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Charlie Curnow - The Return!
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Like the way you think
- Mar 20, 2017
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Another conspiracy theory gone wrong. Sounding like Charlie will be more likely for next week, not this week.
- Jun 7, 2019
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Written with tongue in cheek -- anyways great news for cripps seems Russel doesn't agree with SEN about this week
Charlie’s return match?
Reserves fixture...
Rd13- GEE...HOME
Rd14- COLL...AWAY
Rd15- NTH...HOME
Rd16- SAND...AWAY
Rd17- GCS...HOME
Rd18- BYE
Rd19- GWS...HOME
Reserves fixture...
Rd13- GEE...HOME
Rd14- COLL...AWAY
Rd15- NTH...HOME
Rd16- SAND...AWAY
Rd17- GCS...HOME
Rd18- BYE
Rd19- GWS...HOME
Dramoth
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Round 18 vs the Bye.
Tough mob the Bye, 50/50...
Seems like Charlie might be ready to roll against the Filth the week after...
- Aug 22, 2014
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A half against Collingwood reserves to get some touch back, and assuming he gets through that without getting hurt, and hasn't completely forgotten how to mark and kick, then unleash him against North the following week in the seniors.
It's not like he's just getting out of a moonboot now. He's been running for months, doing skills work for over a month, full contact training for a few weeks. Once he's confirmed fit enough to play a full game, that game may as well be in the seniors. Use a managed time reserves game to assess his touch and confidence.
Gives Charlie a run of 5 games at the end of the year. 4 of them in Victoria, and all of those under the roof at Marvel. North, St Kilda, Gold Coast, Port, GWS. It's about as good a run as you could ask for him.
It's not like he's just getting out of a moonboot now. He's been running for months, doing skills work for over a month, full contact training for a few weeks. Once he's confirmed fit enough to play a full game, that game may as well be in the seniors. Use a managed time reserves game to assess his touch and confidence.
Gives Charlie a run of 5 games at the end of the year. 4 of them in Victoria, and all of those under the roof at Marvel. North, St Kilda, Gold Coast, Port, GWS. It's about as good a run as you could ask for him.
- Mar 26, 2015
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Straight into the seniors after 2 years out and half a VFL game?
Snowball's chance.
- Aug 22, 2014
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I gave my reasoning, feel free to actually refute that.
He's in fantastic shape, will have had months of conditioning and fitness work, more than a month of skills training, and weeks of full contact training. If after a half of footy in the reserves he's considered to have both the fitness to run out a full game and the touch/confidence to play his role, what value is there in holding him back?
BringFevBack2021
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- May 9, 2021
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I spoke to my mate that I've referenced a few times (S&C in the AFLW for a big four club / previously at U18's boys development) regarding VFL / AFL workloads. He reckons the benefit of the VFL is being able to get a half of footy into the player (then chuck them on ice), and that the club would've already done their due dilligence in terms of load/stress testing on the prior compromised ligament. The relationship between injuries and the top level of footy isn't due to time out of the game, but fatigue. The incidence of an injury is somewhat more common when a player is fatigued, therefore - the strenuous running at AFL level can be responsible for a higher incidence of soft tissue injuries.
I'm paraphrasing hugely here, but that is basically why you'd play a half of Footy, then a game; then consider AFL - rather than a half in the VFL, then straight into the AFL. Obviously, Andrew Russell is the industry guru so whatever he does is probably going to be correct.
I'm paraphrasing hugely here, but that is basically why you'd play a half of Footy, then a game; then consider AFL - rather than a half in the VFL, then straight into the AFL. Obviously, Andrew Russell is the industry guru so whatever he does is probably going to be correct.
- Aug 22, 2014
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I'm not seeing a reason to play a full VFL game in any of that.
Can get just as fatigued playing VFL as AFL, grounds would generally be in worse condition. Sure, you can pull the player from the field early if they take a bit of a knock, but you can do that at AFL level with a sub too.
Factor in that Charlie can be brought back in to play out of the square and the fatigue issue is mitigated even further as well. Give Harry more license to roam up the ground and drag his brother with him, and let Charlie wrestle Tarrant close to goal.
If he's considered fit enough to run out a full game and isn't dropping marks and shanking kicks, why shouldn't that game be in the seniors?
BringFevBack2021
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Believe it's moreso about them having the option to give him 50% game time over 4 quarters is the logic - I don't actually know, I don't work in S&C but given my friends understanding and position (he's been offered roles in the lower tier English Football competitions too) I have no reason not to trust him.
Seems consistent with how most players are handled when they come back from injury.
- Aug 22, 2014
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I hear that, I'm just trying to match that up with the " but that is basically why you'd play a half of Footy, then a game; then consider AFL - rather than a half in the VFL, then straight into the AFL" bit.
Seems viable to give him a half in the reserves to assess his touch and see how he pulls up afterwards, and if everything looks good and a full game is on the cards then that game may as well be at senior level. He's not a midfielder who needs to get up and down the field all day, we can park him in the square and gradually increase his forays up the field as the season progresses.
Once he's four-quarter-fit and is considered to be in good touch, I don't see value in a full VFL game when the alternative is a full AFL game in friendly conditions against weak opposition.
EDIT: Just to add - I'm not trying to be argumentative or intractable for the sake of it. Genuinely at a loss as to why a full VFL game would be needed, unless he shows in a half game that he's lacking the touch required to play seniors.
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Your not the only one who is scared, as I don`t see the point, and the risk of him playing a month of reserves games and then 3 senior games, when they could get him cheery ripe over summer for season 2022 without as "much" chance of an injury....although we all know Charlie and his off season habits, so perhaps he would be safer in the twos?!!!
- Aug 22, 2014
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Your not the only one who is scared, as I don`t see the point, and the risk of him playing a month of reserves games and then 3 senior games, when they could get him cheery ripe over summer for season 2022 without as "much" chance of an injury....although we all know Charlie and his off season habits, so perhaps he would be safer in the twos?!!!
Can't keep holding him out.
If he's fit, he plays. To do anything else is unfair on the player himself.
Imagine trying to tell a bloke who has missed two years of footy that, despite being given medical clearance, we're going to stop him playing at any level for another 6 months because we're not gonna make finals this year anyway. He'd be on the phone to Geelong within an hour.
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Your good Blue__Balls - I can't answer without talking out of my ass though! I might see if my mate would ever be interested in answering questions like this on BF. Because clearly I can't refute people's points as my high-level understanding can only take me so far haha!
- Aug 22, 2014
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Would be interesting to hear from someone in the industry for sure.
There may well be considerations I haven't thought of, I'm just seeing a very straightforward equation whereby a player needs to tick the "four quarter fit" box and "remembers how to play" box, and if both boxes are ticked then they'd be eligible for senior selection. If they're not fully fit, play managed minutes again in the reserves. If they're woefully out of touch, play more reserves.
Beyond that you'd get into player v. player form considerations, but we don't really have to worry about that with our key forward stocks, do we
- Mar 26, 2015
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I'm refuting the concept in general. Nothing against you.
Also completely goes against the mantra that's been spewed about needing a body of work in the VFL to earn a senior spot.
Very confident that it won't happen, but more than happy to apologise to you on here if it does, even though I'm not having a go at you.
I disagree that it should happen (I'm as keen as everyone else to see him back out there), and I don't believe that it will happen. Don't take it personally, just discussion.
- Mar 26, 2015
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It just seems to go against industry standard and there's usually a very good reason for the industry standard. There's a big difference between VFL and AFL. The speed, the physicality, the demands on the body. Doc played round 1 after a 2 year lay-off, but he had the benefit of a proper preseason and playing 80% game time in two Marsh series preseason games, which don't always have full strength squads or the same intensity.Would be interesting to hear from someone in the industry for sure.
There may well be considerations I haven't thought of, I'm just seeing a very straightforward equation whereby a player needs to tick the "four quarter fit" box and "remembers how to play" box, and if both boxes are ticked then they'd be eligible for senior selection. If they're not fully fit, play managed minutes again in the reserves. If they're woefully out of touch, play more reserves.
Beyond that you'd get into player v. player form considerations, but we don't really have to worry about that with our key forward stocks, do we
Clubs don't use the medical sub to rest a player halfway through a seniors game because they aren't quite up for it yet. It just doesn't happen. That's what the VFL is for. What happens if you then get a proper injury after you've rested Charlie? You put extra stress on the remaining players and lose a bench rotation. Yes, that's a risk in any given game where you might end up with more than one injury, but why deliberately put yourself in that position?
What happens if we sneak a win against Cats and keep our slim finals hopes alive? We play Charlie against Pies, the game is a bit tighter than we would have hoped, but we're still a big chance to win. Everyone wants to keep the momentum rolling and get 4 in a row. The intensity of the game is picking up, players are getting fatigued, especially Charlie off the back of half a VFL game. Do you risk keeping him in to get the win, or do you potentially sacrifice the win to put him on ice? A few 'what-ifs' but you have to consider the variables.
The comments from the club make it sound like he's more likely to play next week rather than this week, but if I was looking ahead and planning his AFL return, if he's that close and effectively ready to play now, I'd look at getting him a half in the VFL this week (or 60-75% if they feel he's travelling alright), play a full VFL game the following week (which is the only way you can really deem if he's 'four quarter fit' - you simply can't say he's 4 qrt fit after 2 qrtrs of a VFL game), then unleash him against North. That way, if it takes him a little longer to get 4 quarter fit, or an extra game to get some touch and form back (we can't assume he'll just be in good enough form to come straight back in, even after 6 quarters of VFL), he gets a second full VFL game and comes in vs Saints.
- Moderator
- #48
We have a bye this weekend.
Injury report listed upcoming weeks for a return to VFL.
| Charlie Curnow | Knee | "A chance to play VFL in the upcoming weeks." Update: 6 July |
VFL fixture update: Carlton Reserves bye week
The Carlton Reserves will have a bye this weekend.
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- #49
Play him a half VFL, stipulating he doesn't do anything stupid (high marks, etc). Following week 3 qtrs again nothing stupid. Following week 3qtrs play freely. Week after depending on form either VFL/AFL. After each game a scan on his knee just to be sure.
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