Chris Judd: It's time the top 4 cannot attract free agents

[Bomberboyokay]

Chris Judd thinks he's smarter than he actually is because he went to an APS school and is rich.

 

[McCrann]

Excellent article.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...d-to-attract-free-agents-20160918-griyvc.html

Key point:

You don't necessarily have to bottom out after a flag. In fact, recent history suggests you're more likely to win another in the following years than you are moving towards the bottom end of the ladder in what used to be a cyclical expectation.


In other words - when the Hawks go to get Mitchell and O'Meara and all the others (whether by free agency or not) they will get them for unders.

The Hawks don't have to give up anything of note to get these players. A draft pick in the 20s and a fringe player is not a sacrifice to them to get top-end talent in their team. Or maybe it will be two draft picks...it won't be a lot.

The Hawks are blessed by a system that supports them to be up the top.

Not sure why you're potting the Hawks, they finished 5th - that's FIFTH - this year, so they are more than welcome to go and get some free agents given they didn't finish in the Top 4.

 

[McCrann]

In the end though, how does this help a team improve?
You have the odd player leaving to join a bottom side for a big amount but he is still a part of a crap side

This is exactly what Tom Boyd did with the Bulldogs and he has ruined them. Hasn't he.

 

[Ghost of Punt Road]

The fact that every single Hawks supporter argues that there is no problem, pretty much tells you how much of a problem there is.


There is also a fair problem with 'forced trades'. Players who could leave with free agency, so the club they are leaving does any trade they can.

THEN there is the problem of contracted players wanting out. OMeara types. Really we want types like that going to clubs that are struggling. I'd suggest taking away the ridiculous minimum cap payments would help.

 

[Damon_3388]

To protect the draft. If they can run down a 3 year contract and walk to their club of choice, the draft becomes redundant, Teams in NSW and Qld will suffer most from this.

Why isn't the draft "redundant" in the NBA? A player can easily lollygag through their guaranteed three years (for a first round pick), and not have the team option for a fourth year taken up, or just refuse to sign an extension, and they're out the door. Teams should back their ability to provide the right environment for a player to want to stay, rather than pissing and moaning about the risk factors of someone leaving.

Really though, if a player is willing to basically waste three years at the most crucial stage of their development, with no intent or openness to sticking around, do you really want them anyway?

 

[D-N-R]

Why isn't the draft "redundant" in the NBA? A player can easily lollygag through their guaranteed three years (for a first round pick), and not have the team option for a fourth year taken up, or just refuse to sign an extension, and they're out the door. Teams should back their ability to provide the right environment for a player to want to stay, rather than pissing and moaning about the risk factors of someone leaving.

Really though, if a player is willing to basically waste three years at the most crucial stage of their development, with no intent or openness to sticking around, do you really want them anyway?

I have no idea what happens in the NBA.

Providing the right environment is more difficult for teams in the non-traditional states and unsurprisingly, more difficult when a team is down the bottom of the ladder. If teams were well run and had a great culture, they wouldn't be at the bottom of the ladder.

 

[Damon_3388]

lTHEN there is the problem of contracted players wanting out. OMeara types. Really we want types like that going to clubs that are struggling. I'd suggest taking away the ridiculous minimum cap payments would help.

He's already at a struggling club, that's why he wants to leave. Yeah, a lower cap floor might offset this somewhat, but I don't think the difference in potentially available salary is great enough to make poor that much more attractive.

 

[Glorin]

It is humiliating for my club to go through what we went through with Lachie Henderson.
These are some quotes from the article when Henderson left.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...cided-to-leave-the-blues-20150820-gj3tuq.html


"Despite strong rumours he was likely to join Geelong in 2016, he said he did not know where he would play next season.
The key position player said there should be more honesty around player trades in the AFL industry."
In another article he was "in Geelong's sights THROUGHOUT 2015" In other words, he had mentally checked out round 5 or thereabouts as he knew his destination was Geelong.

So Henderson was calling for "more honesty" despite him wanting to leave Carlton in about round 5 of that season. He is calling for honesty but was completely dishonest with which club he was going to. "

We carried him like an incubator for that season until he got to his "strong" club.

Anyone who wants to go to a "strong" club should have to go through some pain.
The "market" dictates that Carlton only got a late first round draft pick for Henderson, but the "market" is tiered towards catering for the strong clubs. Either change the "market" parameters or hope like hell Gold Coast get something reasonable for O'Meara.

But why did he want to leave in the first place. I am sure Carlton would have had plenty of cash to spare. I seem to remember he wasnt happy with being a spare parts players going from fwd to back and filling holes and this affected his form. You club was a rabble and Mick was the worst call your club made since you list draft picks for doing the wrong things years ago.
You can blame the player but the environment they work in goes along way to providing satisfaction. Henderson wanted to tell the club but felt that it would affect his ability to play, which it did as you threw him out of the club by rd 18 or whatever. What did the club do to fix the situation before it got to that point? Mick was to busy stroking Daisy's hair to worry about the rest of the players!

Also, you got a better pick for Henderson than what the Hawks got for buddy. Hardly fair and equal.

 

[Glorin]

there's nothing wrong with players choosing where to go play. the issue is that if a player chooses where they go then their current club loses all their leverage at the negotiating table. but we got a first round pick out of henderson so no harm no foul IMO.

because of our clubs list management ineptitude he was never settled at carlton, one game playing forward one game playing back. then we ended up needing him to be a forward because we threw all our forwards away, which isn't his best position. can't blame him for wanting to leave. lets not forget that geelong weren't even a finals team last year. geelong recruited smartly but the only reason they've rocketed up the ladder is because the which girl dangerfield picked in high school. if he picked a different girl geelong are coming 7th this year. it's not free agency that's the problem. we look like pathetic entitled brats for blaming our list woes on it.

Great post.

 

[Glorin]

The fact that every single Hawks supporter argues that there is no problem, pretty much tells you how much of a problem there is.


There is also a fair problem with 'forced trades'. Players who could leave with free agency, so the club they are leaving does any trade they can.

THEN there is the problem of contracted players wanting out. OMeara types. Really we want types like that going to clubs that are struggling. I'd suggest taking away the ridiculous minimum cap payments would help.

Omeara is out of contract as of 31st Oct this year, so is Mitchell.

 

[ausbacker]

The fact that every single Hawks supporter argues that there is no problem, pretty much tells you how much of a problem there is.


There is also a fair problem with 'forced trades'. Players who could leave with free agency, so the club they are leaving does any trade they can.

THEN there is the problem of contracted players wanting out. OMeara types. Really we want types like that going to clubs that are struggling. I'd suggest taking away the ridiculous minimum cap payments would help.

Good luck getting this idea past the AFLPA.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Why should Hawthorn be penalized for being a successful, well run club ?

FWIW I am certain O'Meara wants to join the Hawks because they have the best medical staff and facilities in the league, he could have gotten much more coin at Essendon

 

[La Vache]

Why should Hawthorn be penalized for being a successful, well run club ?

FWIW I am certain O'Meara wants to join the Hawks because they have the best medical staff and facilities in the league, he could have gotten much more coin at Essendon

No mate he wants to come because hawthorn are a top 4 club and he is a free agent. And hawthorn were given Tasmania by the AFL.

 

[Paul Kersey]

Big bad Hawthorn. Always comes down to them.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

I think it's strange that this is coming up now to be honest. Who cares if the top 4 can get free agents? They still have to comply with the rules of the day, i.e salary cap, list numbers etc.

We've also seen a season where teams like The Dogs, Giants, Crows have really stamped themselves on this season, whilst the Dees and Saints have shown that shrewd trading and good drafting can get your club up the ladder quickly.

 

[RedFury]

Actually Carlton on traded Geelong's 2016 first round pick that they received for Henderson along with pick 28 to GWS for pick 8 (which became pick 10 after academy selections) which they used on Harry McKay.

They also got Jed Lamb, Andrew Phillips, Liam Sumner and Lachie Plowman in the deal who played 15, 16, 16 and 19 games for Carlton this year. Two of them are former top ten picks.

There are plenty of deals where teams don't get fair compensation for the player that leaves (see Dangerfield). Don't think the Henderson is the best example

This. Geelong dealt more than fairly with us at the trade table here. Let's not forget we didn't get pick 17, we got the cats first rounder which had the potential to be significantly higher if they didn't do so well this year. However they correctly backed themselves to do well this year, and it appears we did too because we on-traded that for pick 8.

Certain other teams would have held us over a barrel. I was very impressed with the eventual win-win nature of the deal. The fact it's being used as a source of whinging by a fellow blues supporter in this thread is actually pretty damn embarassing.

 

[Long Live HFC]

i for one thinks something has to done about free agency re coaches. that shit is getting out of hand!

 

[NewMelbournian]

Free agency is a part of the game, no going back now. But it does need reform. Draft picks, the cap, everything should be about giving every team a fair shot. I totally agree the elite teams shouldn't benefit from free agency.

Any system that has a young talent like O'Meara going from a struggling team to the 3peat premiers is a system that isn't working well.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

This. Geelong dealt more than fairly with us at the trade table here. Let's not forget we didn't get pick 17, we got the cats first rounder which had the potential to be significantly higher if they didn't do so well this year. However they correctly backed themselves to do well this year, and it appears we did too because we on-traded that for pick 8.

Certain other teams would have held us over a barrel. I was very impressed with the eventual win-win nature of the deal. The fact it's being used as a source of whinging by a fellow blues supporter in this thread is actually pretty damn embarassing.

Bingo, also it's a bit rich for a Carlton supporter to be whinging about this, considering how we used to poach all the best players from the WAFL and SANFL in the 70s/80s etc.

Hawthorn worked their backsides off to get where they are as a footy club, it's not like they were given their flags on a silver platter.

We have to be more inventive and harder worker as a footy club to get to where we want to be, I really don't the AFL to change to rules for us or another other under-performing and/or or basket clubs, simply because people are jelly Hawthorn will be getting O'Meara and Mitchell.

They lost Buddy Franklin to the Swans, the heart and soul Roughie may not play again, and a few other quality players over time, it just really annoys me that some seem to think the Hawks are rorting the system or getting undue advantages.

The moral is, other clubs really need to clean up their own backyard ...

 

[SSSSSS]

Elite Sport is the last bastion of a true meritocracy with all the feel good child rearing we do these days.

If you want flags you better bloody earn them. None of this tear down the successful clubs crap. You want to become a successful club then be one.

If you think it's too hard then you are in the wrong business.

 

[Broar]

I actually think we should go the other way and simplify the system further. If a player is uncontracted, they should be a true free agent, and a trade shouldn't be needed to acquire them. There shouldn't be compensation picks either. If you lose a player, you lose a player. Regroup and use the salary cap space and list spot to get someone else.

Why bother having a draft then?

 

[Xtreme]

Chris Judd's opinions are meaningless.

Like 99% of bigfooty

 

[PeaTea]

I think it's time that you nominate the state you want to live in and best trade (picks/players) gets the deal done for non-agents and the best contract offer for agents. A blind auction. Name your price, collusion between clubs is considered tampering with hefty penalties, and free agents go to the highest bidder and non-free agents go to the team willing to give the most to their old team. Wouldn't work with the news cycle, but I don't like the real young players just picking whichever team is closest to the top. I have sympathy for the "I want to go home" types but Victoria isn't O'Meara's home.

Vic isn't his home but he can work in what ever state he chooses. People forget this is their job

 

[vanders]

How about doing it by games played?

eg if you get a free agent who has played 160 games you need to trade or delist players that equal the same amount of games played or 80% of it.

 

[Damon_3388]

Why bother having a draft then?

Why bother having job interviews? Why don't companies just make offers to kids straight out of high school willy-nilly?

It provides an ordered entry point and regulates salaries for young players, as well as offering clubs a way up and to build a squad and having agency in their own future. The players need the clubs as much as the clubs need the players.

I don't really get why it's a question. Other professional leagues have far more sophisticated and proper free agency systems, but the draft still remains a vital tool in building their teams.