Chris Judd - The Crime and the Punishment - 4 Weeks

[Pedro59]

My point exactly your points are indefensible to common logic sunshine but by all means dream on.

Still no addressment of the points I raised ?

 

[Ron The Bear]

Judd's Manager is saying its an AFL conspiracy to "get" him

Fairly serious allegation, that Anderson interfered in what is supposed to be an independent process. I mean, we all suspect it happens, but for a licensed person to say it...

 

[eaglespremiers]

I think the penalty was fair Judd should cop it sweet.. I also hope Carlton takes some disciplinary action against Judd because he is our captain and should know better.. He has basically ended our season because without Judd our chances of making the top 8 have just diminished. A very selfish act Judd and i have lost alot of respect for the captain of my beloved Blues.

An extra three weeks imposed suspension, perhaps?
Surely that would increase your chances of making the top 8.

 

[H00LIGAN HAWKER]

Look at it another way - had Judd intended to hurt/injure Adams, knowing that he was pinned by Carrazzo, surely he would have grabbed Adams arm USING BOTH HANDS, and tried to drag the arm up behinfd his back. But he didn't.

If Wellingham had of intended to hurt/injure Simpson, surely instead of laying a late bump he would have dragged a chair, duct tape, a knife, some petrol and a radio out on to the field and really gone to town on him! But he didn't.

Don't think the tribunal considers how a player could have done more damage, just get assessed on what has happened.

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

I'm trying to figure out what your point actually is, having read the OP several times
You seem to think Judd had no intention of hurting Adams, under the guise of "if only these things that didn't happen, happened"

That seems like a strange point

All anybody saw was Judd lifting and twisting the arm of a player, who was pinned to the ground and defenseless to do anything about it (hence he kicked out, maybe in pain, maybe in the act of trying to force Judd to let go)

What's your point again? Judd was trying to help him to his feet and just got it wrong?

 

[dumb]

You are a twat is what you are I mentioned sycophants - that's plural - when calling someone a name you need to make it singular of identify the target person by name - neither of which I have done. Take it to the sook board for heaven's sake.

lol. calling me a twat is only proving my point that as a carlton supporter, i'm not going to be able to discuss anything with you. agreeing with the suspension is not good enough for you. if i don't call judd a dirty dog, i'm filth.

 

[Tiger2709]

Thanks for addressing the actual points I am making(not a chicken wing lock -no intent) and its factual not opinion based
nice contribution mate

How can you judge his intent, he could have just grabbed the arm, he didn't he grabbed and wrenched it backwards, call the tackle what you want it was still a reportable offence, 4 weeks was about right.

 

[BarneyBent]

This is proof that media hysteria influences the (independent) tribunal

I'm a jujitsu instructor of 20 odd years experience and that was not a chicken wing arm lock
The chicken wing arm lock has a bent elbow and can not be executed from a standing position by holding on to the wrist FFS (other wise the opponent would simply roll or stand up

So if that technique doesn't exist how can Judd be accused of doing it deliberately?

Judd was simply trying to pull him off the ball and if the roo player was on his back instead of his stomach everyone could see it for what it was

If anything the other roo players trying to pull Judd off of him whilst he was still holding the arm would have been what would have caused any damage

Also Did this roo player have any prexisting injury in that same region?

Nope no intent at all to do damage and unfairly beaten up by the media

No great fan of Carlton or Judd but Carlton shoulsd have taken on the tribunal with science

Ah, no. Nobody is claiming Judd was trying to execute a "chicken-wing arm lock". Judd probably doesn't know what that is. "Chicken-wing" is a term being used loosely to describe the action. In fact, if he HAD tried to, he probably wouldn't be in trouble, because a well executed arm lock DOESN'T cause damage.

So the fact Judd didn't bend Adams' arm is not evidence that he didn't try to injury Adams, and could actually be used as evidence that he DID.

 

[Tiger2709]

Sorry... I read your post as you saying that he grabbed his team mates arm

my point of this thread is that it was an accident contributed to by the roos team mates and there was no intent to cause damage let alone do a chicken wing lock and he has been unfairly prosecuted by the media

Watch the video again, the Roos players moved on Judd after he had bent the arm back, they didnt cause this to happen.

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

had Judd intended to hurt/injure Adams, knowing that he was pinned by Carrazzo, surely he would have grabbed Adams arm USING BOTH HANDS, and tried to drag the arm up behinfd his back. But he didn't.

That's like arguing that if Hall had intended to hurt Staker, he would have started kicking him when he hit the deck

 

[bombermick]

Yet Barry Hall and Alistair Lynch are cute.

It's Judd's demeanour that most hate because they just don't get him, so we add a little extra "hate" loading on anything he does.
Having said that, some of his actions have certainly been questionable, but had they have been for West Coast and not Carlton, the frenzy would not have been quite as wild.

That's my point about us losing objectiveness.

The actions of Hall and Lynch were seen as more manly, although there's nothing brave about decking a guy who doesn't see it coming. There is a bit of glee in seeing Judd cop it, because like Woods he seemed perfect; though his record is already blemished.

He's an odd cat who is hard to like. He's aloof and isn't a man's man. Nothing wrong with that, but it shouldn't be surprising he isn't loved and is quickly turned on when he commits a dog act.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Yet Barry Hall and Alistair Lynch are cute.

It's Judd's demeanour that most hate because they just don't get him, so we add a little extra "hate" loading on anything he does.
Having said that, some of his actions have certainly been questionable, but had they have been for West Coast and not Carlton, the frenzy would not have been quite as wild.

That's my point about us losing objectiveness.

What do you mean they don't get him?

What's to get?

I'd say most of the hate is from the media talking him up to a MASSIVE degree and then everyone really scrutinizing his performances and then deciding that he's not worth the accolades he has received. I don't think it's about demeanour at all. He has a really neutral demeanour - there's not there to hate.

 

[blueblooded]

What a joke people questioning CJ's character, joke, if you have watched enough of Judd over the past 5 years as I have week in and out live you will see that he is the most negated player in the history of the game, he is mauled at every stoppage and if there was a rule for all and not one for Judd you'll realise that he should by the letter of the rule book get a free kick for intereference and or holding every time there is a bounce!....all good players get tagged that is true...none to the level of Judd and that's a fact...he's done well to lose his cool 2 or 3 times in his career in my opinion, he's that heavily watched by the opposition on the field i'd doubt he'd enjoy playing much!

 

[Inspector Malceski]

Yet Barry Hall and Alistair Lynch are cute.

It's Judd's demeanour that most hate because they just don't get him, so we add a little extra "hate" loading on anything he does.
Having said that, some of his actions have certainly been questionable, but had they have been for West Coast and not Carlton, the frenzy would not have been quite as wild.

That's my point about us losing objectiveness.

Judd also looks arrogant and smug

even with his demeanor list night, he seems its beneath him that he is even there!

 

[Bluelegs]

I thought he was accused of deliberately dislocating a players shoulder while he was defenceless. The act replicating a chicken wing. Who cares if the technicalities are wrong.

 

[doppleganger]

The Tribunal found it was Intentional Serious Misconduct, High Impact, Body Contact

If the MRP had graded it accordingly its 550 points

With 30% loading for a bad record 715 points

If he had accepted this then a 25% discount for plea gives 536 points & 5 weeks

But he did not accept that it was intentional or serious misconduct, so no discount and 7 weeks

The MRP by referring it direct to the Tribunal saved him 3 weeks

This is what the Carlton fans dont get.

By being referred to the tribunal, and actually allowing Judd to talk his way through events, he was able to somehow knock 3 weeks off the penalty he would have copped if the MRP procedure was followed.

The fact that Judd has prior's for this kind of behaviour has been glossed over, which goes against the intent of the current tribunal process.

Ziebell had a 2 week penalty turn into 4 due to his poor record and challenging the grading.
Wellingham had a 5 week penalty reduced to a 3, due to a good record and accepting the grading.

Judd didn't have any loading applied....blokes with form, repeat offenders like Judd, are supposed to cop an extra whack.........surprise surprise that Judd mysteriously escaped this loading.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

So your entire argument is that the hold was incorrectly named within the media? They were simplifying it so idiots could understand.
I did Jiu Jitsu myself for a while and im perfectly aware its not called a "chicken wing".
IMO labelling it a standing armbar or something closer to what it actually was makes it sound even worse as it sounds MORE like a martial arts move.

Come off it.

It's like people referring to a 'spear tackle' as one where the person is picked up and dumped on their head. A spear tackle is more of a front on driving your shoulder into the abdomen grabbing behind the thighs and smacking someone into the ground.
Does the incorrect nomenclature of this act have any bearing on the act itself? NO.

Im also wondering about your Jiu Jitsu credentials, you claim "wouldnt work in a Jiu Jitsu fight standing up one on one" ... but Jiu Jitsu rolls usually dont last long on their feet anyway (so how is that relevant) unless someone is going for a flashy submission take down, of course it wouldnt work standing up because usually your focus is taking it to the ground and getting control.

And no, its not a realistic submission due to where youd have to distribute your weight to get it to work, does that have any bearing on whether its a dangerous thing to do in this case? Not at all.

 

[Furn]

In jui jitsu you don't have another guy on top of your opponent so it doesn't really apply.

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

Well he does have priors.

Prior convictions?

 

[the_interloper]

I was just watching Above the Law and anyone know what the similarity with Steven Seagal and Judd is? They both got suspended!

 

[liam_13]

Just to clear something up, the doctors evidence was about as professional and unbiased as possible. All his answers were what he considered to be the truth, which is why some of the evidence seemed to go against Judd and some of the evidence went for Judd.

 

[SM]

Prior convictions?

Two accounts of eye gouging, yeah.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Look at it another way - had Judd intended to hurt/injure Adams, knowing that he was pinned by Carrazzo, surely he would have grabbed Adams arm USING BOTH HANDS, and tried to drag the arm up behinfd his back. But he didn't.

Just on this, he did have two hands on him, one on the bicep/elbow crook, and one on the wrist.

 

[Saintly31]

I cant believe Carlton didnt think to argue their case based on the fact that it wasnt a very well executed Jujitsu chicken wing arm lock.

Neither can I. I mean, Jiujitsu, 'chicken-wing' locks and AFL footy are so closely related that it makes sense that Judd should have been found not-guilty.

How this thread hasn't been closed or already in the Bay is astonishing - been a good laugh though...

 

[Hodgepodge]

According to Ratten, this kind of thing happens every week.