Player Watch Charlie Dean

[The Royal Sampler]

I’m not holding my breath on Murphy coming back, so if we’re not continuing to give Dean games (unless he completely craters) then you’ve got to ask yourself what’s the medium term plan?

Are they going to commit to Frampton (unlikely)?

Wait until Eyre gets back and annoint him (speculative)?

Switch another player back like Kreuger or Ash (even more speculative)?

We’re basically wedded to Dean until Murphy comes back, unless Ryan all of a sudden starts playing taller or Jiath gains 15kg.

 

[No SPIN]

Dean can’t play the Murphy role because he isn’t good enough.

What does Dean lack in SKILL compared to Murphy?

 

[Horaceg]

I’ve seen enough of Dean to believe he has something to offer but after two years out and never played at the level he’s just not ready for it. Imho

 

[sr36]

I’m not holding my breath on Murphy coming back, so if we’re not continuing to give Dean games (unless he completely craters) then you’ve got to ask yourself what’s the medium term plan?

Are they going to commit to Frampton (unlikely)?

Wait until Eyre gets back and annoint him (speculative)?

Switch another player back like Kreuger or Ash (even more speculative)?

We’re basically wedded to Dean until Murphy comes back, unless Ryan all of a sudden starts playing taller or Jiath gains 15kg.

Bruzzy is the short term answer if Dean doesn't get more aggressive in his defence.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Bruzzy is the short term answer if Dean doesn't get more aggressive in his defence.

Bruzzy is already in the side…? And playing a defensive role…?

 

[sr36]

Bruzzy is already in the side…? And playing a defensive role…?

Change his role. Play him in Howe's role with Howe in Dean's role (or vice versa) and bring in another back flanker.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Change his role. Play him in Howe's role with Howe in Dean's role (or vice versa) and bring in another back flanker.

Hmmmm I don’t see Ryan as being physically ready. Jiath and Parker obviously aren’t. Wilson isn’t on the list anymore, nor Ruscoe. Eyre is injured, De Mattia in rehab. It’s basically Noble or maybe re-tasking Harrison somewhat.

 

[sr36]

Hmmmm I don’t see Ryan as being physically ready. Jiath and Parker obviously aren’t. Wilson isn’t on the list anymore, nor Ruscoe. Eyre is injured, De Mattia in rehab. It’s basically Noble or maybe re-tasking Harrison somewhat.

I don't think you actually need to bring in a back flanker - just a bit of a re-jig - could be what enables us to bring in Macrae full time.

A defence of Moore, Howe and Bruzzy playing tall with WHE, Crisp Markov and IQ reads pretty well to me.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I don't think you actually need to bring in a back flanker - just a bit of a re-jig - could be what enables us to bring in Macrae full time.

A defence of Moore, Howe and Bruzzy playing tall with WHE, Crisp Markov and IQ reads pretty well to me.

 

[swoop42]

Dean was drafted on the back of 8 VFL games in 2021 and has only played in 5 official matches since (including 2 this season).

Hardly a strong form line.

The coaches expected to much from Dean to soon and the VFL is the place he should be developing in and displaying he can outpoint VFL calibre key forwards week on week.

Frampton played 16 AFL games last season but in reality he himself has hardly had much opportunity to play in the role we originally drafted him for which was in key defence. His value in this role remains largely unknown at Collingwood.

Still, he's taller, stronger, more versatile and more experienced so it's a better base than Dean currently has and in the short term at least is hopefully a better option.

 

[Mostfamousclub_Pies]

What does Dean lack in SKILL compared to Murphy?

He doesn’t seem to be able to keep up with his opponent or even jump like Murphy can.

 

[TW Sherrin]

Dean was drafted on the back of 8 VFL games in 2021 and has only played in 5 official matches since (including 2 this season).

Hardly a strong form line.

The coaches expected to much from Dean to soon and the VFL is the place he should be developing in and displaying he can outpoint VFL calibre key forwards week on week.

Frampton played 16 AFL games last season but in reality he himself has hardly had much opportunity to play in the role we originally drafted him for which was in key defence. His value in this role remains largely unknown at Collingwood.

Still, he's taller, stronger, more versatile and more experienced so it's a better base than Dean currently has and in the short term at least is hopefully a better option.

It's a little strange considering one of the rare times Frampton played back last year he pulled Lynchs pants down

 

[whiskeytown]

It's a little strange considering one of the rare times Frampton played back last year he pulled Lynchs pants down

Before pies traded him in… Frampton had an excellent year in the SANFL playing defence.

But even he had funny moments when he played down back for the pies last year

Takes a little time to learn the pies defensive structures and patterns… whether it was Murphy, Frampton, Dean or Eyre later in the year

Then there’s adjustmening to the pace of senior footy

 

[domus]

What does Dean lack in SKILL compared to Murphy?

He lacks the pace and ability to read the play and get to contests as a third man to help out his teammates.

 

[gouki88]

He lacks the pace and ability to read the play and get to contests as a third man to help out his teammates.

I just don't think this has shown to be true at all

 

[sr36]

He lacks the pace and ability to read the play and get to contests as a third man to help out his teammates.

He's getting to the contests, but the issue is that he isn't attacking the contests. He's just trying to body his opponent rather than trying to kill the contest with a clearing fist to the ball - hopefully just confidence and a current lack of intent.

 

[gouki88]

He's getting to the contests, but the issue is that he isn't attacking the contests. He's just trying to body his opponent rather than trying to kill the contest with a clearing fist to the ball - hopefully just confidence and a current lack of intent.

I think confidence - it doesn't resemble how he's played before at VFL level, or even in the preseason

 

[No SPIN]

He lacks the pace and ability to read the play and get to contests as a third man to help out his teammates.

Not sure about this given in the VFL his ability to intercept and read the play was very good. Hence our interest.
It’s all about him getting familiar and comfortable in our system as Murphy required.
Compared to Murphy body strength may be the only issue.

 

[gouki88]

Not sure about this given in the VFL his ability to intercept and read the play was very good. Hence our interest.
It’s all about him getting familiar and comfortable in our system as Murphy required.
Compared to Murphy body strength may be the only issue.

18 months older and several more years in a top tier professional environment also helps the strength difference

 

[sr36]

I think confidence - it doesn't resemble how he's played before at VFL level, or even in the preseason

I hope so - as he looks very good at everything else - except the thing that really matters for a tall - the contest.

 

[gouki88]

I hope so - as he looks very good at everything else - except the thing that really matters for a tall - the contest.

I'm a big fan of his decision-making on the rebound, but yeah - contest work is the issue. I think it will come with game reps

 

[sam_e]

Hmmmm I don’t see Ryan as being physically ready. Jiath and Parker obviously aren’t. Wilson isn’t on the list anymore, nor Ruscoe. Eyre is injured, De Mattia in rehab. It’s basically Noble or maybe re-tasking Harrison somewhat.

Murphy's role in that defence has been so under-rated and his impact on the team's performance has also been relatively glossed over.

He's so unique in his ability to play on talls / mediums and the most dangerous forward, close space & cover gaps, come across as 3rd man up to kill contests, organise the entire backline, play with flagrant disregard for his own safety ..

At round 9 (2022) we were 4 wins / 5 losses and Murphy hadn't played a single game. Murphy plays round 10 (2022) onwards and we win 12 of the next 13 H&A games and 1 of 3 finals (albeit 1st Qual vs Geelong, we were mightily unlucky).

Murphy plays all of 2023 (bar one game) and we win 20 of 25 including 3 of 3 finals.

In terms of backstops / fill-ins or slower burns that would need time:

• WHE has been playing (spent some time) as the 7th defender in the backline end of last & start of this year but he's more of a tweener who can perhaps play on flankers
• Reef is the one i'd look at - depending on how he performs up forward. He has the physical attributes (194 cm/90kg vs Murphy 192 cm/90kg; incl. size & speed, developing core) to be able to play down back in that type of hybrid tall /medium athletic defender. But does he have the smarts to learn the system, ability to read the game, and discipline / courage to impact contests (3rd man up) etc ..would need to be given time!

 

[memoryofmchale]

I’m not holding my breath on Murphy coming back, so if we’re not continuing to give Dean games (unless he completely craters) then you’ve got to ask yourself what’s the medium term plan?

Are they going to commit to Frampton (unlikely)?

Wait until Eyre gets back and annoint him (speculative)?

Switch another player back like Kreuger or Ash (even more speculative)?

We’re basically wedded to Dean until Murphy comes back, unless Ryan all of a sudden starts playing taller or Jiath gains 15kg.

Frampton is the plan but he'll be moved around the board.

Kreugs can play defence but shouldn't be our solution for an injured player; Ash couldn't learn a new position in the time available.

Ryan is a HB and inconsistent in the VFL. Jiath, definitely not. Still too raw.

 

[31550]

Just a wild suggestion, but maybe Moore could actually pick someone up for a change?

 

[sam_e]

Just a wild suggestion, but maybe Moore could actually pick someone up for a change?

we play a team & aggressive come forward zonal defence

both the aggressive come-forward & zonal aspect of this strategy gives all our defenders latitude (license) to leave the man, in their immediate area (let's call them their current opponent), in order to pressure the oppo guy with the ball or oppo player next in line

ultimately, you're right though, the ball aint gonna kick itself through the big sticks, so the defenders need, at some point, to collapse back and pick up /defend a man

ps: for mine, Moore has been making some loose / poor calls about when to go and when to stay. coming off the most dangerous oppo tall forward to go and pressure a mid up on a flank / wing, when it's highly unlikely you'll get there in time or impact in any way, is poor judgement &/or lazy