Unsolved Claremont Serial Killings - Case update: DNA discovery

[Reginald Perrin]

The more developments there are in this case, the more it makes you wonder how close to it the people are that have been investigating it.

 

[Power Raid]

The more developments there are in this case, the more it makes you wonder how close to it the people are that have been investigating it.

Looks like DNA has been an important development in many overseas cases like this one. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-led-innocent-man-spend-11-years-prison.html

Do we not have a DNA register here in Oz?

 

[Asapartyhat]

From what I understand (and I could be wrong) WA police have forensic evidence from the Claremont serial killer victim Ciarra Glennon linking that crime to a rape of a girl a few years earlier at Karrakatta cemetery
I would then presume that the police would have DNA from the Karrakatta cemetery rapist as the victim is reported to have gone directly to a hospital after the crime was committed.
Yet no arrest .
So I would have to assume that none of the suspects or persons of interest have provided a matching sample of anything.

I find it strange that so much has been made of nothing. I don't see how this is any closer to closing this case.

so yep.It seems likely that the police have no real leads on a suspect.Just the forensic evidence to arrest someone should they ever find that person.

 

[excaliburx]

The reaction that I've seen has been underwhelming. Maybe I'm not in the right places.

What does your comment about multiple personalities and IPs mean? Are you saying you think the killer is online, posting under different handles? That would make them a successful serial killer, but a failure at online manipulation.

BBW, is that your description or what you're ISO?

Underwhelming reaction? <shakes head> Have a look at the Websleuths thread on Claremont - burning the server up.

Something along those lines. Nothing real clever in trying to mask IP - only a debit or credit card transaction required from what I've seen. Different tools for different fools.

Malignant narcissism would be the diagnostic term. Weak cowardly mice a more common one.

Success? Failure?

I'm not sure how a layperson would define "success" at serial killing? Sounds pretty sick to me. Is that how serial killers actually want to remembered - as "successful" - how they want their children, family and friends to remember them? Or do they want to brand their family forever for perceived sins of the past, that they couldn't address normally? What excuses will they make? Something went a bit pete tong in childhood / early adolescence? Wasted opportunities in life? Didn't quite live up to others expectations or own potential? Mixed with the wrong crowd? Addiction? Or a combination? Born or taught? Interested to hear your thoughts Sutton, since you labelled it that way?

BBW+ - read my post above. You should be able to determine what it means. Snap.

ISO? <shakes head again>.

 

[excaliburx]

The DNA link could have come from a relative (son, cousin) of the offender. It could be for instance that the CSK has a son (who is now an adult) who has committed an offence and left DNA. The identity of the relative might not be known; left DNA at a burglary, DNA entered into database and familial match with CSK and Karakatta found. When police find the offender for the burglary they can find their man. Also possible of course that CSK has a son but did not know he had a son. In any case DNA does not lie and it is just a matter of time.

Familial DNA would be matched from a male or female perp to their relatives including sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, parents and cousins. If LE actually needed to go down that path.

Agreed - it is just a matter of time.

 

[Lou Deringer]

Familial DNA would be matched from a male or female perp to their relatives including sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, parents and cousins. If LE actually needed to go down that path.

Agreed - it is just a matter of time.

From what I can tell you believe the CSK is a bunch of people who are also trawling the internet and spreading disinformation about the case.

This sounds far fetched if you don't mind me saying. Who are these people? Where are the posting this information? Facebook? Other forums? This forum? And what untruths are they saying?

The latest in the media is a forensic link between the Karrakatta abduction and one of the CSK dump sites. The Karrakatta abduction was done by one guy. How do yoy propose a group was involved?

 

[Sutton]

Underwhelming reaction? <shakes head>

Something along those lines. Nothing real clever in trying to mask IP - only a debit or credit card transaction required from what I've seen. Different tools for different fools.

Malignant narcissism would be the diagnostic term. Weak cowardly mice a more common one.

Success? Failure?

I'm not sure how a layperson would define "success" at serial killing? Sounds pretty sick to me. Is that how serial killers actually want to remembered - as "successful" - how they want their children, family and friends to remember them? Or do they want to brand their family forever for perceived sins of the past, that they couldn't address normally? What excuses will they make? Something went a bit pete tong in childhood / early adolescence? Wasted opportunities in life? Didn't quite live up to others expectations or own potential? Mixed with the wrong crowd? Addiction? Or a combination? Born or taught? Interested to hear your thoughts Sutton, since you labelled it that way?

BBW+ - read my post above. You should be able to determine what it means. Snap.

ISO? <shakes head again>.

What the...? I'm not sure what the majority of your post means. Are you asking me how serial killers want their family to remember them? I don't know. I believe most serial killers (very few exceptions) are psychopaths, so they do not give two sh*ts how their family remembers them.

Serial killers are narcissistic. But they almost always measure beyond narcissism, and qualify as psychopathic on Hare's checklist (egomania being only one of four subsets on the list).

They do not care what you think or what I think or what their families think. They do not care if they are known as evil or how they are remembered in history. Regardless of what they say, they do not care.

A narcissist does care. A narcissist is a fake image, and maintaining that image is very important.

If you're asking what makes a serial killer, that's a discussion for another thread. Or you can pm me.

 

[Power Raid]

My punt is this case has effectively been solved by developments overseas.

The WA police are probably embarrassed and thus the poxy announcement re the DNA to demonstrate they had some involvement in solving the crime.

My tip, the criminal has started admitting to crimes.

 

[Sutton]

My punt is this case has effectively been solved by developments overseas.

The WA police are probably embarrassed and thus the poxy announcement re the DNA to demonstrate they had some involvement in solving the crime.

My tip, the criminal has started admitting to crimes.

Interesting. Can you give any clues as to where overseas?

 

[Shadowboxer70]

It was many moons ago. Ask nuit. Something about the equinox. Anagramslueths is full of time travellers and dna decoders and names that are so witless it's disturbing. 1303. Isn't that Thelema's addy? 88mph.. the speed needed to travel through time on some stupid movie. I bet I know which bike rider uses that handle. And green facemask. Got the pics here. J3. Sothis/Sirius/Sopdet

 

[Shadowboxer70]

I"m with X. Matter of time weak mice.

 

[excaliburx]

Are you asking me how serial killers want their family to remember them? I don't know. I believe most serial killers (very few exceptions) are psychopaths, so they do not give two sh*ts how their family remembers them.

Serial killers are narcissistic. But they almost always measure beyond narcissism, and qualify as psychopathic on Hare's checklist (egomania being only one of four subsets on the list).

They do not care what you think or what I think or what their families think. They do not care if they are known as evil or how they are remembered in history. Regardless of what they say, they do not care.

A narcissist does care. A narcissist is a fake image, and maintaining that image is very important.

I assume this was the checklist that you were referring to. Pathological lying, denial, deflection, grandiosity, relationship inadequacies, fantasy, promiscuity and antisocial behaviour right up there.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_Checklist

As with other mental disorders, psychopathy as a personality disorder may be present with a variety of other diagnosable conditions. Studies especially suggest strong comorbidity with antisocial personality disorder. Among numerous studies, positive correlations have also been reported between psychopathy and histrionic, narcissistic, borderline, paranoid, andschizoid personality disorders, panic and obsessive–compulsive disorder.

Not sure I agree with your comment that almost all serial killers are psychopaths.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath

Sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated. They are volatile and prone to emotional outbursts, including fits of rage. They are likely to be uneducated and live on the fringes of society, unable to hold down a steady job or stay in one place for very long. It is difficult but not impossible for sociopaths to form attachments with others. Many sociopaths are able to form an attachment to a particular individual or group, although they have no regard for society in general or its rules. In the eyes of others, sociopaths will appear to be very disturbed. Any crimes committed by a sociopath, including murder, will tend to be haphazard, disorganized and spontaneous rather than planned.

That's sounds like Karrakatta.

Psychopaths, on the other hand, are unable to form emotional attachments or feel real empathy with others, although they often have disarming or even charming personalities. Psychopaths are very manipulative and can easily gain people’s trust. They learn to mimic emotions, despite their inability to actually feel them, and will appear normal to unsuspecting people. Psychopaths are often well educated and hold steady jobs. Some are so good at manipulation and mimicry that they have families and other long-term relationships without those around them ever suspecting their true nature.

That sounds CSK.

And yet these crimes are linked.

Wonder what happens when sociopaths and psychopaths mix together? A plague of mice.

Where are the devils advocates?

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/29862071/dark-secret-twisted-the-mind-of-a-serial-killer/

"While their motivations differ, Dorrough fits the classic mould of the violent sexual predator who kills not for gratification but to experience power and control over others.

Experts believe this pattern of offending can be traced to traumas a killer has suffered in early childhood.

American research shows that about 75 per cent of serial killers suffered some extreme sexual, physical or emotional abuse as a child.

Their crimes are believed to be a way of reasserting the power they had lost over their lives."

You'd also think that a psychopath or sociopath would have had psychiatric treatment / support at some stage?

Mmm.

 

[Power Raid]

To think with all the investigation techniques available including DNA; this is how Britain caught a serial rapist and killer

http://www.crawleynews.co.uk/Crawle...r-Mark-Dixie/story-12587721-detail/story.html

I wonder if similar events will unfold with the CSK?


I also wonder why this guy wasn't convicted in Australia for his sexual crimes in Perth? and I wonder if he will be charged for his crimes in Spain? I wonder where else in the world he has committed similar offences?

 

[_Mike_]

You'd also think that a psychopath or sociopath would have had psychiatric treatment / support at some stage?

I don't think for a second that the CSK's are sociopaths, these crimes have been very carefully calculated and they've taken great lengths to blend in with the "norm"

Had the CSK been a sociopath they most likely would have stood out like the dogs proverbials.

 

[Shadowboxer70]

I'm with Mike. Ex some have traumatic childhoods and even bouts of paranoia from drugs and still have hearts of gold and wouldn't harm a fly. Wierd aye. Yet there are those who do exactly as you say, blend in and behind the scenes, the shadows of firelight dance the demons.

 

[Troubadour]

Why is it that each time a thread is opened on this it devolves into a combination of gibberish and nudge-nudge, wink-wink?

What about this case attracts the fringe element?

 

[Shadowboxer70]

Well it's Australia's Zodiac case. There are twists and turns and Alignments and rumours. What's not to grab someone's attention. There are players that have been collecting bits and pieces for years, There are those who have been so close it's not funny. I have heard this said before by a suspect in the second hand, "I think the public is going to be very shocked when this all comes out". I fully agree and think it's going to be world news. Far outweighing Ivan Milat and the like in details.

 

[_Mike_]

What about this case attracts the fringe element?

This particular case is prevalent across the internet and WA and has a tendency to attract theorists who either want to shoot down angles or make some unfounded proclamation to the identity of the CSK.

The last thread was closed a few months back as it got out of hand and we were fed up with the constant thread derailment. For the time being, this thread is walking on ice and as long as it doesn't digress to the levels of the former posters can continue with discussion the latest events.

 

[craigos]

This particular case is prevalent across the internet and WA and has a tendency to attract theorists who either want to shoot down angles or make some unfounded proclamation to the identity of the CSK.

The last thread was closed a few months back as it got out of hand and we were fed up with the constant thread derailment. For the time being, this thread is walking on ice and as long as it doesn't digress to the levels of the former posters can continue with discussion the latest events.

I give it a week, unfortunately.

This can't be "new" information, either, surely. To me this has been revealed as "new" in order to keep calls for a coronial inquest or the like at bay for another decade.

 

[88mph]

The Karrakatta incident is perplexing.

Why abduct someone, drag them to a van, then drag them out of a van into the cemetery, rape them, put them back in a van and drop them off somewhere??

If the CSK had a van, why not do the business in the van? All of the extra handling just increases the chance of getting caught.

Also, how does the girl know she was in the cemetery if she was blindfolded the entire time?

 

[Power Raid]

I don't think for a second that the CSK's are sociopaths, these crimes have been very carefully calculated and they've taken great lengths to blend in with the "norm"

Had the CSK been a sociopath they most likely would have stood out like the dogs proverbials.

Agree

The Western suburbs are very clicky and everyone seems to knows everyone.


Then again that is why he may have targeted the area as it is also a low crime area (other than break ins). That means there are little or no police on the beat or even on patrol. The other reason is it was hard to get a cab there as the fares would have all been short 5 minute rides around claremont, nedlands and peppe grove. Meaning there are loads of young girls taking the risk walking home under the influence.

 

[Power Raid]

The Karrakatta incident is perplexing.

Why abduct someone, drag them to a van, then drag them out of a van into the cemetery, rape them, put them back in a van and drop them off somewhere??

If the CSK had a van, why not do the business in the van? All of the extra handling just increases the chance of getting caught.

Also, how does the girl know she was in the cemetery if she was blindfolded the entire time?

yep bizzarre

and noise travels along way from that cemetery, especially at night. I would live 500m south of the cemetery and can hear clearly things on the other side another 200-400m such as the train station and the army barracks.

perhaps it was thought out but not thought out well. Perhaps that's why she survived but in the more remote places in Perth, he could escalate the crime.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

To think with all the investigation techniques available including DNA; this is how Britain caught a serial rapist and killer

http://www.crawleynews.co.uk/Crawle...r-Mark-Dixie/story-12587721-detail/story.html

I wonder if similar events will unfold with the CSK?


I also wonder why this guy wasn't convicted in Australia for his sexual crimes in Perth? and I wonder if he will be charged for his crimes in Spain? I wonder where else in the world he has committed similar offences?

You ain't just whistling Dixie my friend

 

[billywhizz]

The Karrakatta incident is perplexing.

Why abduct someone, drag them to a van, then drag them out of a van into the cemetery, rape them, put them back in a van and drop them off somewhere??

If the CSK had a van, why not do the business in the van? All of the extra handling just increases the chance of getting caught.

Also, how does the girl know she was in the cemetery if she was blindfolded the entire time?

she wasnt put back in van afterwards and dropped off, she either escaped from cemetery or was let go in cemetery.

 

[88mph]

she wasnt put back in van afterwards and dropped off, she either escaped from cemetery or was let go in cemetery.

That's what I thought initially too. Then last week one of the news stations reporting on the crime said the girl was dropped at a carpark nearby, it was from here she ran to the hospital.