, Petracca , Brayshaw ,Viney ,Harmes etc getting service.

Obviously we need a plan . Don't know what that is except get in and under first and get the ball with someone free on the outside. Easier said than done.

 

[martinson]

I’d say unlikely O gets dropped

No hope I'd say. He's just been promoted to the leadership group.

 

[briztoon]

I am very conerned about our running to after yesterday's game. Having seen Collingwood, some of the Melbourne v Dogs game and Thursday night and Port, to my untrained eye, we arent fit enough and our runners arent powerful like these other teams. That's just not good enough, nor is our attitude. I'd have thought the players would be champing at the bit for the first game, yet they looked uninterested and unwilling to work for one another. Very poor signs. As others say, Fagan and his cronies still havent changed and yet we re-sign them and nothings new.

If and its a big IF, we underperform this year, i think we need a cleanout of coaches otherwise this group will have zero to show and for a few players, who i think are taking for granted of being a good side thinking a flag will just happen, if not this year, they are going to regret their careers in a big way. From afar, to me and a couple of ppl i spoke to this morning, we have a lot of plyers happy to coast and as one friend said, many just don't care and it is the usual suspects to that when things arent going there, god forbid they put up there hand and lead from the front.

Melbourne is welcoming back May, Viney, Salem and another probably less Pickett - im going on Friday night , but i dont see us winning at all after how good Dees were last night. The first month is now looking very worrying - i just want the players to care and reverse that putrid attitude and effort from yesterday.

Part of what I mentioned last night, is that there’s very little support from our small/medium forwards to help our midfield.

Cameron wasn’t sighted until the last quarter, when he started to come up the ground.

Ideally we’d have Zorko and Bailey playing the half forward positions, and both coming up the ground supporting the midfield, then running back.

When we do have three talls in the forward line, one of Hippy or Joe need to be coming up the wing, opening up the space behind them for whichever of them is staying back.