Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates pt3 - The Verdict

[Kurve]

Here is
- Claremont Murders - Part One and Part Two
- Media
- The Bunker
- Hey Bret? Stalking Claremont the book.
- Justice Hall's Decision 619 pgs

 

[Likeamystery]

How about being on a boat??

Looks very confident on that boat. Smiling too.

 

[Eaglette01]

Looks very confident on that boat. Smiling too.

Yep - BRE is a proven dead-set liar

Doubt BRE will reveal SS or let anyone into his dead brain - let him rot in jail I say - solitary confinement I say

No x-box No tv No computer No luxuries whatsoever - limited to family visits once a week

 

[BonzaRam]

The lies he told through the police interview were purposeful and motivated by self interest, there was no apparent reason for him to throw in that story about nearly drowning. As a sympathy ploy it was absolutely pathetic, less disciplined interrogators might have laughed at him.

He might not skindive regularly, that's something he could have taken a couple of holiday lessons on in a resort swimming pool. Bali maybe.

The point is, on his application for Telstra promotion in 1992 and after the Huntingdale attack he has water sports as enjoyable activities. Post arrest he wants the police to believe he doesn't go anywhere near the water because of something that happened to him pre 1988.

i wouldn't necessarily doubt the attempted drowning, or maiming, happened. Little brothers do stick up for their bigger sister/s and i can picture a little brother trying to drown someone who is harrassing his sister. I can also see him adapting the story to show being too weak to commit the crimes. If a little boy can take him down what chance does he have against young ladies? The doubt is in his claim of fearing water...

 

[Kurve]

i wouldn't necessarily doubt the attempted drowning, or maiming, happened. Little brothers do stick up for their bigger sister/s and i can picture a little brother trying to drown someone who is harrassing his sister. I can also see him adapting the story to show being too weak to commit the crimes. If a little boy can take him down what chance does he have against young ladies? The doubt is in his claim of fearing water...

The story he told was that he was giving the Huntingdale victim's little brother a shoulder ride. The Huntingdale victim was 17 yo at the time of the attack and it was before that.

I do believe he's a psychopath so everything he says imo should be assumed to be a lie unless or until there's corroborating evidence he's telling the truth. He told a lot of lies through that interview. Wife 2 also said "I was sick of the lies".

 

[Eaglette01]

NEWS

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10...-not-guilty-verdict-for-sarah-spiers/12770936

DPP will not Appeal the Not Guilty Verdict on SS

 

[BFew]

NEWS
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10...-not-guilty-verdict-for-sarah-spiers/12770936
DPP will not Appeal the Not Guilty Verdict on SS

The prosecution had 21 days to appeal against that decision, but today confirmed it will not do so, marking the end of the line for the Spiers family who had hoped the long-running trial would deliver them justice.

Well that solves one debate on here about when the countdown for the 21 days started
Unless the start date is different for the prosecution and defence?

 

[BFew]

No appeal from prosecutors in Claremont serial killer case acquittal

Claremont serial killer prosecutors will not appeal Bradley Robert Edwards’ acquittal for the murder of Sarah Spiers.

www.news.com.au

The Director of Public Prosecutions had 21 days to file an appeal, but that period has now lapsed.
It means strong new evidence - such as the discovery of Ms Spiers’ remains - will be required for a new trial to be held.

 

[BFew]

21 days starting now for prosecution or defence appeals in this case says Tom Percy (Nine news special)

Complete silence from the West Australian newspaper on the 21 days running out today.

 

[Im New]

Well that solves one debate on here about when the countdown for the 21 days started
Unless the start date is different for the prosecution and defence?

From the same ABC article:


Edwards is due to be sentenced in December for the murders of Ms Rimmer and Ms Glennon, as well as violent, sexually motivated attacks on two other women.

He will then have 21 days to lodge his own appeal against the guilty verdicts. However, that window could be extended to allow for the Christmas and New Year break.

 

[ms finch]

The story he told was that he was giving the Huntingdale victim's little brother a shoulder ride. The Huntingdale victim was 17 yo at the time of the attack and it was before that.

I do believe he's a psychopath so everything he says imo should be assumed to be a lie unless or until there's corroborating evidence he's telling the truth. He told a lot of lies through that interview. Wife 2 also said "I was sick of the lies".

I agree completely about the “lying until proven otherwise”. At the very least I think everything he says will be twisted and exaggerated to suit his agenda at the time, but a lot of it in my view will also be outright lies. I can see the benefit to him of making up the drowning story, and I see nothing to support the idea that it left him with a fear of water.

I really feel for his second wife. What a nightmare she must have lived. And then she left and the nightmare got WORSE. Poor woman moves out terrified for her life and then a year or so later police turn up like, “Hello, you know your husband the not very nice guy? Well, we think he is also the Claremont Serial Killer.” I would have literally wet myself.

 

[zedx]

Looks very confident on that boat. Smiling too.

Definitely would not be looking like that if he was 'afraid' of water - last place you would want to be.

 

[Kurve]

I'm just going to leave this here because I THINK or hope we might find out what he was doing between February and October in 1988.

You can see here how many times he targeted specific houses and that's just what we know of. BRE isn't just a random opportunistic prowler although that factors in, he was targeting someone in at 61 Huntingdale Road. He went there at least four times. There would be many, many times he wasn't seen.

• #74

Mid January 76 Harpenden Street. Theft from clothesline.

21 January 1988, 3.10am Lot 3 Huntingdale Road. Attempt break & enter. Disturbed & ran.

21 January 1988, 4.10 am. 61 Huntingdale Road. Break & enter. Caught in the bedroom. Disturbed & ran.

23 January 1988, 9.00 pm 61 Huntingdale Road. Attempt break & enter. Disturbed & ran.

28 January 1988, 9.30 pm. 61 Huntingdale Road. Spying. Disturbed & ran.

Late Jan & early Feb 1988. Lot 1401 Bullfinch Street. Theft from clothesline.

11 February 1988, 1.00 am, Lot 1386 Bullfinch Street. Break & enter. Disturbed actually in the master bedroom & ran.

11 February, 1988. 2.00am 61 Huntingdale Road. Attempt break & enter. Disturbed & ran.

15 February, 1988. Address suppressed. Break & enter. Attacked. (Ran at risk of witnesses/help near)

THE 8 MONTH GAP Departed Australia 18 April 1988, returning on 2 May 1988.

* (20 June 1988. Julie Cutler disappeared, last seen 12.30am. Her car is found in the sea at Cottesloe. Nobody saw a thing.)

8 October, 1988. 78A Harpenden Road, Huntingdale. Break & enter. Attacked. (Ran at risk of witnesses/help near)

 

[ms finch]

I'm just going to leave this here because I THINK or hope we might find out what he was doing between February and October in 1988.

You can see here how many times he targeted specific houses and that's just what we know of. BRE isn't just a random opportunistic prowler although that factors in, he was targeting someone in at 61 Huntingdale Road. He went there at least four times. There would be many, many times he wasn't seen.

• #74

Mid January 76 Harpenden Street. Theft from clothesline.

21 January 1988, 3.10am Lot 3 Huntingdale Road. Attempt break & enter. Disturbed & ran.

21 January 1988, 4.10 am. 61 Huntingdale Road. Break & enter. Caught in the bedroom. Disturbed & ran.

23 January 1988, 9.00 pm 61 Huntingdale Road. Attempt break & enter. Disturbed & ran.

28 January 1988, 9.30 pm. 61 Huntingdale Road, Huntingdale. Caught spying. Disturbed & ran.

Late Jan & early Feb. Lot 1401 Bullfinch Street, Huntingdale. Theft from clothesline.

11 February 1988, 1.00 am, Lot 1386 Bullfinch Street, Huntingdale. Break & enter. Disturbed actually in the master bedroom & ran.

11 February, 1988. 2.00am 61 Huntingdale Road, Huntingdale. Attempt break & enter. Disturbed & ran.

15 February, 1988. Address suppressed. Break & enter. Attacked. (Ran at risk of witnesses/help near)

THE GAP. WHERE WAS HE? IN A PSYCHIATRIC WARD?

(20 June 1988. Julie Cutler disappeared, last seen 12.30am. Her car is found in the sea at Cottesloe. Nobody saw a thing.)

8 October, 1988. 78A Harpenden Road, Huntingdale. Break & enter. Attacked. (Ran at risk of witnesses/help near)

Wow. That is amazing of you to have gone back and found that from when it was mentioned. Thank you.

My observations:

I agree 100% he was targeting someone at 61 Huntingdale Rd. That really jumps out. It wasn’t random, he was stalking the particular occupant/s of that house. So that actually gives rise to a propensity to shall at other times, including with Julie Cutler (and others such as Jane theoretically).

The second thing that jumps out at me is that he went back to Harpenden Rd after his hiatus. It’s not like he got frightened away from the area or his activities permanently.

Was he operating somewhere else? It would be interesting if perhaps he was sent away for a period of time to stay with a relative, and whether there are a spate of similar crimes in that area. Or perhaps he just too frightened to operate there for a while after nearly being caught with the Huntingdale attack and dropping the kimono and moved locations. But then, why come back if he was frightened?

Telstra records would surely show where he was for that period of time, at least whether he was working.

 

[BFew]

THE GAP. WHERE WAS HE? IN A PSYCHIATRIC WARD?

 

[2006_Eagles]

Listening to the BRE interview reminded me a lot of the Chris Watts one

 

[ms finch]

Listening to the BRE interview reminded me a lot of the Chris Watts one

Now that you say it, I see what you mean. For me they both seem disconnected from what they are saying and involved in. As though it is all intellectual, rather than them having any sort of emotion attached.

 

[zedx]

Listening to the BRE interview reminded me a lot of the Chris Watts one

typical signs of a psychopath, detachment and lies.

 

[ms finch]

I'm just going to leave this here because I THINK or hope we might find out what he was doing between February and October in 1988.

You can see here how many times he targeted specific houses and that's just what we know of. BRE isn't just a random opportunistic prowler although that factors in, he was targeting someone in at 61 Huntingdale Road. He went there at least four times. There would be many, many times he wasn't seen.

• #74

Mid January 76 Harpenden Street. Theft from clothesline.

21 January 1988, 3.10am Lot 3 Huntingdale Road. Attempt break & enter. Disturbed & ran.

21 January 1988, 4.10 am. 61 Huntingdale Road. Break & enter. Caught in the bedroom. Disturbed & ran.

23 January 1988, 9.00 pm 61 Huntingdale Road. Attempt break & enter. Disturbed & ran.

28 January 1988, 9.30 pm. 61 Huntingdale Road. Spying. Disturbed & ran.

Late Jan & early Feb 1988. Lot 1401 Bullfinch Street. Theft from clothesline.

11 February 1988, 1.00 am, Lot 1386 Bullfinch Street. Break & enter. Disturbed actually in the master bedroom & ran.

11 February, 1988. 2.00am 61 Huntingdale Road. Attempt break & enter. Disturbed & ran.

15 February, 1988. Address suppressed. Break & enter. Attacked. (Ran at risk of witnesses/help near)

THE GAP. WHERE WAS HE? IN A PSYCHIATRIC WARD?

* (20 June 1988. Julie Cutler disappeared, last seen 12.30am. Her car is found in the sea at Cottesloe. Nobody saw a thing.)

8 October, 1988. 78A Harpenden Road, Huntingdale. Break & enter. Attacked. (Ran at risk of witnesses/help near)

I was just having a look at these locations. Apologies if this has been brought up before, but when Edwards bought the house in Fountain Way, he was buying a house literally in the middle of his prowling territory.

Fountain Way intersects with Harpenden St, which itself intersects with Huntingdale Rd, which runs parallel to Fountain Way a couple of streets away.

In map:
Yellow - Fountain Way
Blue - Harpenden St
Red - Huntingdale Rd

 

[BFew]

The other thing we might take from this is that on at least two of these occasions Wife 1 saw BRE in Rockingham, it was probably through the week. So unless he was on short holidays or had an RDO/sicky at that time, he could move around quite freely in his Telstra job.
Marsha was killed through the day on a week day and was so was Gerard.

Don't forget BRE's 3 months Telecom Long Service Leave that would have accrued after 10 years continuous work for Telstra
(That could have been taken in full or in part, at the earliest from approx. end of January 1996 from near to the long weekend that Sarah Spiers disappeared. Noting that he might have already taken some earlier than this if he was allowed to take some of it under either normal or special/approved circumstances)

That the trial made no mention on what happened to all of his Long Service Leave and when he did or did not take it, is most intriguing.

Possibly a sign that his initial long service leave taken might be more relevant to cold cases, other than those he was charged for, or pleaded guilty too.

If I was to hazard a guess as to when BRE most likely took his up to 3 months accrued long service leave from not before late January 1996, I would guess it would have been during the Perth non-summer months, between April and October, when he might have migrated to a warmer climate in WA, NT, QLD or to a Country to the North of us, or France where his 2nd wife's family came from. Because the summer months in Perth were ripe/prime time for both his legal hobbies and pastimes, and his illegal/criminal ones.

 

[Kurve]

Don't forget BRE's 3 months Telecom Long Service Leave that would have accrued after 10 years continuous work for Telstra
(That could have been taken in full or in part, at the earliest from approx. end of January 1996 from near to the long weekend that Sarah Spiers disappeared. Noting that he might have already taken some earlier than this if he was allowed to take some of it under either normal or special/approved circumstances)

Was there some mention through the trial that when they're on holidays or long service leave they have to hand their Telstra vehicle back?

I don't think employees are allowed to keep Telstra vehicles over long breaks.

 

[ms finch]

Was there some mention through the trial that when they're on holidays or long service leave they have to hand their Telstra vehicle back?

I don't think employees are allowed to keep Telstra vehicles over long breaks.

Yes, there is a statement in there that they could only keep the vehicles if the leave was less than one week.

 

[Kurve]

Yes, there is a statement in there that they could only keep the vehicles if the leave was less than one week.

Thanks, I thought I'd read that somewhere.

 

[BonzaRam]

Was there some mention through the trial that when they're on holidays or long service leave they have to hand their Telstra vehicle back?

I don't think employees are allowed to keep Telstra vehicles over long breaks.

The Admissions BRE made... from pages78,79 of the Verdict

15. I was assigned by Telecom Australia for work use and part private use, a white 1992 Toyota Camry Executive station wagon, VIN 6T172SV2109318479 and engine number 3S81590006 bearing the number plates 8IJ-235 from 26 October 1994 until 1 May 1996 other than during periods of annual leave exceeding one week.

That car was first licensed to Telecom Australia on 22 April 1992 and remained licensed to Telecom Australia until 15 May 1996.

16. As at 26 and 27 January 1996, I lived at 10 Fountain Way, Huntingdale. I was not on annual leave as at 26 January 1996 or 27 January 1996.

17. I was assigned by Telstra Corporation for work use and part private use, a white 1996 VS Holden Commodore Executive station wagon, VIN 6H8VSK35HTL917998 and engine number VH570913, bearing the number plates 9GP-082 from 29 April 1996 until 22 December 1998 other than during periods of annual leave exceeding one week. That car was first licensed to Telstra Corporation on 29 April 1996 and remained licensed to Telstra Corporation until 3 June 2000.

18. As at 8 and 9 June1996 I lived at 144 Gay Street, Huntingdale. I was not on annual leave as at 8 June1996 or 9 June 1996.

19. As at 14 and 15 March 1997, I lived at 144 Gay Street, Huntingdale. I was not on annual leave as at 14 March 1997 or 15 March1997. "

 

[BFew]

Was there some mention through the trial that when they're on holidays or long service leave they have to hand their Telstra vehicle back?
I don't think employees are allowed to keep Telstra vehicles over long breaks.

Correct. He wasn't meant to use his Telstra vehicle when it was over 2 weeks, and anything over 1 week and he was not meant to use the vehicle either.
IMO, whether he always complied with this is unknown and will be impossible to verify 100%.

The 619 page CSK BRE trial verdict document linked below confirms there was no mention of Long Service Leave in the Telstra records provided to WAPOL/Prosecution for the period from Feb 1995 to early 1997.
However, there is no guarantee that the information the Telstra person extracted from the Telstra archives was anymore complete and included all leave, or even any Long Service Leave, than the 2 incomplete and completely missing BRE's name/vehicles.

The verdict document also confirms that BRE would have most likely been working a 9 working day fortnight with a rostered day off every 2 weeks if he clocked up the hours required to do this every fortnight. Which means that he could have potentially had any weekday of the week off work every 2 weeks.

Relevant sections of the CSK BRE trial 619 verdict document
https://ecourts.justice.wa.gov.au/e...119-998b-269447363aed?unredactedVersion=False

p78-79 BRE Admissions 15. & 17. about his part‑private use agreement Telstra vehicles states

I was assigned by Telecom Australia for work use and part private use ... other than during periods of annual leave exceeding one week.

p124

if a person with a part‑private use agreement went on leave and the vehicle went into the pool the number plate surround stayed on

p127

If an employee went on annual leave for over two weeks then the vehicle had to be left at the place of work.

p130

Most of the Telstra field technicians worked a standard roster, from 8.00 am to 4.40 pm each day, which enabled them to have a rostered day off once a fortnight. The rostered days off were staggered by the manager of the teams so that everyone did not have the same day off. In the mid-1990s both Mr Kinnear and the accused were field technicians.

p134

Mr Van Rullen was asked about the conditions of employment for Telstra employees. He said that employees who had signed an employee agreement worked a nine-day fortnight, which was 8 hours and 10 minutes a day. The employees on this arrangement had one day a week as a rostered day off. Others who worked a 10-day fortnight worked 7 hours and 21 minutes a day. Different technicians had different employee agreements. He thought that technical staff in the mid-1990s generally all worked a nine-day fortnight and worked from 8.00 am to 4.40 pm with a half-hour lunch break. Technicians worked overtime occasionally but not very often; if there was a lot of work, the technicians might work on their rostered day off as overtime.

p136

Mr Vomero said that the systems used by Telstra were as follows; between 1988 and 1997 the PERKINS HR system; ... The PERKINS system stored HR data, including position information, and some information about leave. Mr Vomero extracted some information about the accused including positions he held at Telstra, some of his travel history, the dates he took leave, compensation plans and pay information.

p137

Records regarding the accused's leave history show that the leave he took between 12 February 1995 and 15 March 1997 was recreation leave on 18 May 1995, 6 November 1995 to 29 November 1995, 4 November 1996 to 29 November 1996, sick leave on 4 May 1995, 18 July 1995, 24 July 1995, 25 July 1995, 22 February 1996, 29 May 1996, 26 August 1996, 9 October 1996, 17 October 1996, 28 October 1996, 29 October 1996, 31 October 1996, 6 February 1997, 7 March 1997 and bereavement leave on 15 January 1997.

p592

The accused said that at the time of his first marriage he had part‑private use of a Telstra work vehicle. He said that this meant that he could drive the vehicle after hours and on weekends. An amount was deducted from his wages for this use. He said that he would be allocated a car for a period of time, but it would have to be surrendered if he went on leave. On return from leave another car would be allocated.

 

[Kurve]

Correct. He wasn't meant to use his Telstra vehicle when it was over 2 weeks, and anything over 1 week and he was not meant to use the vehicle either.
IMO, whether he always complied with this is unknown and will be impossible to verify 100%.

The 619 page CSK BRE trial verdict document linked below confirms there was no mention of Long Service Leave in the Telstra records provided to WAPOL/Prosecution for the period from Feb 1995 to early 1997.
However, there is no guarantee that the information the Telstra person extracted from the Telstra archives was anymore complete and included all leave, or even any Long Service Leave, than the 2 incomplete and completely missing BRE's name/vehicles.

I would think if his leave and sick days were in the system, long service leave would also be in there. There is no date that I can find of when BRE started with Telstra but even if he was due long service leave, as a single man who clearly relied on that Telstra vehicle I don't think he took it until after he met Wife 2. Three months is a long time for even a slackass Telstra not to notice his vehicle should be in the pool and/or for another staff member to wonder if BREs getting special treatment and say something about it.

Can you convert long service leave to a cash payment and continue working? If so, that might have gone to the deposit on the house with Wife 2.