Clarkson take your place among the great coaches of this club in Allan Jeans and John Kennedy Senior

[grumbleguts]

Buddy will be there tomorrow at the unofficial one. Always hated club events

He's waiting for all his Swans premiership reunions

 

[Scrads]

Last night there was no Clarko, Buddy, Cyril, Gunna, Fages at the event. I was glad to see other coaches/staff that have left and gone to other clubs at the event so the club can't have been that bad a place to work during that time.

Pretty obvious why and understandable that these 2 couldn't make it.

 

[CD Xbow]

The Hun reports it was all cool with Clarko and the players at the 2013 reunion - see here

 

[HairyO]

I was talking about our list.

And yeah at least some elements of the accusations have been confirmed and are just weird. Not making any judgements on all of them - that’s for others.

He ruined our list?
Boo
****ing
Hoo

He won 3 in a row in an era of equalisation when it should have been impossible. He then doubled down to win one more flag which the entire organisation was in favour of - but of course the oracle brains of BF knew was folly but only mentioned it after the fact.

The club were 100% behind the plan of pushing and only once it didnt work did they scramble to make it all about his bad decisions.

He is one of the greatest coaches ever and was treated like crap by Kennett based on personal hatred and nothing more. The club should be doing everything it can to make things better.

 

[Alite]

Clarko wants pick 3 as compo.

Information is that with inflating money the Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

deal (which is amazingly stupid) will not get that.

North say they will match the bid. So let them. !!

 

[Ned Ryerson]

He ruined our list?
Boo
*******
Hoo

He won 3 in a row in an era of equalisation when it should have been impossible. He then doubled down to win one more flag which the entire organisation was in favour of - but of course the oracle brains of BF knew was folly but only mentioned it after the fact.

The club were 100% behind the plan of pushing and only once it didnt work did they scramble to make it all about his bad decisions.

He is one of the greatest coaches ever and was treated like crap by Kennett based on personal hatred and nothing more. The club should be doing everything it can to make things better.

Boo ****ing hoo? Yeah, I like being successful and playing finals. Weird, I know. Clarko’s success can’t be used as a continual shield for his failures when essentially running our footy department when our list and gameplan turned into a disaster that he refused to correct from.

If I went and deliberately drove my car into the Yarra right now, do you think my wife is going to forgive me if I say ‘look I have successfully not driven my car into a lake for 25 years until today so you can’t be angry at me’.

Nuance is a great thing - I can be grateful for the 4 flags and still be disappointed at the absolute shitshow Clarko created from 2017 onwards that’s necessitated a rebuild that will see us likely go the better part of a decade without playing finals.

 

[HairyO]

Boo ******* hoo? Yeah, I like being successful and playing finals. Weird, I know. Clarko’s success can’t be used as a continual shield for his failures when essentially running our footy department when our list and gameplan turned into a disaster that he refused to correct from.

If I went and deliberately drove my car into the Yarra right now, do you think my wife is going to forgive me if I say ‘look I have successfully not driven my car into a lake for 25 years until today so you can’t be angry at me’.

Nuance is a great thing - I can be grateful for the 4 flags and still be disappointed at the absolute shitshow Clarko created from 2017 onwards that’s necessitated a rebuild that will see us likely go the better part of a decade without playing finals.

Every team which has continued success then has time struggling before rising up again.

The problem is, half of BigFooty would prefer failures but fantastic youth over a long period of success with an ageing team which then has to be rebuilt.

And the idea that Clarko didnt rebuild is garbage. It had started before the Mitchell plan came in when we started using 1st round picks instead of trading them. Once Rough got cancer, then Cyril retired and then Mitchell broke his leg it was obvious what direction we were heading.

It isnt just the visionaries of BF who saw it.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Boo ******* hoo? Yeah, I like being successful and playing finals. Weird, I know. Clarko’s success can’t be used as a continual shield for his failures when essentially running our footy department when our list and gameplan turned into a disaster that he refused to correct from.

If I went and deliberately drove my car into the Yarra right now, do you think my wife is going to forgive me if I say ‘look I have successfully not driven my car into a lake for 25 years until today so you can’t be angry at me’.

Nuance is a great thing - I can be grateful for the 4 flags and still be disappointed at the absolute shitshow Clarko created from 2017 onwards that’s necessitated a rebuild that will see us likely go the better part of a decade without playing finals.

I remember you having quite a bit of nuance re clarko as recently as just over a year or so ago when you wondered out loud something to the effect of “why is everyone suddenly so critical of this guy all of a sudden?’ Since then you’ve done a 180 and been one of his biggest critics on this forum.

As as been litigated a million times, we went for a topping up method that unfortunately did not work. Cyril retiring, rough getting cancer, the missing of 2-3 free agents we thought would come, JOM being half the player he promised to be, Tom breaking his leg, Chad’s injuries etc. It was a disaster, but had a few extra things gone our way we might have pinched one more and we’d be lauding this recent period and calling him a genius.

The hub year and 2021 were grim years, but there were a lot of factors that hurt us that year not least the aftermath of having a topped up squad that needed a major rebuild. Our list was in no man’s land and Clarko had too much loyalty to the guys we brought across from other clubs. Clarko’s time was truly done then and we needed a fresh voice to rebuild the list. But this revisionist history and likening it to driving a car into the Yarra is ridiculously unfair.

 

[theiaofseed]

Every team which has continued success then has time struggling before rising up again.

The problem is, half of BigFooty would prefer failures but fantastic youth over a long period of success with an ageing team which then has to be rebuilt.

And the idea that Clarko didnt rebuild is garbage. It had started before the Mitchell plan came in when we started using 1st round picks instead of trading them. Once Rough got cancer, then Cyril retired and then Mitchell broke his leg it was obvious what direction we were heading.

It isnt just the visionaries of BF who saw it.

Hawthorn didn't use a first round pick in 2011,2012,2013,2014,2016,2017,2018 at no stage did Clarkson ever show any interest in wanting to rebuild.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Hawthorn didn't use a first round pick in 2011,2012,2013,2014,2016,2017,2018 at no stage did Clarkson ever show any interest in wanting to rebuild.

Dude we finished top 4 in every one of those seasons bar 1 and won 3 flags. 2019/20 we did.

Fck me maybe the threepete really paper over the cracks.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I remember you having quite a bit of nuance re clarko as recently as just over a year or so ago when you wondered out loud something to the effect of “why is everyone suddenly so critical of this guy all of a sudden?’ Since then you’ve done a 180 and been one of his biggest critics on this forum.

As as been litigated a million times, we went for a topping up method that unfortunately did not work. Cyril retiring, rough getting cancer, the missing of 2-3 free agents we thought would come, JOM being half the player he promised to be, Tom breaking his leg, Chad’s injuries etc. It was a disaster, but had a few extra things gone our way we might have pinched one more and we’d be lauding this recent period and calling him a genius.

The hub year and 2021 were grim years, but there were a lot of factors that hurt us that year not least the aftermath of having a topped up squad that needed a major rebuild. Our list was in no man’s land and Clarko had too much loyalty to the guys we brought across from other clubs. Clarko’s time was truly done then and we needed a fresh voice to rebuild the list. But this revisionist history and likening it to driving a car into the Yarra is ridiculously unfair.

It was a lot longer than a year ago, but yes I used to be of the ‘but he won 3 flags’ and have changed my tune because I’ve seen the damage someone can do when they get free reign on a club because of their previous success.

And I know your excuses for Clarko - I just don’t think they absolve him of his late failures at our club. Our issues weren’t limited solely to list management either - our game style was so bloody awful for years.

 

[HairyO]

Hawthorn didn't use a first round pick in 2011,2012,2013,2014,2016,2017,2018 at no stage did Clarkson ever show any interest in wanting to rebuild.

I know. If you look at what I said we started rebuilding after Rough got cancer, Cyril retired and Mitchell missed an entire year with a broken leg.

Would you give up the 2015 GF and have started the rebuild earlier?

It was terrible the way we kept being so successful. Really hurt us in all those "Redo the 201x Draft" threads which mean way more than actual premierships.

I imagine the slightly older types in 1990 thinking we should have gone hard rebuild at the end of 1989 because we were never really a chance in 1990.

 

[wahawk]

Let’s stink up yet another thread with this same boring argument by the same people

It’s been done to death…….in many threads

 

[Charchi]

In 2016 i think we would have won the flag if Smiss had of kicked the goal to give us a week off so no harm in going for 4 in a row. The failure was not starting the rebuild then, to top up by giving away too much draft capital. 2018 was an anomaly, we didn’t deserve to get a double chance and only got it because other teams kept losing around us and ultimately were shown up in the finals.

I think the hubs had a lot to do with relationships falling apart and ultimately I think Clarko stayed 2-3 years too long.

 

[wahawk]

Apparently Clarko will be at the player functions, just not the official club functions.

Understandably

Yep that's what i heard tonight. Will be there tmrw.

Good mail

He wont be

Seems he was

 

[Bedi]

Hawthorn didn't use a first round pick in 2011,2012,2013,2014,2016,2017,2018 at no stage did Clarkson ever show any interest in wanting to rebuild.

Instead we got the likes of Gibson, Hale, Burgoyne, Gunston, Lake, Smith, Poppy who were all instrumental in us winning 3 flags

 

[theiaofseed]

Instead we got the likes of Gibson, Hale, Burgoyne, Gunston, Lake, Smith, Poppy who were all instrumental in us winning 3 flags

Did you read the post I was replying to at all? If you want to play THAT game 16,17.18 added nothing to our team hands down some of the worst list management.

 

[Bedi]

Did you read the post I was replying to at all? If you want to play THAT game 2014,16,17.18 added nothing to our team hands down some of the worst list management.

There's a lot of luck involved with these things. Dew paid off, Patton didn't. Likewise Hale vs Vickery etc. But till 2016, it was a strategy that worked remarkably well for us, so i don't begrudge them one bit for giving it a shot. Also wouldn't Graeme Wright be more to blame for any perceived failures than Clarko? He seems to be doing alright at the moment in terms of list management

 

[Yardie]

There's a lot of luck involved with these things. Dew paid off, Patton didn't. Likewise Hale vs Vickery etc. But till 2016, it was a strategy that worked remarkably well for us, so i don't begrudge them one bit for giving it a shot. Also wouldn't Graeme Wright be more to blame for any perceived failures than Clarko? He seems to be doing alright at the moment in terms of list management

Wouldn't that say more to Clarkson having more influence was the problem?

 

[HairyO]

Wouldn't that say more to Clarkson having more influence was the problem?

We needed more failure for better draft picks eh?

 

[Yardie]

We needed more failure for better draft picks eh?

I'm commenting that Wright seems to be doing a better job at Collingwood without the interference of the coach. Similar to what is happening now at Hawthorn with MM being able to do his job without overbearing influence (cause there will be some) of the coach.

 

[NICE1]

I'm commenting that Wright seems to be doing a better job at Collingwood without the interference of the coach. Similar to what is happening now at Hawthorn with MM being able to do his job without overbearing influence (cause there will be some) of the coach.

Agree.

 

[HairyO]

I'm commenting that Wright seems to be doing a better job at Collingwood without the interference of the coach. Similar to what is happening now at Hawthorn with MM being able to do his job without overbearing influence (cause there will be some) of the coach.

Getting Daicos was quite the coup.

 

[peetoo]

Impressed the OP called in 2013

 

[Yardie]

Getting Daicos was quite the coup.

What are you going on about? It was quite obvious that once Fagan left the power balance at the club skewed to Clarkson. I have no problem with the path that we chose but once we started nominating players it felt like we couldn't back out of a bad deal to our own detriment. I put that all on Clarkson because you cannot fault he is loyal, but post 2016 being loyal was a hindrance.