Chris Judd off to Carlton

[WakeUpPies]

he told me on myspace

 

[zero]

the fact is carlton can trump anyone else on the trade table. they have picks one and three and a gun full forward that they would like to get rid of if they can

all they need to do is make him a great pitch, and be one of a couple of clubs he agrees to go to, and they will get him.

every other club sort of need judd to pick them and them alone to be in the box seat

 

[True Bluebagger]

the fact is carlton can trump anyone else on the trade table. they have picks one and three and a gun full forward that they would like to get rid of if they can

all they need to do is make him a great pitch, and be one of a couple of clubs he agrees to go to, and they will get him.

every other club sort of need judd to pick them and them alone to be in the box seat

Carlton have the picks but will they part with them? If Judd was traded for both Picks 1 and 3, I might feel better about it if we got someone like Searby as well as Judd.

Picks 1 and 3 for Judd alone is not a great long term trade IMHO.

 

[mikeythemoocow]

Carlton should definately not throw the farm at WC for Judd.

Make a decent offer pick 3 and Kennedy and if the eagles don't want that its not really that much of a concern for us.

When I think about it, while Judd is Judd, we really need a tough inside player, from WC I think if we had the choice of any player we would have to look long and hard if it was really Judd we wanted, or Kerr.

What we really need is just need another hard body in the mid field and that will help heaps. While Judd would do this, their are other players and we could end up with a steal if we were to trade our no. 3 pick.

Make WC a reasonable offer, ie pick 3 and Kennedy, and if they don't like it fine. Their is other players, not better, but that could still do a sufficient role for what we need to see a improvement for the Blues.

 

[zero]

is pick 3 and kennedy a fair trade for chris judd, the best player in the comp?

i dont think so. i doubt judd would either

would judd agree to play for a club that is not even prepared to trade for him?

"we think you are a good player, juddy, but we will only trade for far less than you are worth, otherwise we arent interested"

i would suggest that judd wouldnt be that interested in carlton, if that was the attitude. i daresay judd will only be interested in playing for a club that is interested in him

 

[Aussie Joe]

is pick 3 and kennedy a fair trade for chris judd, the best player in the comp?

let him leave for nothing then

 

[mikeythemoocow]

Well ok, its not fair, but what is for Judd? Nothing

Its an amount that doesn't morgage the future of Carlton and probably all they can afford to give up. Pick 1 you would say is Kruzer, who by all accounts should be a 200+ game ruckman. Can Carlton give up the next Cox and a 200+ midfielder for Judd.

I think it's not so much is what is Judd worth, but but clubs can afford to give without compromising themselves.

 

[zero]

Well ok, its not fair, but what is for Judd? Nothing

Its an amount that doesn't morgage the future of Carlton and probably all they can afford to give up. Pick 1 you would say is Kruzer, who by all accounts should be a 200+ game ruckman. Can Carlton give up the next Cox and a 200+ midfielder for Judd.

I think it's not so much is what is Judd worth, but but clubs can afford to give without compromising themselves.

ben cousins is damaged goods and a potential liability. if the eagles could get anything like his trade value they would take it in a second, in a lot of ways, fevola is the same.

here is the chance to get fevolas worth and more, because as often as you bluebaggers say "fev is not on the table, take it or leave it", and fantasize about getting him for offcuts and rejects, chances are fev will be required to do the deal

if i was carlton, i would trade fev and pick 1 or 3 in an instant for judd. judd is precisely what you need, the best inside midfielder playing, quick, a superstar, a great finisher, on top of that he is the sort of captain that inspires his young teammates both on the field and off. an amazing work ethic and totally unflappable, in addition to being the best player going and the perfect fit, he would be the embodiment of what pratt is trying to instill in the new carlton, post pagan and post elliot.

likewise, fev is the sort of player you can quite happily get rid of. hes full of himself and has a miserable work ethic. he has all the talent in the world but at 27 has had precisely 2 seasons where he has actually lived up to anywhere close to it. he takes little responsiblity off the field by getting into fights and on the field dummy spits when things dont go his way on it. he would be the embodiment of what pratt is trying to eliminate from carlton.

perhaps i overrate waite and a few of your other key forwards and their ability to cover, but if i was pratt i would be angling for fev and pick 3 being the ultimate cost (ie, foxing now, saying "we couldnt let go of fev, hes a champ" and all that)

keeping pick 1, the midfield is kruezer, gibbs, murphy and judd, avg age 20.5. three number one picks and the best player in the comp, yours for 5 to 10 years.

honestly, can any one of you bluebaggers look at that midfield and not think....**** fev.

 

[mikeythemoocow]

you know what zero, your alright.

I compleately understand every point your making and do somewhat agree with you but...


Fev is a match winner too, and that always seems to be underrated here. In the end he may end up going, I wouldn't be that upset. The point is that Carlton should not just give whatever and just to get Judd. If they can get a good deal for #3 pick, say Didak, etc., then maybe Judd isn't the best option.

 

[plod]

Will Judd enjoy playing out his career for a bottom 4 side? Maybe he should have a chat to Nick Stevens.

 

[Monkeyboy]

Will Judd enjoy playing out his career for a bottom 4 side? Maybe he should have a chat to Nick Stevens.

???

You do understand the draft don't you? You realise where Franklin, Hodge etc came from. The same place Kennedy, Walker, Gibbs, Murphy, Kreuzer come from. Add Judd and Carlton will be playing finals for most, if not all of Judds last 7-8 seasons.

 

[Valve Bounce]

Carlton has more to offer

Like a position on the Board of Pratt's paper carton industry on retirement.

 

[plod]

???

You do understand the draft don't you? You realise where Franklin, Hodge etc came from. The same place Kennedy, Walker, Gibbs, Murphy, Kreuzer come from. Add Judd and Carlton will be playing finals for most, if not all of Judds last 7-8 seasons.

and you do understand how the AFL ladder works right??

Carlton
2007 15th
2006 16th
2005 16th
2004 11th
2003 15th
2002 16th
2001 5th

Hawthorn
2007 5th
2006 11th
2005 14th
2004 15th
2003 9th
2002 10th
2001 6th

Hawthorns bottom out after 2001 led to only 2 bottom 4 finishes. Since then the trend is upwards.

Carlton's bottom out after 2001 is still continuing and has led to 5 bottom 4 finishes including 3 wooden spoons. There is no upward trend.

Draft picks and Judd won't guarantee the Blues playing finals. Also note that the Hawks got Hodge by TRADING for pick #1 from Freo, not by finishing last.

 

[mikeythemoocow]

you do understand that 2007 and all those other date have already happened? They don't tell the future you know?

 

[plod]

So you think you will be playing finals next year?

 

[Valve Bounce]

and you do understand how the AFL ladder works right??

Carlton
2007 15th
2006 16th
2005 16th
2004 11th
2003 15th
2002 16th
2001 5th

Hawthorn
2007 5th
2006 11th
2005 14th
2004 15th
2003 9th
2002 10th
2001 6th

Hawthorns bottom out after 2001 led to only 2 bottom 4 finishes. Since then the trend is upwards.

Carltons bottom out after 2001 is still contining and has led to 5 bottom 4 finishes including 3 wooden spoons. There is no upward trend.

You forgot the Reverse Newton Dow Jones Theory: What goes down must come up.

 

[WakeUpPies]

guys, you do realize if carlton offered pick 3 +kennedy and WCE knocks if back, Judd can just go to the PSD and still go to carlton

 

[plod]

You forgot the Reverse Newton Dow Jones Theory: What goes down must come up.

I see your theroy and I give you St. Kilda.

 

[sweet17]

Q) What's the one thing WCE lack?

A) You'd have to say key forwards, yeah?

They have ample Mid stocks, good defenders and Seaby and Cox for years to come. Hansen is a so-so forward and Q is........well, not up to the rest of the clubs standards.

So, If this is the case then Kennedy is a very attractive proposition for them. He's 6'5", a great contested mark and great kick. He's only played 2 years and although he hasn't set the world on fire, he was being played ruck and forward pocket because of Fev and Lance and will have a sharp improvement in the next 2 years as most KPP go. He was pick 4 in the Murphy/Thomas/Ellis/Pendlebury draft.

Another attractive part of the deal is pick 3 which will get Morton, Larke medalist and 6'3" long kicking midfielder - sound like anyone? Fact is he won't be around after Carlton take him with 3 (someone else went at three, too) so if they think they can snap him at 4 or 5 they should think again.

The sweetner is Bower, or pick 20. Both would be future prospects and a gamble, but who isn't.

This is the only scenario I'd be 100% happy with. I worry that Judd's not keen on playing at the dome, that suggests to all that he isn't sure about his recovery.

Anyway, however it falls I'm confident Swann/Icke/Pratt will do the right deal for us.

 

[WakeUpPies]

You forgot the Reverse Newton Dow Jones Theory: What goes down must come up.

the Carlton Theory: what goes down stays down

 

[sweet17]

guys, you do realize if carlton offered pick 3 +kennedy and WCE knocks if back, Judd can just go to the PSD and still go to carlton

Correct Taz, you must remember the Stevens deal. From memory we put Pick 2 on the table for him and he and Port wanted Didak etc. By the time they discovered the didak/port deal wasn't going to happen, pick 2 had been removed, and a healthy contract drawn up ruling out the Dogs at pick 1 in the psd.

We could make it 1.5m for Judd's first year meaning Richmond will either have to pass, or unload some pretty handy players that the Blues could snap up at pick 2.

 

[CAUSE FOR CONCERN]

fact - judd wont screw the eagles
fact - pick 3 and kennedy wont do it woosh has already said that
fact - pick 3 and fev could be a possibility. (even this offer, there a bit iffy about). dont be surprised if the eagles go for the jugular here...
i think some people have forgotten judds best due to the injury.

 

[sweet17]

fact - pick 3 and kennedy wont do it woosh has already said that

What would we have expected him to say? "Yeah, sounds like a great deal, let's do it" ?????

He's after #1 and 3 which he simply won't get (I hope) Plenty of clubs COULD give more, but I doubt any will.

Thomas/Pendlebury/Pick - Nup
Ryder/Gumby - Nup
Buddy/Pick - Nup
Pick 2 and ?? - Nup!
Pick 4 and Brock/pick 21 - Nup!

All of a sudden pick 3/Kennedy and either Bower or 20 is looking pretty decent, yeah?

Remember, Pratt didn't get $5 Billion by offering people a deal and leaving it on the table while they went shopping.

 

[plod]

fact - judd wont screw the eagles

fact - he is already screwing them by leaving

 

[WakeUpPies]

dude if WCE try to screw any club over, as long as judd doesn't mind going to carlton he should just tell WCE to **** off