Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates pt3 - The Verdict

[Kurve]

Here is
- Claremont Murders - Part One and Part Two
- Media
- The Bunker
- Hey Bret? Stalking Claremont the book.
- Justice Hall's Decision 619 pgs

 

[GreyCrow]

me too, thats why I'm intrigued by the statement from yovich. although i cant see how that can lay grounds for an appeal.

Only scenario is if someone else is also implicated in some or all of the events

 

[Kurve]

Only scenario is if someone else is also implicated in some or all of the events

We weren't told if anybody else's DNA was on that kimono.

 

[BFew]

WAtoday live blog reports that BRE is giving away SFA on his state of mind or motivations.

'Despite Justice Hall ordering a psychiatric report, he has revealed Edwards refused to speak with the doctor when they attended prison to see him.
The denial means it is unlikely Edwards will be providing any insights into his offending.'

 

[BFew]

We weren't told if anybody else's DNA was on that kimono.

For all we know, he might have pleaded guilty to Huntingdale, to protect someone else, knowing he was going down for Karrakatta, and to try and ensure that that someone else did not end up in jail too.

 

[BFew]

The State has requested that the Judge make a rare order that Edwards never be released.

 

[Pamcake1]

Prosecutor Carmel Barbagallo is asking for a life sentence. That is all he deserves, never to walk as a free man again.

 

[BFew]

Is BRE possibly going to try and appeal on the basis that the State (via WA Police) were so incompetent, that they did not arrest him after his Huntingdale crime(s), that he should have been punished for these crimes decades ago, and if so, would have successfully been rehabilitated to the point where he would not have committed any of his subsequent offences he is now facing a life sentence for?

 

[zedx]

so......

"If there is any suggestion he no longer presents a danger to the community then we refer to some of the evidence we sought to have submitted to the trial, which Your Honour excluded."

She explained the evidence included the Forced Entry pornography film which depicts the rape and murder of women, BDSM pornography found at his address, internet searches found on his computer depicting sexual violence against women, and violent erotic stories found on his computer which he was editing in the days before his 2016 arrest.

 

[zedx]

Is BRE possibly going to try and appeal on the basis that the State (via WA Police) were so incompetent, that they did not arrest him after his Huntingdale crime(s), that he should have been punished for these crimes decades ago, and if so, would have successfully been rehabilitated to the point where he would not have committed any of his subsequent offences he is now facing a life sentence for?

I doubt it....
She said the murders showed a clear progression of offending for Edwards, from burglar to rapist to murderer.

 

[Pamcake1]

Is BRE possibly going to try and appeal on the basis that the State (via WA Police) were so incompetent, that they did not arrest him after his Huntingdale crime(s), that he should have been punished for these crimes decades ago, and if so, would have successfully been rehabilitated to the point where he would not have committed any of his subsequent offences he is now facing a life sentence for?

Tell him he's dreaming.

 

[Krusty Crab]

Just trying to think back as to how I at one point, thought he would say the kimono came from his house but kind of forgot about it when he plead guilty to the Huntingdale attack.

what would that get him though? saying he didnt steal the kimono wont save him a charge of theft as he hasn't been charged on that. if he says the kimono was from his house, and thats why it had his DNA on it, then how will that help when the Kimono he has then admitted was in his possession at his house, suddenly turns up at the site of a crime he has plead guilty to, at the time of said crime? surely that would just solidify the case? if he is going to claim the kimono turned up in a legal and logical manner to remove it from evidence, then why admit guilt for the huntingdale attack?

 

[zedx]

what would that get him though? saying he didnt steal the kimono wont save him a charge of theft as he hasn't been charged on that. if he says the kimono was from his house, and thats why it had his DNA on it, then how will that help when the Kimono he has then admitted was in his possession at his house, suddenly turns up at the site of a crime he has plead guilty to, at the time of said crime? surely that would just solidify the case? if he is going to claim the kimono turned up in a legal and logical manner to remove it from evidence, then why admit guilt for the huntingdale attack?

it has already been stated somewhere that the police know who's clothes line the kimono was STOLEN from.

 

[BFew]

The State has requested that the Judge make a rare order that Edwards never be released.

Yovich's reported (rightly or wrongly) response just now, appears to imply that Edwards accepts his guilt on Jane and Ciara's charges.

WAtoday Live Blog
'"We accept that the killings were planned, that they were premeditated, that they were unprovoked and inexcusable.'

 

[Krusty Crab]

For all we know, he might have pleaded guilty to Huntingdale, to protect someone else, knowing he was going down for Karrakatta, and to try and ensure that that someone else did not end up in jail too.

if he plead guilty to save someone else, then why raise the issue with the kimono? wouldnt it be best to keep silent about it to continue the protection of the accomplice? im starting to wonder if yovich is going to challenge the guilty plea for huntingdale on a legal technicality, and if that happens, claim the kimono was left at the house previous, possibly when BRE was there for a swim, or his brother borrowed it and left it there. take the guilty plea out, and remove the idea that the kimono was dropped during the offence, i think it would be hard for the state to prove he committed that offence.

 

[zedx]

"....He said he also accepted the impact the women's deaths has had on their families, but did not accept the impact on the wider community could be a consideration when determining his sentencing...."
Come on you have to be kidding!! The whole state of WA has been impacted !!

 

[BFew]

The whole state of WA has been impacted !!

Not all the WA community impacted is currently all quarantined in the State of WA.
Some of the WA community that has been affected by this no longer reside in WA.
And pre-COVID, a lot of the historical WA community resided overseas too.

 

[BFew]

if he plead guilty to save someone else, then why raise the issue with the kimono? wouldnt it be best to keep silent about it to continue the protection of the accomplice?

Maybe he is conflicted from being in two minds about protecting anyone (if there actually is anyone to protect)?

 

[BFew]

WAtoday live blog
'11.35am
Court briefly adjourned for Judge to decide Edwards' fate
Justice Hall has adjourned the court for 30 minutes to make his final decision on what sentence he will impose on Edwards.
It will resume at midday.'

 

[Kurve]

WAToday live blog.

11.35am
Court briefly adjourned for Judge to decide Edwards' fate
Justice Hall has adjourned the court for 30 minutes to make his final decision on what sentence he will impose on Edwards.
It will resume at midday.

11.33am
1990 report found Edwards' suppressed his anger 'with a risk it could one day 'explode'
Mr Yovich has completed his submissions.
Justice Hall has noted Edwards' refusal to participate in a psychiatric report means he has "limited information about his background" for the purpose of sentencing.
He has asked if Mr Yovich opposes him relying on the findings of a pscychiatist's findings in 1990, following Edwards' attack on a social worker, that he controlled and repressed his emotions.
"[He said] there was a risk if [Edwards] didn't find ways of expressing his emotions, they would be released in some explosive way," he said.
Mr Yovich argued, due to the time that had passed since the report, the report should not be given weight.


11.21am
Defence arguing 'rare and exceptional' never to be released order not warranted
Ms Barbagallo has finished her submissions.

Defence lawyer Paul Yovich has now begun giving his submissions.
He said Edwards' accepts he is facing a life sentence for the murders of Jane and Ciara.
He said he also accepted the impact the women's deaths has had on their families, but did not accept the impact on the wider community could be a consideration when determining his sentencing.
"The wider community impact of the offences is a matter than has arisen substantially because of the degree of attention received," he said.
"It's not a factor that bears upon its seriousness."
He said he accepted the rape and sex attack crimes were at the serious end of offending.
Addressing the state's request Justice Hall order Edwards never be released, he referred to the rare order, which has only been made once in WA since being introduced in 2008, as "drastic and exceptional".
"To intentionally kill another human being is the worst crime a person can commit," he said.
"What Your Honour must do of course ... is to compare the incomparable, to judge the most serious, the most awful, the most impactful human behaviour, and pick out those features that make it so. It is not an easy task.
"We accept that the killings were planned, that they were premeditated, that they were unprovoked and inexcusable.
"We accept the last moments of the lives of Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon must have been terrifying, no question about that, that again is a feature common to murders - that the victims know they might die, that their last moments are moments of terror.
"The disregard and treatment of the victims after their deaths ... again are features that are not unique or even unusual."
Mr Yovich has questioned whether the facts of this case meet the 'never to be released' threshold, saying Justice Hall would have to decide where on the "spectrum of the worst example of human behaviour" this case fits.
He said he did not make these points to "devalue the lives of the deceased" or the impact their deaths had on their families.
Lee Rimmer, Jane's sister, appears emotional as she is sitting in court.
Mr Yovich is now discussing the violent pornography found on Edwards' computers at the time of his arrest, which was ruled inadmissible at trial.
"We submit the pornography evidence is a red herring, it is not evidence that showed the offender was a danger to commit offences of the same type," he said.
"Between 1997 and 2016 he committed no other offences."
Mr Yovich accepted Edwards had not shown any remorse for his crimes, and that there were limited mitigating factors to be considered during his sentencing.
He has argued a life sentence with a lengthy non-parole period is appropriate - noting Edwards' is 52 years old and would likely die in prison.
Justice Hall has noted Edwards committed these offences when he was under 30 years old.
"Had he been caught and convicted at the time he would have faced a lengthy term then," he said.
"Because his identity as the perpetrator of these crimes was not discovered for many years, he had what some might think, the undeserved benefit of living his life, the best years of his life, in the community."
Mr Yovich accepted Justice's Hall's comments, adding Edwards will have to live with the "notoriety attached to him and his name forever."

10.57am
State requests Judge make rare order Edwards never be released
Ms Barbagallo is now going through the maximum penalties for Edwards' seven offences, being one count of break and enter dwelling with intent, two counts of aggravated sexual penetration without consent, two counts of deprivation of liberty, and two counts of murder.
For the break and enter, the maximum penalty is 14 years. For deprivation of liberty, the maximum penalty is 10 years, and for aggravated sexual penetration without consent is 20 years.
Murder is a life sentence, with a minimum non-parole period of 10 years.
She has now begun discussing the state's request Justice Hall make a rare order Edwards 'never be released' from jail.
"The state submits that in all of the circumstances in this case, an order the offender never be released is appropriate," she said.
"We say that this case is so serious, so rare, so exceptional, that the maximum available sentence is appropriate.
"In this case, more than almost all others that come before these courts, the community has a legitimate interest that the courts when confronted with this, will react accordingly."
She called Edwards' offending perverse and that there were no comparable cases in Western Australia for the sake of sentencing.
"Given the number of offences committed over a lengthy period of time and the nature of the offences, we say, like [Bedford murderer Anthony] Harvey, are collectively unspeakable crimes, and the effects it's had on this community over a lengthy period of time sets them apart from those were a non-parole period was imposed," Ms Barbagallo said.
Justice Hall has asked why Edwards should never be released, given others convicted of two murders have not been given 'never to be released' orders.
"What sets them apart is that he has engaged in this behaviour on multiple occasion, and the offending even before Jane was serious it warrants a lengthy term of imprisonment," she said.
"[The murders] resulted in the undermining of a community safety, so these offences, like no other, have had an impact on this community and has changed community behaviours, family, women, mothers, parents behaviours, as to how their young adult children were to behave and the vigilance and the fear that it brought to a community."
Less
10.41am
Edwards' refused to speak with psychiatrist to provide insight into offending
Ms Barbagallo is now going through Edwards' murders of Jane and Ciara.

"The offending was not spontaneous, it was planned, premeditated, cold, calculated and repeated," she said.
"[For Jane] it must have been utterly traumatic ... she died trying to defend herself," she said.
"The last moment of Ciara Glennon's life, a woman who was a stranger to the offender, must have been unspeakabley awful, she died fighting for her life."
Ms Barbagallo said it was only be "a miracle" that the women's bodies were eventually found, despite Edwards' attempts to conceal them.
She said the murders showed a clear progression of offending for Edwards, from burglar to rapist to murderer.
"The state's submission is there are no mitigatng factors," Ms Barbagallo said, adding while Edwards pleaded guilty in relation to two crimes, the change in plea came three years after his arrest.
She also said Edwards continued to deny the murders and had no remorse.
'There's nothing to suggest that the offenders interest in rape and murer of women has abated," she said.
"If there is any suggestion he no longer presents a danger to the communtiy then we refer to some of the evidence we sought to have sumbited to the trial, which Your Honor excluded.
She explained the evidence included the Forced Entry pornography film which depicts the rape and murder of women, BDSM pornography found at his address, internet searches found on his computer depicting sexual violence against women, and violent erotic stories found on his computer which he was editing in the days before his 2016 arrest.
Despite Justice Hall ordering a psychiatric report, he has revealed Edwards refused to speak with the doctor when they attended prison to see him.
The denial means it is unlikely Edwards will be providing any insights into his offending.

Claremont killer sentencing LIVE updates: Bradley Edwards sentenced to minimum 40 years in prison

The sentencing is likely to include the reading of victim impact statements, a summary of Bradley Edwards' life circumstances and - if he has agreed to take part in a psychiatric report ordered by the judge - an explanation for some of his offending.

www.watoday.com.au

 

[BFew]

Just before the court adjourned for 30 minutes

WAtoday live blog
'11.33am
1990 report found Edwards' suppressed his anger 'with a risk it could one day 'explode'
Mr Yovich has completed his submissions.
Justice Hall has noted Edwards' refusal to participate in a psychiatric report means he has "limited information about his background" for the purpose of sentencing.
He has asked if Mr Yovich opposes him relying on the findings of a pscychiatist's findings in 1990, following Edwards' attack on a social worker, that he controlled and repressed his emotions.
"[He said] there was a risk if [Edwards] didn't find ways of expressing his emotions, they would be released in some explosive way," he said.
Mr Yovich argued, due to the time that had passed since the report, the report should not be given weight.'

Based on that, I'd argue that BRE's refusal to participate in any medical assessment to assist the Justice system assess his risk to both the Correctional services community and the general public, should result in everyone assuming a worst case scenario about the risk of BRE, until he starts cooperating, and stops hiding stuff.

 

[Wombot]

Yovich's reported (rightly or wrongly) response just now, appears to imply that Edwards accepts his guilt on Jane and Ciara's charges.

WAtoday Live Blog
'"We accept that the killings were planned, that they were premeditated, that they were unprovoked and inexcusable.'

I don’t know much about law, but I presume that such comments are mentioned solely for the context of sentencing. They aren’t relevant to the defence of the charges. BRE has been convicted, so arguing his client’s claims of innocence is redundant. He’s not conceding anything, just addressing what his client has been convicted of and how that relates to the sentencing. But I’m not certain.

 

[BFew]

I now predict that Justice Hall will shortly after midday, announce that a very difficult BRE key treasure hunt is on the cards.

The key will probably be thrown in the same place that MH370 now resides.

 

[Krusty Crab]

Just before the court adjourned for 30 minutes

WAtoday live blog
'11.33am
1990 report found Edwards' suppressed his anger 'with a risk it could one day 'explode'
Mr Yovich has completed his submissions.
Justice Hall has noted Edwards' refusal to participate in a psychiatric report means he has "limited information about his background" for the purpose of sentencing.
He has asked if Mr Yovich opposes him relying on the findings of a pscychiatist's findings in 1990, following Edwards' attack on a social worker, that he controlled and repressed his emotions.
"[He said] there was a risk if [Edwards] didn't find ways of expressing his emotions, they would be released in some explosive way," he said.
Mr Yovich argued, due to the time that had passed since the report, the report should not be given weight.'

Based on that, I'd argue that BRE's refusal to participate in any medical assessment to assist the Justice system assess his risk to both the Correctional services community and the general public, should result in everyone assuming a worst case scenario about the risk of BRE, until he starts cooperating, and stops hiding stuff.

not sure if its permissible or not, but can yovich advise BRE not to partake of the psychiatric evaluation, with the hopes of limiting damaging info to try for a lesser sentence?

 

[Kurve]

Yovich's reported (rightly or wrongly) response just now, appears to imply that Edwards accepts his guilt on Jane and Ciara's charges.

WAtoday Live Blog
'"We accept that the killings were planned, that they were premeditated, that they were unprovoked and inexcusable.'

If so, that makes him getting all hung up over being accused of stealing a kimono even weirder.

 

[Wombot]

If so, that makes him getting all hung up over being accused of stealing a kimono even weirder.

Maybe leaving the door open for an insanity defence in an appeal. Maybe he’ll claim he can’t remember the crimes.