Injury Christian Petracca's injury - A disgrace he was allowed to come back on the field

[Sherrinator]

Some sports doctors are quite proficient in reading imaging before a radiologist finalises a report. Granted, CT w/ contrast is the gold standard in definitive spleen diagnosis. When I first started out as a sports trainer 44 1/2 years go, we had an opposition player receive a blunt trauma abdominal injury that was, as time progressed, clearly more than just winding. Called an ambulance because he was in all sorts of pain. One symptom was radiating left shoulder pain. I remember to this day the paramedic saying, "Guaranteed spleen laceration." He was right when confirmation came though later that day. I stored that away and it came in handy 42 years later in a state league match with the same clinical presentation. Also, some sports doctors have ultrasounds which will pick up free fluid in the abdominal cavity. May not give clear imaging of which organ is affected, but, free fluid demonstrates something is wrong. And, an ultrasound will pick up a rib fracture quite accurately.

No Doctor will put his balls on the line for that - unless clubs bully them

 

[fusion]

Some sports doctors are quite proficient in reading imaging before a radiologist finalises a report. Granted, CT w/ contrast is the gold standard in definitive spleen diagnosis. When I first started out as a sports trainer 44 1/2 years go, we had an opposition player receive a blunt trauma abdominal injury that was, as time progressed, clearly more than just winding. Called an ambulance because he was in all sorts of pain. One symptom was radiating left shoulder pain. I remember to this day the paramedic saying, "Guaranteed spleen laceration." He was right when confirmation came though later that day. I stored that away and it came in handy 42 years later in a state league match with the same clinical presentation. Also, some sports doctors have ultrasounds which will pick up free fluid in the abdominal cavity. May not give clear imaging of which organ is affected, but, free fluid demonstrates something is wrong. And, an ultrasound will pick up a rib fracture quite accurately.

Yep, good work in diagnosing the shoulder tip pain. That's what Bruce Reid asked Matthew Lloyd according to Lloyd's recollection. Free fluid in the abdomen can cause diaphragmatic irritation which leads to referred pain to the shoulder.

 

[fusion]

Retroactively installing these would be challenging due to space and radiation shielding (for CT and X-ray) requirements; then maintenance and quality control. Ultrasound imo is the one which can be used, handheld or portable devices, doesn’t need new massive infrastructure and is within the potential skill set of the doctors (so doesn’t need a specialist technician)

Edit: just heard Melbourne already used ultrasound which didn’t show the injury or free fluid (it is known that assessment immediately post injury may miss the bleeding as it hasn’t bled a lot by that time), so my comment re ultrasound is not as good as I thought it might be

I can't comment on what the Melbourne team did, as I don't know, but you are correct. There can be a slow bleed and ultrasound or even CT can miss things in the early stages. "FAST" ultrasound or "four quadrant ultrasound" can be used as a quick assessment. It's really operator dependent and I think accuracy can be dependent on the skill/experience of the person doing it. I know people who work in trauma centres/emergency departments who do it regularly.

I found an article on Tom Lonergan - he had 45 units of blood and was really in a life-threatening position:

It highlights why being in hospital is better than having a scan at a ground that might falsely reassure, if you're really that worried that you're ordering a scan.

So he cut the jumper up and gave me the green whistle (for pain relief) and I was lying there and I was just saying ‘Joffa, I just need some meds, I’m just struggling here mate’.

“He goes ‘we can’t, we need to scan you and find out what happened’.”

Lonergan said after heading to hospital initial scans didn’t reveal anything too sinister.

He remained in Geelong Hospital under observation and rang his parents — at home in Yarrawonga — to allay their fears.
I rang them and said ‘everything should be sweet, I think they’re just going to keep me in for observation’ and that was pretty much the last thing I remember until the next morning,” Lonergan recalled.

“It was about 5am and the buzzers were going off, I can remember the buzzers. It was bloody like (TV show) Grey’s Anatomy, things were going off here, there and everywhere.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/geelong/tom-lonergan-speaks-about-horrifying-injury-that-almost-cost-him-his-life/news-story/66b665731249bfd1471b8ca4096f1ff7

 

[madmadworld]

After what we seen of him. if a doctor would of poked with his Finger. he or she would've known he was unfit to return.
Days in ICU good grief.

 

[Polly]

Is it though? I think the club could’ve determined this was serious just by looking at who was visibly in agony IMO.

When a no-fuss tough player like Petracca is visibly in agony, then you gotta know something’s really off. Players like that don’t show pain quickly.

Players can say they’re fine all they like, but if their body language doesn’t match, then you have to take it seriously. I think Melbourne didn’t hand his injury well.

I agree, this boloney about not criticising the medicos is rubbish, they dropped the ball on this. One look at the vision and that type of impact to that area of the body and the distress he was in I would have had him subbed out and off to A&E immediately and I’m a regular numpty!

 

[VL3OJ]

AFL needs to stop being so tight and provide MRI/Ultrasound/X Ray machines at all stadiums, like what happens at NFL in USA

An MRI will set you back $1-2m but add another $1-$2m for installation (even if it was possible) and probably around $200k-$400pa in Opex and maintenance when you have the Epworth just down the road. Look forward to forking out double for your membership if we go down that route at all grounds. So does Darwin need one for their odd game?

What was required in this instance is an index finger attached to a doctor who is not in a conflicted position. Had that injury been to a second year peripheral player, they wouldn't have been back.

Easiest weekend rates gig for a radiographer ever. Sign me up

 

[kreuze_missile]

The minute a player is administered pain medication for the purpose of continuing to play football then duty of care is out the window.

Club doctors only care about keeping their athletes on the field. Player welfare only comes into consideration when it aligns with the interests of the club.

I genuinely don’t know how these doctors keep their licences - malpractice is on display every single week.

Club doctors need to go and be replaced with AFL doctors who focus exclusively on the welfare of the players.

If you are too hurt to play - you don’t play. Pretty ****ing simple.

 

[Muddiemoose]

An MRI will set you back $1-2m but add another $1-$2m for installation (even if it was possible) and probably around $200k-$400pa in Opex and maintenance when you have the Epworth just down the road. Look forward to forking out double for your membership if we go down that route at all grounds. So does Darwin need one for their odd game?

What was required in this instance is an index finger attached to a doctor who is not in a conflicted position. Had that injury been to a second year peripheral player, they wouldn't have been back.

Easiest weekend rates gig for a radiographer ever. Sign me up

Also the time factor
Could spend time doing the scan at the ground but if we are talking a severe injury better off just getting them to the hospital in the first place for the scan because it’s equipped to actually treating the injury straight away if needed

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Agree with Laura. Players try and push through injuries and niggles every week for many decades of footy.
Symptoms changed and this was the result.

 

[ant22]

The minute a player is administered pain medication for the purpose of continuing to play football then duty of care is out the window.

Club doctors only care about keeping their athletes on the field. Player welfare only comes into consideration when it aligns with the interests of the club.

I genuinely don’t know how these doctors keep their licences - malpractice is on display every single week.

Club doctors need to go and be replaced with AFL doctors who focus exclusively on the welfare of the players.

If you are too hurt to play - you don’t play. Pretty ****ing simple.

I think it runs a lot deeper than the club doctor and is a club by club issue.

Remember that Melbournes former club doc has made accusations of this exact type of behaviour from Goodwin and co and those accusations have been denied. This incident certainly validates the former docs comments. Perhaps Melbourne have bought in docs who help enable the coaches view on how this should happen.

 

[Glorfindel]

Does any stadium have an x-ray machine suitable for that diagnosis?

Fwiw . . . X-Ray only good enough to detect 1/3 of rib fractures.
Would need a CT.

https://www.jwatch.org/na44294/2017/06/13/chest-x-ray-misses-most-rib-fractures

 

[Glorfindel]

If the equipment is there...yes!

Where’s the duty of care to protect the players from radiation exposure!?

 

[Fadge]

Wow.

What an interview on 360 tonight.

Credit to all, specifically Petracca himself.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Wow.

What an interview on 360 tonight.

Credit to all, specifically Petracca himself.

Summary?

 

[Fadge]

Summary?

Watch it if you have access to it.

He got very emotional reflecting on what he went through in hospital, and the support he's been given by his immediately family, doctors, club and the broader AFL community.

There might have been tears.

 

[chestbrah]

Incredibly candid interview by Petracca. Seems to be truth to the rumours around his feelings towards Melbourne as well. He spoke really well.

 

[Scythe94]

Full interview

 

[Captivating]

The minute a player is administered pain medication for the purpose of continuing to play football then duty of care is out the window.

Club doctors only care about keeping their athletes on the field. Player welfare only comes into consideration when it aligns with the interests of the club.

I genuinely don’t know how these doctors keep their licences - malpractice is on display every single week.

Club doctors need to go and be replaced with AFL doctors who focus exclusively on the welfare of the players.

If you are too hurt to play - you don’t play. Pretty ****ing simple.

What if an AFLW player is given pain meds to deal with endometriosis before the game so she can play without discomfort?

What about cortisone in a joint?

Where's the line?

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I'm of the strong belief that if you're worried enough to want to xray a player, then you're worried enough that they should be sent to the emergency department.

This folks, is it in a nutshell.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Summary?

He said 'to be honest' about 500 times and 'fiance' about 300.

 

[HugeJohnson]

Full interview

Did Lachie Neale really need to be there for that?

 

[joy division]

He said 'to be honest' about 500 times and 'fiance' about 300.

He’s doing a lot of tears and media for a guy who chose to run back on to the field

 

[Glorfindel]

What if an AFLW player is given pain meds to deal with endometriosis before the game so she can play without discomfort?

What about cortisone in a joint?

Where's the line?

Technically Panadol & Nurofen are pain meds as well, and I used to take 2 of both each game regardless of whether I was carrying a niggle or not.